Lockheed 'Stars': F-80, TO-1, F-94, T-33 (TO-2, TV-2), T-1 (T2V), and F-90

[ysi_maniac]

Well, I have not found a thread devoted to these beauties yet.
Am I wrong? If not, let's start! 

[sequoiaranger]

Here's one use for a T-33! I put it atop an F-101 and some swept wings from two Snark kits for a biplane-jet-torpedo-bomber. The T-33 tailpipe is the torpedo tube for launching/ejecting the torpedo out the back (facing forward) to slow it down before it hits the water.

[tanktastic43]

Love it.  A great model you've made there. Top job. 

[jcf]

Swept P-80.

Also don't forget the F-94: swing-wing and Vulcan test bed (as posted on your F-38 thread).

Jon

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Carlos,

You were right to create a new topic on this subject. 

Here are some additional links to the Wikipedia entries for:

Lockheed T-1 (T2V) SeaStar
Lockheed T-33 Shooting Star
Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star
Lockheed F-94 Starfire
Lockheed XF-90

[philp]

I am planning on redoing my Airfix F-80 into a Tuskegee craft from '46.  Still debating on whether to put it in the light grey the 2 sent to Italy used or stay with the NMF.  Course, it is gonna have the Red Tail.  I think wing tip tanks would also be ok. Still looking for 72nd markings for this (preferably from a P-51D).

[ysi_maniac]

^^^^^^^
That sounds great

BTW, speaking about swept P-80, what if a mix with P-80 fuselage (would need some lengthening) and F-86 wings and tail surfaces (I like Sabre's shape)? Fuselage could be taken from a T-33, but Hasegawa's 1/72 model is not easy to find.

[elmayerle]

Regarding the swept P-80, Lockheed used a single-seat version of the T-33/F-94A/B fuselage and, really, the back end of this one looks very much like that of the F-94C with the same swept horizontal tails.  That'd leave on the wing to scratchbuild since I don't believe, at first glance, it has as much sweep as the F-86 wing.

[ysi_maniac]

Hi Evan:
Trying to make an in service F-90. I think that its main problem was under power plant.
Which engine/s would you use?

Thanks!

[jcf]

Hi Evan:
Trying to make an in service F-90. I think that its main problem was under power plant.
Which engine/s would you use?

Thanks!

The F-90 had a serious weight problem, it was structurally overbuilt and used thick skins, this exacerbated the low power output of the J34 engine. Because the afterburning J34 wasn't ready the first F-90 used a non-afterburning version, the second aircraft had the later version and reached a level flight top speed of 668mph and Mach 1.12 in a shallow dive. The XF-90 project is considered to be one of the few missteps made by the Lockheed Skunk Works.

The problem with re-engining the F-90 is that the J34 was a small diameter engine, 24 in (0.61 m), and there was basically nothing else available at the time with a greater performance that would fit the same mounting envelope if you wanted to keep the aircraft a twin. Redesigning for a single engine would be theoretically possible, however the choices are limited with the J47 (or possibly the J73 as used by the XF-93A) being the likely US contender, Avon or Sapphire are Brit possibles. However, converting the F-90 to a single engine would require a massive redesign of the entire aft fuselage and even with the increased output of those engines the airframe weight problem remains.

So how about a scenario where Lockheed put the F-90 on a serious diet and Westinghouse are able to redesign the J34 to make its output competitive with other engines, thus solving the F-90's performance issues?

Jon

[ysi_maniac]

You mentioned J73, the ancestor of J79  I like this posibility. Also like Avon.

J-46 x 2 ?
J-57 ?

I do not mind to be radical, , even gore.

[dy031101]

What if Pratt & Whitney decided to further develop the J48 (or GE the J33) into their counterpart for the Russian VK-7 while the Skunk Works gave the F-90 a good serious diet, and the two crossed paths later on? 

[jcf]

You mentioned J73, the ancestor of J79  I like this posibility. Also like Avon.

J-46 x 2 ?
J-57 ?

I do not mind to be radical, , even gore.

Lockheed proposed the following developments of the F-90:
Model 190-33-02 - one Allison J33-A-29
Model 290-34-03 - two Westinghouse J46-WE-2 (which would have been problematic as the J46 proved to a be a major flop)
Model 390-35-02 - one GE J47-GE-21 (which makes J73 a definite contender)

Each of the proposals would have required a major redesign of the intakes and fuselage to accommodate the larger
airflow requirements and powerplant diameter. The USAF said no thanks and the XF-88 won the contest.

J57 is kinda big and the redesign for that engine would probably also seriously affect the internal space available for fuel tanks,
thus running counter to the design mission of long-range penetration fighter.

Jon

[elmayerle]

Re-engining the F-90?  For the timeframe, I'd probably go with a J65/Sapphire with afterburner as the most suitable choice.  J57 is considerably larger and heavier (albeit more adaptable) and likely wouldn't be a good fit.  Allow some room for growth and you could later replace teh J65 with a J79.

[ysi_maniac]

^^^^^
Love the J79 option