Jet Spitfire

[TsrJoe]

following a previous discussion on here and over on the the Airfix thread ...

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,17419.15.html

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/about6581.html&highlight=

... whilst sorting through some of my late dads model project folders i came across some doodles he'd drawn up after discussion with Eric Morgan re. the 'jet Spitfire' following the 2003 IPMS. Nationals.
There is a small mention in the files of 'jet Spitfire' designs circa 1944 under Joe Smith at Supermarine but unfortunately no descriptions or concept drawings seem to have survived. These studies in turn led to the jet Spiteful/Seafang (aka Attacker) ... but what if ... hence the speculative nature of the sketches.

... the starting point for the doodles below was to take a Spitfire drawing and overlay a Powerjets type engine upon it to see where would be a suitable installation point ...

possible ideas..

side intakes leading into a larger rear fuselage...

forward mounted underslung engine (a'la Yak 23, Martin H made one to this design)

nose intake with cylindrical fuselage (a'la MiG.15 or Fokker Mach Trainer)

an 'attacker' type fuselage and intakes with 'proper spitfire' wings



be fun to see where this could go and might be of inspiration to some ?

cheers, Joe

[PR19_Kit]

Joe,

You could really warp history and make a Supermarine S7 Schneider Trophy seaplane with a W2b in front of the cockpit with split exhausts a la Sea Hawk. 

Not sure I'd like to be flying the thing though!

[kitnut617]

I like your Attacker fuselage with Spitfire wings Joe, I would say it's the more logical one.  The 'Yak' style I think would pose a few problems, the Spit wing had a continuous spar

[Tojo633]

Joe has forwarded unfinished examples of his late Dad's models of these designs. I believe these drawings came about through collaboration between Joe senior and the late Eric Morgan formerly of Supermarine based on design concepts which were developed but no factual proof now exists.
It is my intention to complete these models to the best of my abilities as Joe Snr would have wanted them built.
As my own tribute to a fine decent gentleman, who I am quite sure is sorely missed by one and all.

Sandy

[Weaver]

Of them all, the blue ink one with a nose intake and a rear-set cockpit looks the most "Spitfire". However, I could see problems with the internal layout of such a design: the cockpit is where the engine would naturally be, and the logical argument in favour of putting the engine in the middle and the cockpit at the front is pretty overwhelming.

It should be straight-forward to put Spit wings onto a Frog Attacker, but I have to say that I HATE the Attacker's intakes and tail! How about a similar layout but using very "British" wing-root intakes?

[Tojo633]

Weaver

As mentionned in the text these sketches were produced based on conversatons between Joe's Dad and Eric Morgan and actual wartime developments which are now lost forever. When Joe gave me his Dad's models to finish we discussed the engine options and what we reckonned was that the engine type most likely to be used would be the same ones as the Gloster Whittle Jet prototype or similar. Personally I agree with your choice of design as being most "Spitfire" like, it is the more aerodynamic. The underslung layout I find a bit ugly to be honest, but is very Yak 15. We will see what comes out in the wash as they say.
Cheers
Sandy

[Martin H]

Joe.
Remember this little beast? the one I did about ten years ago 

[Tophe]

Congratulations and thanks, Joe and Martin...

[daniel_g]

Being a bit cynical, the beautiful Spitfire wing had already been superseded by the laminar flow wing in the Supermarine Spiteful.  Known in the Royal Navy's requirement as 'the jet machine of the Spiteful type', the Supermarine Attacker was pretty much the jet powered Spitfire

[Tojo633]

The designs being built are in fact wartime designs as per the information discussed between Joe's Dad and the late Eric Morgan of Supermarine. Therefore the attacker design will have standard spitfire wings. Although it would probably have looked nice with the 21/22/24 wing mmmmmmmmmmmmm another idea.
From what has transpired there were designs for Jet Spitfire concepts but no drawings or info now exists, the sketches were developed as a result of the interaction between Joe Snr and Eric Morgan. I will post the pics of these models soon once I have slapped some camouflage on them, all models originally started by Joe Snr, but the Attacker effort will be my own. As mentionned I am trying to finish these as a tribute to Joes Dad, missed by many.
Sandy

[Tojo633]

Here as the Jet Spitfires WIP,
The Attacker one is the Frog/Novo fuselage mated to Airfix Spitfire 9 wings, the wings actually suit it strangely enough. Hopefully get a better picture at a later date.
Other 2 jet Spitfires are the ones started by Joe's Dad, I have added U/c and tail wings, and slapped on a quick camouflage coat. Again WIP but maybe get them finished fot the Glasgow show, as they say stay tuned.
Sandy

[Mossie]

what we reckonned was that the engine type most likely to be used would be the same ones as the Gloster Whittle Jet prototype or similar.

I was thinking that when I noticed the second aircraft in the pic with the Attacker/Spit combo, almost missed it.  Seems to be the logical choice.  Like Yourself & Weaver, I like the through intake on the standard spit the most from an aesthetic standpoint & I think a bubble top would suit that even more.  Not to take away from Joe Senior's designs, just throwing my tuppence worth in!

[NARSES2]

As I'm currently beavering away at my Supermarine 327 I was promted that this might be an ideal candidate for jet engines ? Supermarine's answer to the Meteor ?

[kitnut617]

That 'Attacker' one is really what I've been thinking about since the first time I saw it here and my thoughts have been that the tail group would more likely be a Spiteful's.  The Attacker has some very large tailplanes ----

The Mig looking one doesn't really do it for me 'cause it looks like -- well, a Mig, even though it might very well be the easiest way to go although with a Metro-Vick not a Whittle.  The one which is basically a Spit with the engine behind the cockpit I don't think would've worked very well. it would need some serious counter-weight up in the nose where I don't think a group of 4 or 6 cannon would be sufficient.  It would have a lot of dead weight being dragged around.

Edit: Thinking about the 'Mig' styled one, what if the engine was raised higher in the fuselage and has bifucated exhaust which exited at the trailing edge of the wing root, again using a Metro-Vick.

My 10 cents worth but I do like what you're doing.

Robert

[TsrJoe]

a brilliantly realised model by Gordon over on the 'let it snow' GB. 

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,27556.0/highlight,jet+spitfire.html