Whiffs found surfing

[Old Wombat]

So long as you can still grow things like Rape you'll be able to run diesel engines no problem. You can crush the stuff, strain the lumpy bits out and most disels will run on it.

Paul Harrison

Rapeseed is less common, now, but the cultivar canola is very common. Rapeseed still grows feral down in South East South Australia, where I (mostly) grew up, but canola has become a major cash crop.

Either/or is good for biodiesel production & anything that produces sugar can be used to make alcohol which is also a decent fuel. However, you'd want to learn how to grow it in intensive hydroponic facilities using waste from the food crops you'll want to be growing in the arable land in the post-apocalyptic environment, I would suggest.

[Old Wombat]

What about coal dust?

You'd want to be living in the right areas & have the facilities & power (man/otherwise), & (I'm fairly sure) the engines need to be pretty specific to use it.

Although, maybe, it could be a biodiesel additive?

[Green Dragon]

Loads of fields of Rapeseed/Canola around Edinburgh here in Scotland, not sure of the variety though. I think the use of coal dust (in a slurry with water) was prototyped including a gas turbine powered car
in America (think it was oldesmobile or pontiac?) and I think they tried it to fuel a power station somewhere in Europe but I'm not too sure. Alexander Lippisch's P.13 was supposed to run on coal dust if they'd built it.

Paul Harrison

[zenrat]

There's always EXTERNAL combustion.  You can fire a boiler with all sorts of fuels.

[NARSES2]

The steel industry started to inject pulverised coal into blast furnaces in the 1970's , although the method was invented sometime in the 19th Century. Initially it was to replace oil injection but then it was increasingly used to reduce the amount of more expensive coke required per tonne of iron produced. There is however a maximum ratio that you can use per tonne of coke used, but I'll be b'd if I can remember what it is, that's if I ever knew 

[kitnut617]

The book I have called 'Turbojet, The History and Development 1930-1960, Vol.1' which covers British and German jet turbines, says the German engines were designed to run on diesel fuel and later to run on straight crude oil. The crude though had to be heated before it became viscous enough. This was because the Germans were planning on powering some of their big tank designs on turbojets.

[NARSES2]

The crude though had to be heated before it became viscous enough.

That could get complicated given the many different types of crude all of which have different characteristics ? Or am I missing something ?

[kitnut617]

The crude though had to be heated before it became viscous enough.

That could get complicated given the many different types of crude all of which have different characteristics ? Or am I missing something ?

I know what you mean, but the book doesn't elaborate on it, just says the engines had to use all sorts as a fuel source. Given the fact the Germans fuel producing facilities were all bombed to poo-poo ---

[Rheged]

I had a go at a backstory for the coal fired aircraft some time ago:-  https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=43352.msg757316#msg757316   My usual offer still stands; if anyone wants to make a model to fit the text, please go ahead!!

[PR19_Kit]

The book I have called 'Turbojet, The History and Development 1930-1960, Vol.1' which covers British and German jet turbines, says the German engines were designed to run on diesel fuel and later to run on straight crude oil. The crude though had to be heated before it became viscous enough. This was because the Germans were planning on powering some of their big tank designs on turbojets.

Broadening the thread into railways, the Union Pacific Railroad in the USA ran a fleet of gas turbine powered locos in the 60s that originally ran on Bunker C fuel oil, cheaper but much thicker than normal diesel fuel. This needed heating coils in the fuel tanks to raise the temp to 200C before it became liquid enough to use.

Later they switched to No. 6 oil, which was also pretty thick, but less soot and pollution producing.

In more modern times, the APT-E that I worked on used standard diesel fuel for its turbines, so we didn't need heating coils etc.

[Scotaidh]

The book I have called 'Turbojet, The History and Development 1930-1960, Vol.1' which covers British and German jet turbines, says the German engines were designed to run on diesel fuel and later to run on straight crude oil. The crude though had to be heated before it became viscous enough. This was because the Germans were planning on powering some of their big tank designs on turbojets.

Broadening the thread into railways, the Union Pacific Railroad in the USA ran a fleet of gas turbine powered locos in the 60s that originally ran on Bunker C fuel oil, cheaper but much thicker than normal diesel fuel. This needed heating coils in the fuel tanks to raise the temp to 200C before it became liquid enough to use.

Later they switched to No. 6 oil, which was also pretty thick, but less soot and pollution producing.

In more modern times, the APT-E that I worked on used standard diesel fuel for its turbines, so we didn't need heating coils etc.

I don't know if you guys have seen Ken Shockley's 'Shockwave', a jet truck

but he ran that on regular diesel, or so I'm told. 


(Sadly, the truck is no more, after a problem with the braking chutes - only one deployed, causing an unplanned departure from the runway.  The truck rolled many, many times through a bean field, and was totalled.  The driver was OK due to the roll cage, but the truck was toast.)

I work with a block who used to head a maintainance team for United Airlines.  According to him, turbine engines will run on almost any fuel thin enough to get through the injectors.  I asked him about powdered coal - he didn't know, hadn't heard of it, but I imagine that with today's ceramic blades, particulate-related erosion wouldn't be an issue.

[zenrat]

Years ago I read about variable compression engines (possibly soviet, possibly fitted to tracked tractors) which, provided you adjusted them correctly, would run on a wide range of fuels including creosote.
Not sure if they were spark or compression ignition.

[perttime]

There's been military engines that aren't too particular about what flammable liquid you feed them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multifuel#Military_multifuel_engines

"US M35 ​2 1⁄2-ton and M54 5-ton trucks built between 1963 and 1970 ... was able to use different fuels without preparation. Its primary fuel was Diesel #1, #2, or AP, but 70% to 90% of other fuels could be mixed with diesel
...
... a wide range of Russian military vehicles employ multifuel engines, such as the T-72 tank (multifuel diesel) and the T-80 (multifuel gas turbine).
"

[Scotaidh]

There's been military engines that aren't too particular about what flammable liquid you feed them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multifuel#Military_multifuel_engines

"US M35 ​2 1⁄2-ton and M54 5-ton trucks built between 1963 and 1970 ... was able to use different fuels without preparation. Its primary fuel was Diesel #1, #2, or AP, but 70% to 90% of other fuels could be mixed with diesel
...
... a wide range of Russian military vehicles employ multifuel engines, such as the T-72 tank (multifuel diesel) and the T-80 (multifuel gas turbine).
"

IIRC, the Chieftain tank engine was supposed to be multi-fuel capable.

[NARSES2]

Years ago I read about variable compression engines (possibly soviet, possibly fitted to tracked tractors) which, provided you adjusted them correctly, would run on a wide range of fuels including creosote.
Not sure if they were spark or compression ignition.

I think that's the key and you can just see a fraught/hectic/chaotic situation and the squadie going "now where did I put that instruction manual ?"

Yet another of the many things in life that work well in theory and even in training but tend to fall at the first hurdle of real life.