British Missiles

DarrenP · August 20, 2009, 01:11:24 AM

The UK has produced some different systems over the years some of which were developed further and some not. I remember seeing sugestions of a surface launched seaeagle and have seen some talk of surface launched sea skua.
Then you have Tigercat essentially a land version of Seacat so was there a land version of sea wolf or conversley a maritime version of raiper?

Weaver · August 20, 2009, 01:36:28 AM

The Kuwaiti navy actually has some surface-launched Sea Skuas on a series of VERY small patrol boats.

Surface-launched Sea Eagle was proposed, but Harpoon was chosen instead.

I don't know of Rapier being offered for naval use: the original version only had a contact "hit-to-kill" fuse, so it would have had limited effectiveness against a small difficult target like a sea-skimmer.

I don't know of a land-based Sea Wolf. The critical feature of Sea Wolf is not the visible bits, i.e. the radar and launchers, but the LARGE computers neccessary (with late 1960s tech) to do fully automatic anti-missile engagements.

A land-based Sea Dart system was offered several times, both as a general Bloodhound replacement and as a specific air-defence system for the Falklands. There are pictures in BSP-4 Hypersonics and Missiles: the proposed launcher had four containers on a training and elevating mount.

Zen · August 20, 2009, 03:39:59 AM

Yes there was a Land Wolf proposal.

Rapier is'nt really a good idea for shipbaord use, the system need marinisation for starters.

Hobbes · August 20, 2009, 08:38:35 AM

There was also the CF.299 proposal for an air-launched long-range missile based on Sea Dart (with larger fins, for some reason).

pyro-manic · August 20, 2009, 12:34:49 PM

There's the proposed CAMM - Common Anti-air Modular Missile - based on the ASRAAM that would take over the role of Sea Wolf, ESSM, Rapier etc.

Weaver · August 27, 2009, 04:21:10 AM

Mossie posted this link on the Matra pod thread, but by coincidence, it has a drawing of the proposed SP Tigercat system mentioned in BSP4. This drawing is somewhat different to the one in the book.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1959/1959%20-%202359.html

DarrenP · October 28, 2009, 03:56:30 AM

Has anyone any pics/ Links of the Ship launched Sea Eagle/ Sea Skua?

Weaver · October 28, 2009, 06:22:33 AM

Quote from: DarrenP on October 28, 2009, 03:56:30 AM
Has anyone any pics/ Links of the Ship launched Sea Eagle/ Sea Skua?

Not got time to look now, but Kuwait has some tiny FPBs with surface-launched Sea Skua on them, so that would be the way to find a pic. IIRC, they're short cylinders stacked in vertical pairs.

Jschmus · October 30, 2009, 12:53:59 PM

I found this on the Naval Technology site:

It's part of the article on the Um Al Maradim Class (Combattante I) Fast Attack Craft:

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/combattante/

Weaver · October 30, 2009, 01:13:38 PM

That's the puppy - cheers Jschmus!

Something to note in the article: Mistral SAM range = 5km, Sea Skua range = 15km. This is why Sea Skua toting helos can slaughter FPBs.

pyro-manic · November 10, 2009, 04:37:16 PM

Does anyone have a picture of Sea Cat installation on the General Belgrano? Looking for info for a future project.

Jschmus · November 11, 2009, 09:14:07 AM

Quote from: pyro-manic on November 10, 2009, 04:37:16 PM
Does anyone have a picture of Sea Cat installation on the General Belgrano? Looking for info for a future project.

I'm having trouble locating clear photos, but the launchers appear to have been fitted alongside the second funnel.

Correction: On the militaryphotos.net forum, I found a "Bluffer's Guide" to the Falklands, posted by Planeman, who used to be fairly active over here, I think.

I cropped out the parts of the artwork that pertained to the ship's other weapons systems.

Weaver · November 11, 2009, 10:29:46 AM

I think I have a picture that shows how high those Seacats are: I'll have a look when I get home.

Edit: found the same picture on the internet:

Here's a blow up of the left side of the superstructure (as you look at it). The Seacat launcher can be seen pointing straight up, with no missiles on it, on the deep "balcony" level with the lower set of bridge windows:

pyro-manic · November 11, 2009, 05:27:26 PM

Good grief. And here was me expecting them to be in place of a pair of the secondaries or something. Thanks for that!

Any ideas about what the directors looked like? I can fudge something, but it'd be helpful to know roughly what to aim for...

Weaver · November 11, 2009, 07:50:50 PM

Article on the building of an awesome 1/50th scale R/C Belgrano here, including excellent close-ups of the Seacats:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/ar/cl/50-belgrano-camne/belgrano-01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/ar/cl/50-belgrano-camne/modelwarships-review.html&usg=__wACTrEOPitFfSa_YfADt7HS9n40=&h=827&w=600&sz=77&hl=en&start=31&sig2=hOpsmOSNVqnfNa90SZSxdw&um=1&tbnid=hQZxNKHQlkLCoM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgeneral%2Bbelgrano%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7FUJC_en-GB%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20%26um%3D1&ei=G4T7SrLgMIy14QaJ0tnXAw

Given the amount of research these guys did, I doubt they got it wrong.

Re the directors, Seacat ws integrated with an extraordinary numb er of different fire-control systems during it's life, and I can't find which one was fitted to the Belgrano. On the model pics above, there's a pedestal-mounted device above and slightly forward of the launchers (either side of the dish-shaped f/c radar) wich looks like it might be an optical director of some sort, but it doesn't correspond to any Seacat director that I'm familiar with.