What if

Hot Research Topics => Aircraft, Armor, Weapons and Ships by Topic => Topic started by: Nick on June 15, 2006, 02:35:31 PM

Title: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Nick on June 15, 2006, 02:35:31 PM
I work at a tourist attraction in London and inevitably get treated as a walking talking signboard. My stock answer to time related questions seems to be 'About 15 minutes', whether it's waiting times to get in or how long it takes to get somewhere or how old the Queen is....

Next door we have a pier served by different companies and a lot of people ask where they catch the boat rides from to go along the river...

Them: "Where is the Big Bus River Cruise?"
Us:     "On the water".
;)

Today I had a mental image of a red Routemaster double decker bus with side floats chugging along the Thames with loads of tourists staring out of the window!

Nick B)  
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: The Rat on June 15, 2006, 05:59:45 PM
QuoteToday I had a mental image of a red Routemaster double decker bus with side floats chugging along the Thames with loads of tourists staring out of the window!
Go ahead and whiff that sucker! Here in Toronto we have recently started what they call Hippo boats, which are amphibious vehicles that hold maybe a couple of dozen tourists. After running them around town they drive into the water for a tour of the harbour. Boston has been doing the same thing with their Duck boats for decades. So try putting a hull on a double decker, outriggers, and open the top deck for both viewing and safety (easier egress)!  :cheers:  
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: NARSES2 on June 16, 2006, 03:36:31 AM
Similar thing in London with the DUCK Tours plus I did one in Honolulu as well. I wonder how many of those old DUCKW's are left out there ?
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Captain Canada on June 16, 2006, 07:09:12 AM
Geez Nick, for a guy who works at a tourist attraction you're not very helpful ! Kinda like my buddy who worked in retail, he said you could always tell when a customer had a question from 20 paces...just enough time to duck into another aisle and disappear !

They have the same thing in Halifax. Pretty cool ride as you get a good look at the Navy ships tied up at the base. Which they usually are, as the Navy can't afford fuel. The money allocated to them for fuel has been diverted to the Governor General for her private jet.

Nice idea, Nick...go for it ! And after you're taken some piccies of it, you can re-model it into a 'pressed into servise' variant with some AA guns etc.......

;)
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Nick on June 16, 2006, 01:24:42 PM
The yellow Duck Tours have at least 3 DUKWs and I have seen at least 1 more privately owned up in the Lake District plus a couple in museums.

In Montreal years ago they had yellow schoolbuses that gave tourist rides around the city and then went for a swim.

BTW, "15 minutes" is the average answer and not my only answer. Sometimes I up it to "20 minutes" or even "25 minutes"! :P

Nick  B)  
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Martin H on June 16, 2006, 03:52:21 PM
theres quite a few Dukw's on the MV (military vechicle) scene in the UK, its not uncommon to see one or two in the line up at local rallies up and down the country.

The ones on the tour work in london are very heavily modified, not only is the body work messed with, they have new modern engines and brakes, and carry plenty of safty gear for when their in the water.
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: RotorheadTX on September 29, 2007, 07:37:19 AM
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?n...rticle&sid=1001 (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1001)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defensereview.com%2Fstories%2Fausawintersymposium2007%2FLockheed%2520Martin%2520Amphibious%2520Combat%2520Craft%2520Expeditionary%2520Vehicle_1%2FDSC02733.JPG&hash=a1027efa16a61bbd4b67f73b62a89724b6f17414)
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: GTX on March 22, 2008, 02:48:16 PM
Hi folks,

Something I picked up a while ago at Pacific 2008, but only just got around to looking at - Lockheed Martin and Gibbs Technologies have agreed to develop a family of high speed amphibious vehicles designed specifically for military operations.  Some of the ideas are intriguing:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gibbslockheedamphibians.com%2Fhires%2FCONCEPT%2520ACC-R%2520-%2520WATER.jpg&hash=68fb6d086146f244e08f21dd4c695f4d4fb26538)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gibbslockheedamphibians.com%2Fhires%2FCONCEPT%2520-%2520ACC-R%2520-%2520LAND.jpg&hash=ea40ad4166f0c5857c3f8393426815981b30b3d4)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gibbslockheedamphibians.com%2Fassets%2Facc-r-spec.gif&hash=5a58e2c8769543d16b0d52aa1a3f6c5e78166e66)

See here (http://www.gibbslockheedamphibians.com/) for more info, including full details of the idea shown and others.

Regards,

Greg

Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Mossie on March 22, 2008, 06:05:33 PM
The ACC-R version you've posted looks very much like a modern DUKW.  The technology has been around for years, amphibious vehicles like the DUKW & Stalwart having seen service some time ago.  It just depends on they fit into the military planners schemes as to how well these designs will take off, amphibious ops seem to come & go like fashion.
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Research on November 08, 2008, 11:22:53 AM
I am new to this forum and was wondering if anybody else here has built the Bronco 1/35th scale land wasser schlepper that I am assembling now. I have some thoughts that it is dimensionally off in places.
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on November 08, 2008, 12:54:04 PM
I would like to introduce you to Ray Mehlberger (aka 'Research') he is here because of me.  So please treat him nice.  Ray has been modeling for a long time and you may have encountered some of his kit reviews on Cybermodeler and Internet Modeler. 

I had suspicions that the HobbyBoss and Bronco kits might have been from the same mold but Terry Ashley on PMMS has an image of both hulls for comparison and that pretty much takes care of that argument in one fell swoop.  Here is a link to the Land-Wasser-Schlepper (LWS) kit comparison (between Bronco kit #CB-35015 and Hobby Boss Kit No. 82430) (http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/hobbyboss/hb82430d05.html)

PMMS Bronco LWS kit review (http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/bronco/cb35015.html)

PMMS HobbyBoss LWS kit review (http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/hobbyboss/hb82430.html)

From the looks of the hulls, it would be interesting to see what it would look like with the suspension components and track from an American or British armored vehicle.  Maybe fit it with the suspension and tracks from a Centurion or a Sherman to give it a new lease on life.  I rather prefer the longer hull of the Bronco kit over the HobbyBoss kit since it provides a more pronounced bow shape with that slight uplift but that is just me and my personal quirks talking.  That boat shape hull certainly begs for a good WHIF treatment.  It certainly has the potential for conversion to something interesting that could involve fishing poles, bait bucket, and a tackle box. 
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: GTX on November 08, 2008, 01:16:03 PM
I wouldn't mind one of these (either kit) to modify as an amphibious assault transport.  I'm thinking o fitting a turret from either the PzKpfw I or PzKpfw II.

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Daryl J. on November 09, 2008, 12:39:36 AM
Ray,

Welcome, firstly.   This is a jolly lot with imaginations and skills that are harnessed and put to good use. 

Quite frankly, I'd love a LWS, preferrably from Bronco vice HB, to make a little *more* off.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:     



Daryl J., who does not fit on a V-Rod Muscle  :banghead:
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Maverick on November 09, 2008, 12:38:05 PM
"Big Ray from Ioway", welcome aboard Ray.

The LWS looks like a wonderful ship, I'm keen to head down Greg (GTX's) path, but go for a gunboat...

Regards,

Mav
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 08, 2008, 04:52:54 PM
Howzabout mounting the M55 GMC (aka "Quad Fifty") in the back of the DUKW?  Floating air defender and convoy protector. 
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Maverick on December 08, 2008, 05:00:51 PM
Nifty idea Jeffry.  I know Italeri put out a kit with a 105 on the back, so a Maxon seems eminently doable.

Regards,

Mav
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 08, 2008, 05:12:37 PM
Quote from: Maverick on December 08, 2008, 05:00:51 PMNifty idea Jeffry.  I know Italeri put out a kit with a 105 on the back, so a Maxon seems eminently doable.

At least you could fire the M55 GMC from the cargo bed of the DUKW, something that was not possible with the 105mm howitzer unless you were planning on tearing apart your ride and watching it sink on you.  Not sure how stable the DUKW would be with that Quad Fifty mounted in the back and firing while on the water but it would certainly look interesting as a build model.  Would also be a good way to use the parts from the AFV Club M35 Gun Truck kit since it is missing the wheeled portion of the mount. 
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Maverick on December 08, 2008, 08:20:54 PM
I figured the 105 couldn't be fired.  I'm assuming it was a transport thing, but how would they have gotten it out once they got onto dry land?

Regards,

Mav
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 08, 2008, 10:55:42 PM
Quote from: Maverick on December 08, 2008, 08:20:54 PMI figured the 105 couldn't be fired.  I'm assuming it was a transport thing, but how would they have gotten it out once they got onto dry land?

You are one of the few that got that part right.  Most people tend to overlook the obvious and assume that the 105mm howitzer in the back of the DUKW was going to be used for the final assault preparatory fires before they hit the beach.  Besides sinking the DUKW the guy driving the vehicle would be suffering from concussion and flash burns which would be a moot point as the vehicle sank beneath his feet.  But all too often that part seems to be overlooked. 

As far as debarking the piece from the cargo bed that was performed by a truck mounted crane or a derrick of some kind that was brought ashore or built after getting ashore.  However it was done, it was not a fast process and probably worsened under combat conditions.
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Maverick on December 08, 2008, 11:13:07 PM
Ah ok, I wasn't aware of the derrick's presence on the vehicle.  Sounds like a trying time, especially if on an unfriendly beach.

Regards,

Mav
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: PanzerWulff on December 09, 2008, 02:12:55 AM
I had read that the marines used them from the bed on Okinawa (or was it saipan???) during the rainy season,where the torrential rain made the DUKW and LVT the only vehicles able to really move in the quagmires that resulted  :blink: :huh: :blink: :huh:
"Panzer"
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 09, 2008, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: PanzerWulff on December 09, 2008, 02:12:55 AMI had read that the marines used them from the bed on Okinawa (or was it saipan???) during the rainy season,where the torrential rain made the DUKW and LVT the only vehicles able to really move in the quagmires that resulted  :blink: :huh: :blink: :huh:"Panzer"

Chris,

The M1/M101 105mm Howitzer produces enough recoil force to pretty much preclude firing it from the bed of a truck or DUKW which is still a 2.5t truck and the artillery piece in the back would have crushed the suspension on land with the recoil during firing.  The only thing that secured the piece to the vehicle was rope to keep it in place during transit.  The trails and spades overhung the back of the vehicle.  Anything stronger than a fart would have sent the piece crashing through the deck of the cargo bed when it recoiled. 

The LVT would have been crowded as well, it was a tight fit just getting a jeep into one of those things.  Now if they were using the 75mm Pack Howitzer for this it might be possible as the charges are smaller, the piece much lighter and the recoil might have been acceptable for the DUKW and LVT but I would have to see a picture of the event before I would believe it to be possible. 
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: PanzerWulff on December 09, 2008, 04:54:56 PM
Ok I looked it up and they had LVT's with 75mm howitzers mounted in a turret,and some Dukw's had a "Light antitank gun mounted fireing over the drivers position" no mention as to what the gun was
"Panzer"
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 09, 2008, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: PanzerWulff on December 09, 2008, 04:54:56 PMOk I looked it up and they had LVT's with 75mm howitzers mounted in a turret,and some Dukw's had a "Light antitank gun mounted fireing over the drivers position" no mention as to what the gun was"Panzer"

Probably the 37mm ATG which was also mounted in a turret on some LVTA.  Towed 37mm would still be interesting to see in a position to be fired from the back of a DUKW or 2.5t GMC there would be enough room but I would certainly hope the barrel was pointed to the rear and not over the cab of the vehicle. 
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: rallymodeller on December 09, 2008, 09:18:22 PM
You were wondering about how they got the 105mm Howitzer on a DUKW?

Like this:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv426%2FRallymodeller%2FMiscellaneous%2FDUKWw105.jpg&hash=f0fc89247fd5b9325c11b7f2403ccbb834993e77)

An A-frame jib could be mounted on teh back of any DUKW. So there.

And just to whet your Whiffing appetite: how about a dual-DUKW "aircraft carrier"?
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv426%2FRallymodeller%2FMiscellaneous%2Funtitled.jpg&hash=b2fbdf49e5c32069ed5fefbe4d9473dd4ff34082)

Scanned in from DUKW In Action (I have it in PDF format)
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: rallymodeller on December 09, 2008, 09:23:25 PM
Quote from: PanzerWulff on December 09, 2008, 04:54:56 PM
Ok I looked it up and they had LVT's with 75mm howitzers mounted in a turret,and some Dukw's had a "Light antitank gun mounted fireing over the drivers position" no mention as to what the gun was
"Panzer"

According to AMTRAK In Action[/url] it was the 37mm turret from an M5A1 Stuart light tank. The 75mm howitzer was for breaching beach defenses (not anti-tank) and was mounted in a turret from the M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage.
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Weaver on December 10, 2008, 09:30:33 AM
This is THE place to go for info on amphibious vehicles:

http://www.amphibiousvehicle.net/

Lots of good links too.
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: GTX on January 09, 2009, 07:59:03 PM
Quote from: GTX on November 08, 2008, 01:16:03 PM
I wouldn't mind one of these (either kit) to modify as an amphibious assault transport.  I'm thinking o fitting a turret from either the PzKpfw I or PzKpfw II.

Regards,

Greg

Remember this idea - here's a rough profile:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2F6506aeff.jpg&hash=c6f552f130a525b5d932eb187c7739b99ad68ae9)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Maverick on January 09, 2009, 11:59:52 PM
Nifty stuff Greg, I think the LWS is a beauty for a gunboat type vessel.

Regards,

Mav
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: GTX on January 10, 2009, 10:08:24 AM
Thanks - I was also thinking of some sort of amphibious landing craft - it was designed to tow landing craft so maybe have it also offer some fire support as well for a Op. Sealion landing (though up-armouring may be in order).

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on February 22, 2009, 08:05:28 PM
Looks like the UK was inspired by the German LWS to develop and test the Argosy series of tracked amphibious carriers. (http://www.jedsite.info/fulltrack-alpha/alpha/argosy_series/argosy-series.html)  This is a vehicle that was until today unknown to me.  Found it while reviewing the alpha listings on the JED Site. (http://www.jedsite.info/content/jed1.html) 
Title: Re: Wheeled and Tracked Amphibious Vehicles
Post by: puddingwrestler on February 27, 2009, 12:28:57 PM
For the ultimate in amphibious vehicles, check out the Monster Garage Pontoon Party Bus!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hollywood-diecast.com%2Fmonster%2520garage%2520bus%2520pontoon.jpg&hash=52596972f27260d54e07e616fb683e9c69461e5c)

Google was not very forthcoming on the images front, so I had troble finding pics of it in operation...

Here's a link to a gallery of pics (http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.skoolie.net/gallery/d/5726-6/8_7_hzoom.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.skoolie.net/gallery/v/Skoolies/MG_SchoolBus/&usg=__l3QH0FGYO7gs9p_FLMYgYBz5Mqg=&h=107&w=150&sz=6&hl=en&start=30&tbnid=tE-64UBm0Dif8M:&tbnh=68&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmonster%2Bgarage%2Bpontoon%2Bbus%26start%3D18%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN) including build up screen caps and the bus in action.

So you see, the big red double decker cruising down the thames is not such a silly idea! Except that the pontoon party bus can't actually carry passengers when in bus mode... but with a double decker now...