What if

GROUP BUILDS => 2008 Group Builds => The Knackers Yard => Flying Sorcery GB => Topic started by: nev on May 01, 2008, 08:24:15 AM

Title: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: nev on May 01, 2008, 08:24:15 AM
OK, really making progress with this one, although not a lot to show other than the cockpit.

The idea for this originally came from one of the BSP books which had the original Vulcan design in anti-flash white on it, a design which looked a little like the Arado E.555

So, What If the Arado design team ended up in British hands at the end of the war?  Bringing with them plans for a long-range, high-altitude jet bomber?  Britain takes the concept and applies the "Mosquito" philosophy of no armament for self-defence - speed and altitude are its protection.

So here are the pics, Baz style.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2FIP1.jpg&hash=97acab6480fbb7a5f0c592f586fea081421a7635)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2FIP2.jpg&hash=91ad196054e84cde4cf61474bd58bdca2a3db3a3)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2FIP3.jpg&hash=0a042d2e2649e539db1c07bd68092e315ffe4d1d)
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Mossie on May 01, 2008, 11:49:02 AM
Heck, cooking on gas Nev!  Looks like it fell together.  Well spotted with the early Vulcan design, I wouldn't have thought of that!
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Patrick H on May 01, 2008, 12:04:17 PM
Looking good Nev
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on May 01, 2008, 04:24:02 PM
Mossie, you mention Vulcan and I have this image of that Arado wing and rear fuselage section mated up with the forward fuselage of a Vulcan. 

Nev, you could add a couple of additional camera ports to portray the vertical cameras which a high altitude reconnaissance aircraft would use to acquire area and mapping coverage of a target.  Vertical camera ports in side by side or staggered mountings would provide the stero pair images that are necessary for detailed interpretation and analysis of a target. 
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: nev on May 01, 2008, 11:45:49 PM
Will do - I just drilled some random holes!  :lol:
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Aircav on May 02, 2008, 12:14:20 AM
Looking good Nev  :thumbsup: ;D
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: nev on May 02, 2008, 03:00:07 AM
Thanks Steve - this is the kit you tracked down for me btw  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: lancer on May 02, 2008, 01:43:38 PM
This is looking very good. I'll be watchnig this one with interes Nev.
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: BlackOps on May 02, 2008, 09:27:37 PM
Very nice idea, looks like your off to a great start!

I really like the shape of this, good choice.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: nev on May 12, 2008, 09:44:50 AM
Well, go the airbrush out this weekend - given my limited airbrush skills/experience, maybe airbrushing acrylics on the hottest day of the year using a 0.3mm nozzle wasn't the best idea  :banghead:

Anyway, had an attempt at pre-shading, just to see how it looked

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2FIP4.jpg&hash=75c2afb1aacef8c468ff826bfe72a6fc9f7dc140)

Then underneath with PRU Blue, above with Medium Sea Grey.  Pre-shading has pretty much disappeared, but there is a very subtle variation in tone visible in the grey which isn't visible in these pics

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2FIP5.jpg&hash=e497e3ed637e8a8559e0e449296a19649c08bc5b)

I thought Xtracrylics were meant to be gloss btw?  So how come mine went on matt?

Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: sotoolslinger on May 12, 2008, 03:48:09 PM
That is frakkin cool.  :thumbsup:Slick work.
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Hobbes on May 13, 2008, 12:02:32 AM
The glossiness also depends on the paint:thinner ratio. IIRC if you add too much thinner, the paint goes matt. (Or was it the other way round? )
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: nev on May 13, 2008, 12:34:45 AM
QuoteI think it depends on what it's been primed with.  Or maybe needs a second coat?

Halfords Grey Primer.  And it had 2 coats - granted 1 after the other, given that it dried almost instantaneously

QuoteThe glossiness also depends on the paint:thinner ratio. IIRC if you add too much thinner, the paint goes matt. (Or was it the other way round? )

50:50 with DI Water
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: nev on May 23, 2008, 01:15:40 AM
Decalling has commenced

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2FIP7.jpg&hash=dd24ed3f0975ef19fb5089b0e46bd20bc2c2bd2e)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2FIP6.jpg&hash=d8a10c4fa02e0ed7cce146bb8c1c1327f089b7cd)

Now I'm just waiting on some white serials from Trev ;)
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Mossie on May 23, 2008, 04:40:04 AM
Canberra style colours, looking good!
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Aircav on May 23, 2008, 04:53:17 AM
 :thumbsup: Nice  ;D
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: GTX on May 23, 2008, 12:17:59 PM
Keep those pics coming!!!

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: lancer on May 24, 2008, 12:19:46 PM
Damm, that looks good!! Nice work Nev..
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: nev on June 06, 2008, 05:53:24 AM
The last days of WW2 in Europe saw a race between the major powers to capture as many of Germanys leading scientists as possible.  At the same time, there was a race within Germany as those leading scientists, so highly sought, tried to desperately escape the advancing Russian army and let themselves be captured by the British and Americans - all the while trying to evade the SS & Gestapo, who, drunk on the Nazi martyrdom complex were eagerly hanging anyone who they suspected of defeatist behaviour.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2Ffinal1.jpg&hash=a74daa27e7a743453fd6cc31c8dd818575b6c541)

Amongst these prized Scientists were the designers and engineers of the Arado company.  Luckily for them, they managed to find themselves in the posession of the British at wars end and were spirited off to Blighty where the UK government hoped to take advantage of their expertise. 

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2Ffinal2.jpg&hash=4a3febe202c41dbc80ff885d97bae40cc54a7ecc)

Perhaps the most tantalising work that they revealed to the British was a design known internally as project E.555, a giant jet-powered gull-winged delta, intended to strike mainland America.  Cancelled by the RLM in 1944, Arado had appealled directly to Hitler, aware of his love of "super-weapons" which he believed would turn the war back in Germanys favour.  Hitler, naturally, gave them permisssion to carry on.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2Ffinal3.jpg&hash=12ca726c4c0bec934949ea94847b63fcdf30746a)

Although by Wars end the aircraft had not flown, Arado had done extensive wind tunnel testing, and flown several small scale models to investigate the design.  All this knowledge was handed to the British on a plate.  The Arado team were sent to Avro company, where Roy Chadwick was fascinated by their work.  Instructed by the British government to bring the Arado design to fruition, initially for scientific purposes, the ambition and quality of the design - much more advanced aerodynamically than the Canberra that was just entering service - soon led to plans for the aircraft to be put into production, with the initial mark being the B.1 bomber variant.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2Ffinal4.jpg&hash=ee4dcc48a81ca605de25f3883b6366e8f3ab5217)

Given the name "Achilles" the aircraft was stripped of the defensive armament of the original German design, relying on its speed and ceiling for protection from enemy fighters.  The aircraft was always meant to be replaced by the V-Bombers in the Nuclear Detterent role, but the RAF did not want to see the high-speed, high-altitude Achilles go to waste, so they were converted to the Recon role under the designation PR2, seeing service into the early 60s.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2Ffinal5.jpg&hash=3f920ff62c1e7b4ca183deaf28fb81b23cb8c2bf)

The model is the Revell 1/72 Arado E.555, kindly supplied by Aircav a few years ago.  Decals are from the MA Canberra sheets.  Serials are kindly via Howard of Effingham



Avro Achilles PR2, "C" Flight, 231 OCU, RAF Bassingbourne, 1958


(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi182.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx236%2FRedwingNev%2FAvro%2520Achilles%2520PR2%2Ffinal6.jpg&hash=5528849227c6442f0f79fe14954d3945e782b739)
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Ed S on June 06, 2008, 07:04:22 AM
Beautiful.

Nice looking model.

Ed
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Aircav on June 06, 2008, 08:45:30 AM
Very nice Nev, now can I have me model back  ;D
She looks great  :thumbsup: :wub:
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Weaver on June 06, 2008, 10:02:43 AM
That looks great nev, and the back story's credible too.

Just one small point of order though: A.V.Roe wasn't at AVRO to be fascinated by this project in 1945, because he'd sold his share in the company to Hawker Group in the early 1930s and gone off to form Saunders Roe with Sam Saunders. It would have been Roy Chadwick, designer of the Lancaster, who assessed this design, and given his enthusiasm for deltas, I'm sure he'd have bitten. Of course, you could always whiff the history differently......
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: GTX on June 06, 2008, 01:30:22 PM
Damn fine result!

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Mossie on June 07, 2008, 07:07:00 AM
Looks great Nev! :thumbsup:

Quote from: Weaver on June 06, 2008, 10:02:43 AM
That looks great nev, and the back story's credible too.

Just one small point of order though: A.V.Roe wasn't at AVRO to be fascinated by this project in 1945, because he'd sold his share in the company to Hawker Group in the early 1930s and gone off to form Saunders Roe with Sam Saunders. It would have been Roy Chadwick, designer of the Lancaster, who assessed this design, and given his enthusiasm for deltas, I'm sure he'd have bitten. Of course, you could always whiff the history differently......

Weaver, there's was an interesting story I saw on a DVD about Roy Chadwick & the design of the delta wing on the Vulcan.  Initially, he wasn't keen at all.  He'd been off work for some weeks with a nasty case of shingles.  When he left, the Vulcan design was going strongly in a conventional manner.  In his absence, his designers realised the delta would be very suitable for the Vulcan & pressed ahead with that.

Chadwick returned on a Friday, to see that his designers had completley deviated from the conventional path.  Suprised & still not feeling great, he went completely off his head!  He had a raging argument with his head designer & told him in no uncertain terms that he was to return to the previous designs & that weeks had been wasted.

Over the weekend, he had a look over the delta designs & had a good think about it as well as a chance to calm down.  By return to work on Monday, he'd had complete change of heart, called his head designer in to apologise & to tell him that the delta design had merit.  So it makes you wonder, if Roy Chadwick hadn't felt ill, would the design of the Vulcan have carried on down a more conventional path?
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Weaver on June 07, 2008, 08:30:43 AM
Quote from: Mossie on June 07, 2008, 07:07:00 AM
Looks great Nev! :thumbsup:

Quote from: Weaver on June 06, 2008, 10:02:43 AM
That looks great nev, and the back story's credible too.

Just one small point of order though: A.V.Roe wasn't at AVRO to be fascinated by this project in 1945, because he'd sold his share in the company to Hawker Group in the early 1930s and gone off to form Saunders Roe with Sam Saunders. It would have been Roy Chadwick, designer of the Lancaster, who assessed this design, and given his enthusiasm for deltas, I'm sure he'd have bitten. Of course, you could always whiff the history differently......

Weaver, there's was an interesting story I saw on a DVD about Roy Chadwick & the design of the delta wing on the Vulcan.  Initially, he wasn't keen at all.  He'd been off work for some weeks with a nasty case of shingles.  When he left, the Vulcan design was going strongly in a conventional manner.  In his absence, his designers realised the delta would be very suitable for the Vulcan & pressed ahead with that.

Chadwick returned on a Friday, to see that his designers had completley deviated from the conventional path.  Suprised & still not feeling great, he went completely off his head!  He had a raging argument with his head designer & told him in no uncertain terms that he was to return to the previous designs & that weeks had been wasted.

Over the weekend, he had a look over the delta designs & had a good think about it as well as a chance to calm down.  By return to work on Monday, he'd had complete change of heart, called his head designer in to apologise & to tell him that the delta design had merit.  So it makes you wonder, if Roy Chadwick hadn't felt ill, would the design of the Vulcan have carried on down a more conventional path?

Great story Mossie  :thumbsup: - no I hadn't heard that: thought-provoking indeed......
Title: Re: Avro Achilles PR2
Post by: Captain Canada on June 07, 2008, 08:56:21 AM
Beautiful work, Nevster ! The decals look superb against that finnish. Great stuff. Love the story as well.

:cheers: