Okay, game on!
I hereby undertake to turn this here F-5B kit into a an FA-5K (or "Fask" as it's universally nicknamed)(I've just decided). The Fask is based on the Northrop N-300-A5 study, which was basically an F-5E with shoulder-mounted wings and tailplanes and fuselage-mounted u/c. The advantages of this were that the wing thickness was no longer dependent on the u/c thickness, and the pylons could be more spaced out. On the downside, there was a small drag and weight penalty.
I'm doing it to an F-5B 'cos that's what I've got, and 'cos the way this kit splits the plane up is helpful. backstory is that, with the F-5E addressing the fighter market, Northrop revised the -C/D along N-300 lines to make it a complimentary strike aircraft; a sort of mini-Jaguar. If all goes well, it may get a laser-nose in support of this. F-5G/H being reserved for the future -5E development, -I/K was the next available pair of designations.
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If I get it done early, then colours will be Patchwork World. If not, then Norwegian.
Norwegian splinter camo ? :)
An evening's progress:
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All taped/bluetacked up, I hasten to add.
"No plan survives contact with the plastic", as The Duke of Wellington would have said if he'd built plastic models, which he didn't.
The original plan to cut simple slots high in the side ofthe intake ducts foundered on the fact that the ducts slope downwards to the nose: they'd have given the wing negative AoA.... Instead the front of the wing slots have to go within the thickness of the duct walls, which are now paper-thin as a result of some very careful cutting.
Found a nice laser pod from a Hind, so that's actually the first thing that's been glued to it. Yes, I know that F-5B nosewheels retract forwards, but this one now retracts backwards, okay? :rolleyes: ;D
The nastiest surprise so far had nothing to do with whiffery: the damn canopy didn't fit. :banghead: Specifically, the slope at the back edge was way to flat for the cutout in the fuselage. By the time I'd got it to match, the front end had shrunk away from the little solid fairing in front of it, so that's an extra delicate little filling job I didn't need..... :rolleyes:
Next, undercarriage...... :blink:
Quote from: cthulhu77 on July 04, 2008, 12:09:32 PM
Norwegian splinter camo ? :)
Do you mean their army cammo or the cammo on the Skjold FAC (which looks damn sexy btw)? I can't see any reference to Norway using a splinter cammo on their aircraft: they seem to go for NMF, grey or overall olive green.... :unsure:
The canopy on both F-5B kits (I've got two) is poo-poo (with an english accent)..... :banghead: it's got a big internal flaw running the length of it and both of them, bizzarely have a scratch in the same place too. To that end, and because cockpits don't interest me much anyway, I've decided to piant over the rear canopy and make it a Mitsubishi-F1-style single-seater. That actually makes quite a lot of sense, since there isn't much room in a F-5B for a pile of nav/attack black boxes otherwise.
It now has slightly bulged nosewheel doors to make the backwards retraction a bit more credible, and I'm going to droop the nose a little, to make it look more aggressive. U/C is now being nicked from one of my F-5Es, as are it's AIM-9Ps, since they're infinitely better than the misshapen lumps in the Matchbox kit. Spent all day thinking about the u/c arrangement without actually doing anything about it (now you know why I don't finish things), but at least I knocked up a half-decent scratchbuilt laser designator pod while I was at it. Reason? Keeping things Scandinavian, the warload is going to include a pair of Swedish laser-homing "Rb-05Ls" nicked and modified from an Airfix Viggen.
I do actually have a scheme for the u/c now which means I've got to go and glue stuff together now......
Another genius move by Matchbox: they went to all the trouble of including Norwegian markings, and didn't notice that Norwegian F-5A/Bs, unlike most, have an arrestor hook.... :rolleyes: (another thing to rob from the F-5E....)
Speaking of robbing the F-5E, I also nicked it's cockpit, since it's infinitely better than the Matchbox one, and being spacious and under a big canopy, you can really see it. Lots of modification needed to get an F-5E's (basically rear) cockpit to go in the front of an F-5B, but it's done, and looks okay, actually.
Looking Sweeet, a cool idea ,well executed :wub:
Tried to paint the dashboard using Scooterman's techniques, but I just flatly DON'T have steady enough hands, so I *****d it up royally. Then I realised that the F-5E kit has an instrument decal. ;D Then I found out that my two F-5E kits only have one decal sheet between them. >:( Since the FA-5K is never going to be brilliant due to it's crappy canopy, I decided to save the decals for the F-5E project, and just closed the fuselage the hell up. I hate all cockpits (always did)...... :banghead:
Anyhow, here's what I did while I should have been doing important stuff, and here's also what happens when you buy a cheap X-acto-clone craft knife that has plastic where metal should be.... :banghead:
The things on the back row are an ECM pod (scratchbuilt from sprue) a laser-targetting pod (turned from sprue in my "Dremel") and an Rb-05L (skillfully nicked). The missile isn't on the u/c tree btw, it's just my bobbins composition...
Can't decide whether to just leave the Rb-05Ls with pruned noses or whether to graft extended ones on.... :huh:
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Here's the fuselage together, in a view intended to show my cunningly bulged bay for the rearwards-retracting u/c. I'm "cheating" by having the main doors close again after extension (as the nosewheel doors do for real), so all I have to do is scribe their outlines. :thumbsup:
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And here it is with it's nose on. Note the RWR aerial on the fin tip, which I'm reasonably pleased with:(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FNorthropN300004-1.jpg&hash=9937dde5a5ff0bdc25224c8c649646aac6eea835)
mmmmm :wub: cool :thumbsup:
Not only cool, but very believable !!!!
Thanks for the kind words guys.... ;D
It's an ill wind..... that snapped-off craft knife head turns out to be an excellent putty-applier..... :thumbsup:
I've added a little fariing around the nosewheel base to blend the LRMTS unit in with the main nosewheel doors better, which now means I need to make a new nosewheel leg door. I'm contemplating ventral fins (the N-300 drawing has them), which, given my pathological inability to cut two things the same shape, should be "interesting".
Very little progress last night.....
Took a long lunch in order to go and get supplies from a model shop that turns out to be closed on Mondays, had to work late to make up the long lunch, and then, within the space of an hour, I managed to trip down the staitrs, spill a cup of tea over myself, and stick a craft knife in my thumb.
Sometimes, even someone as dumb as me can read the signs: this is Lady Luck's day off - put down the glue and step AWAY from the styrene.......
I always find bloody thumb-prints on my canopy increase my sense of manly self-esteem :drink:
LOL ;D :thumbsup:
Did manage to get some bits and bobs from another model shop on the way back to work, including a very nice laser-guidance conversion kit for Saab Rb-05 missiles*.
*Cunningly disguised as a set of 1/89th traffic cones, molded in red and white slices so you don't have to paint them: ALWAYS check the railway section...... ;D
That looks so neat. Was this a real what if, if such a thing can exist? I wanna watch this one closely! Neato man!
Quote from: Gary on July 08, 2008, 05:03:12 AM
That looks so neat. Was this a real what if, if such a thing can exist? I wanna watch this one closely! Neato man!
Yes and no - the idea came from the N300-A5 was a real Northrop study for an F-5E Tiger II with it's wing (and tailplanes, oddly) moved up to the shoulder position, the principle idea being to free the wing design from having to accomodate the u/c, and allow the pylons to be better spaced and carry deeper stores. It was still a fighter, not an attack type though. Mine differs by being based on an F-5B (just 'cos I had one to spare): the drooped nose, avionics, stores and detail of the u/c are my invention (the N300 drawing is a bit vague on the latter point).
This a jet that "should have been". Wonderful execution, sir !
Quote from: Weaver on July 04, 2008, 02:20:39 PM
An evening's progress:
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that kinda looks like an EADS MAKO (HEAT) from this angle, i gonna keep track of this build :wub:
MMMMM nice shoulders :wub:
Thanks for the encouragement folks! :thumbsup:
Bit more progress tonight. Thought I'd better take a picture of it with it's wings on properly before I set about them with my dubious PSR skills. Stores are in paint, apart from one that's still building :drink:(think it's got more parts than the kit..... :rolleyes:)
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These are the first pictures I've taken with my new, £12-from-Aldi tripod, BTW, which is why they look a bit warmer than the earlier ones: 60W daylight bulb and a 15 second exposure, instead of flash..... :wub:
Looking mighty fine. That's a good reminder/tip about using the tripod with longer exposure.....hmmmmm....going to have to try that out, especially on NMF subjects. :thumbsup:
That's one sharp looking F-5, Weaver! I really like your modifications and look forward to your next update!
:thumbsup:
Brian da Basher
Cheers BdB and JHM. ;D
I'm stil undecided about colours. It's going to be Norwegian, but I don't fancy F-5A white/NMF or F-16 grey. That leaves:
1. The sensible option: F-104 Olive Green over Light Grey.
2. The silly option: copy/adapt this Norwegian Navy scheme:
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I'm not putting it to a vote, because:
a) in the absence of an airbrush, it depends entirely on what rattle cans I can find locally. (It also, of course, depends on how close to the deadline the painting starts.... :blink:)
b) I know what you'll pick anyway..... ;D
Our local hardware store stocks some really nice "designer" series rattlecan colours...all satin or flat, and in pale and pastel variations of green, brown, and blue...
what a great little model, mind if i build it under licence in the future :wub:
it looks just so......right :mellow:
Quote from: cthulhu77 on July 09, 2008, 06:14:12 AM
Our local hardware store stocks some really nice "designer" series rattlecan colours...all satin or flat, and in pale and pastel variations of green, brown, and blue...
Hmmm- there's a thought: can't recall if Plasticote do something like this, but I can find out. Cheers! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Nils on July 09, 2008, 06:15:18 AM
what a great little model, mind if i build it under licence in the future :wub:
it looks just so......right :mellow:
Go for it: Northrop hold the patent, not me....... ;D
If you've got Tony Buttler's American Secret Projects book, you can check out the original, which is quite a bit different.
This is coming along nicely. A good looking model. I like the camo on that ship. But it might be a problem matching rattle can paints to that.
Ed
Quote from: Ed S on July 09, 2008, 08:15:49 AM
This is coming along nicely. A good looking model. I like the camo on that ship. But it might be a problem matching rattle can paints to that.
Ed
Depending on where Weaver lives and what he can access, Krylon has a nice assortment of ultraflat "camo" paints that might work. I've got their 44291 Khaki which looks like a dead-ringer for the tan, at least on my monitor. Their white primer would work just fine for the white, naturally. I think Krylon's sandable grey primer might be a touch too dark for the grey, however, they also have their 49240 "zinc rich primer" which would work for the grey. You just have to use this grey first, then mask in order to paint the other colors around it. While safe on plastic, this zinc primer doesn't always play well with other paints.
Thanks for the input guys.
I'm in Manchester area UK, and I've never seen "Krylon", I'm afraid.
I'm not fussed about matching the ship precisely (who says the Norge AF would be?), in fact I'd like the grey to be a bit lighter and wrap around to an all-grey underside. White primer will be fine, and I'd be surprised if I can't get a pale grey. It's the "sand" that's the problem: I don't want it too dark.
Anyhow, tomorrow night I get to go to the only LHS with Humbrol spray paints (not the full range though), so I'll see what they've got.
Very slick ;D :wub:
Doesn't look much different, but all the PSR is done, the u/c bays and door insides are painted up, and it has a new cockpit coaming to hide the control panel a bit more.... ;D The pylon and arrestor hook attachment points are masked up and the Sidewinder rails are fitted. The canopy is masked up, but I have limited confidence in the cheapo masking tape, so I don't know whether I'll glue it on tonight and give it an under coat or not... :huh:
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This is the store I was talking about, which, unfortunately, I can't photograph very well because I don't have a suitable lens. It's a countermeasures dispenser based loosly on the Wallop Masquerade, which is basically a CBLS (practice bomb carrier) loaded up with chaff and decoy cartridges instead. There are 21 pieces in this little puppy - am I mad? :blink:
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Mad? More like crazy (as in "crazy like a fox")! :thumbsup:
Yes, yes you are ;D :wub: :bow:
crazy in a great way ! :cheers:
Bombed out on the rattle cans tonight, so...
If you can't win the game, change the rules: I was shopping for rattle cans because I didn't have an airbrush. To be precise, I did have an airbrush, but it was 20 years old, gummed up and missing bits, so as a last resort, I went into Hobbycraft to see if I could buy enough bits to get it going again. I couldn't, at least not for less than the price of a new airbrush, so....
I am now the proud and only slightly terrified owner of a new Badger 250, and some tins of paint that bloody well DO match that there boat...... ;D :blink:
ooooh ! Love the 250 !
Me too , the Badger 250 was my second airbrush , you will love it. :wub: :wub: :wub:
The Fask is now in the paint shop with an initial undercoat of rattle-can white going on (and I am now going to have to buy some more).
A pox on white-plastic model kits! Every damn bit of grey putty is acting like pre-shading and showing through - going to take LOTS of coats of white before anything else goes on....
Just a suggestion, but I'd try using a gray primer coat and then put the white over that. The gray should cover up the putty nicely and give you a nice starting point for the white top coat.
Brian da Basher
I don't think the "white" in that camo-pattern is white, but rather a very light grey. If that helps any. ;D
Couple more coats of white did the job, ta. Finish isn't the best, but the clock is ticking....
Here it is with it's destined-to-be-white bits masked off:
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Next, a bit of airbrushing practice, and then a coat of stone, (gulp) and then a trip to the LMS for some more thinners... :rolleyes:
Couple of coats of Light Stone with the airbrush:
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Looking good, I always love to see the transformation that comes at the painting stage of the build.
Stone areas masked up. It's now in the paint shop with the first coat of topside grey drying. Not sure if the grey-over-stone is going to work or not, but it's too late to mess about now - running out of time! :o
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Looks very enticing from over here... :thumbsup:
Looks a good deal less enticing when you're holding it in your hand, believe me..... :rolleyes:
2nd coat of grey on, looking better, but a few small sags :banghead: Inexperience/impatience biting......
The camera is your friend! It looks awesome on my screen...
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Heh Heh, Allllll - Riiight!
Shas 8)
Heh - I assumed that the yellowness of the sprayed-on-grey was the stone showing through the (possibly a bit over-thinned) grey. However, last night, I sprayed the white underside with grey, came to check it this morning, and it looked yellow too. :unsure: Took it up from the cellar (spray booth) to the kitchen and it suddenly turned a nice shade of pure grey - it's the damn light in the cellar: makes everything look yellowy.......... :rolleyes:
Well that was a bloody disaster - took the masking tape off, to discover that the "low tack, low residue" tape had left masses of tacky residue. Everywhere. :banghead: Worse, grey paint appears to have crept through said residue, and while I've managed to scrape it off white areas, I can't do the same on Stone ones, because the paint is so thin that it goes straight through to white. Can't touch then up either: paint from the tin looks WAY different to the sprayed paint. I thought at first that the tack wouldn't come off the Stone areas AT ALL, but after it had air-dried for a bit, it came off with only a few hours of patient, fiddly dabbing....
So it's best-of-a-bad-job time, now, I'm afraid...... >:(
It's finished, and looking a hell of a lot better than it has any right to, the little %$*&£*)!!!! ;D
Pictures after supper......
Gah - bloody ISP server has crashed me out THREE times in the middle of trying to bulk-upload pics.... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Going to put up a finished thread with one pic then add more as and when.....
In parallel with the development of the Tiger II, Northrop began, in the early 1970s, a series of studies of alternative uses of the F-5 series tooling. There were number of motivations for this. Partly, it was a desire to expand the aircraft's ground attack and rough-field capabilities, and this was boosted by NATO adoption of the Flexible Response strategy. This change of emphasis, to a prolonged conventional war in Germany, brought about a much greater need for CAS aircraft, motivated the switch of the Jaguar programme from "mostly trainer" to "mostly strike" and genrated a series of Operational Requirements (such as the UK's AST.396, for example) for light attack aircraft, which the F-5 was well-placed to address.
Another motivation was competition. The Jaguar and Corsair were demonstrating that a sophisticated light strike aircraft was both possible and affordable, and the Skyhawk was demonstrating that a market existed. Furthermore, the Lightweight Fighter competition was looming, the winner might well eclipse the F-5E, and if Northrop didn't win, they'd be left severely short of work.
The design that emerged used the F-5B airframe in order to gain more volume for electronics, the latter being fitted in a faired over rear cockpit in similar style to the later Mitsubishi F1. As a result of the N300-A5 study the wing was moved to the shoulder position, allowing wider and longer stores to be carried without ground clearance/rotate issues, and fuselage-mounted, rearwards-retracting undercarriage with large, low-pressure tires, was fitted. Electronics were customer specified, with a wide range of nav/attack and targetting systems being offered (at a price).
The FA-5K, as it was eventually designated, sold reasonably well, but perhaps not to the level Northrop hoped for. Some smaller NATO nations, who couldn't afford as many F-16s as they'd like, bought it, as did some of the larger Third World nations who could afford separate fighter and strike fleets. However, much of the FA-5K's thunder was stolen by the larger, longer ranged and more powerful Jaguar and AMX. Northrop discovered that a much greater percentage of the cost of this class of aircraft is accounted for by avionics than in the basic F-5: at the end of the day, if you want to fly Jaguar missions, you've got to pay for Jaguar black boxes.
This aircraft is one of 40 FA-5Ks bought by Norway in the mid 1980s to replace their F-5As and supplement their F-16s. These aircraft carry a Ferranti LRMTS sensor in an undernose fairing, but lack the terrain-following radar seen on some other FA-5Ks. Two Alkan decoy flare launchers are mounted on the rear fuselage. Like the F-5As that preceded them, Norway's FA-5Ks have an arrestor hook for safe landings on icy runways.
The aircraft is carrying two Saab-Bofors Rb-05L laser-guided ASMs and a Thomson-CSF ATLIS-NG Modulaire laser-designator pod on the centreline to guide them. Self defence against surface threats is provided by a PEAB Loki ECM pod and a Wallop Industries Super Masquerade countermeasures dispenser on the remaining two underwing pylons. Since the FA-5K has no gun, air-to-air defence falls to two AIM-9P(N) Sidewinders. These missiles and the dispenser are built under licence in Norway by A/S Kongsberg.
Gill Bunston
AIR Interchangeable magazine, July 1990
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Kit: Matchbox CF-116/F-5B
Mods: Wings moved to shoulder position, underwing "pallet" angled downwards and faired into sheet styrene panel to make new undercarriage bay, with main gear and arrestor hook from Airfix F-5E. Nose angled downwards. Laser pod from Hasegawa Hind fitted under nose. Scratchbuilt RWR fairing. Seat and cockpit tub nicked from Airfix F-5E. Flare pods from Minitanks 1/87th M60A2 smoke dischargers.
Stores: Sidewinders and centreline pylon from Airfix F-5E. Two extra wing pylons from another Matchbox F-5B. Rb-05 missiles from Airfix Viggen with laser noses from 1/87th traffic cones set. ECM pod scratchbuilt from hexagonal sprue & sheet. Laser targetting pod turned from sprue in drill. Chaff pod nose from Airfix Phantom 1000lb bomb, rest of body, cartridge rails and big cartridges scratchbuilt from various styrene sections, small cartridges are Minitanks 1/87th gun simlators.
Paint: "Norwegian Splinter" inspired by Skjold FAC. Car primer white, Humbrol Stone and Humbrol Light grey. Kit decals.
Good bits: all the actual Whif stuff went well.
Bad bits: all caused by the poor original kit or bad materials (canopy didn't fit, masking tape screwed paint up etc..)
Effects of 1-week time limit: a) it got done, which would have been highly unlikely otherwise, b) ventral strakes, elaborate u/c, custom decals & better laser-nose all got canned for lack of time, c) had to call time on fixing screwed-up finish.
Mistakes: plenty.......
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FNorthrop%2520FA-5K%2FNorthropN300007.jpg&hash=710fd9e862ccf5491734fc992680019a87810960)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FNorthrop%2520FA-5K%2FNorthropN300025.jpg&hash=0938030fe70c3f325c6870f11ae52c06ee682952)
Lastly, the refined gentleman's modelling desk:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FNorthrop%2520FA-5K%2FNorthropN300005.jpg&hash=81435e5f286469fc67d71de64be1499164c997aa)
Somehow, I always imagine BdB working in a setup like this.... ;D
LOOKS GOOD!
A clever change on a common a/c.
Ed
Well I think it looks great!! Love those colors, and the weapons fit looks great too. :thumbsup:
Well I was going to tell you how good the model is, because it is great, especially with what you had to overcome to get her done,but after seeing your modeling desk I have come to the conclusion that no one that neat can be completely sane. ;D ;D ;D :party:
Quote from: sotoolslinger on July 14, 2008, 07:01:18 AM
Well I was going to tell you how good the model is, because it is great, especially with what you had to overcome to get her done,but after seeing your modeling desk I have come to the conclusion that no one that neat can be completely sane. ;D ;D ;D :party:
Careful - the neat-looking modelling desk might simply be there to illustrate the folly of believing what you see in photographs....... :wacko:
Very nice work Weaver, I really like the camo! :thumbsup:
~Steve
Very well done, Weaver! Your FA-5K looks as Norwegian as Lutefisk!
:thumbsup:
Brian da Basher
Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement - it's very much appreciated, particularly coming from this company.... :bow: :bow: :bow: