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Hot Research Topics => Aircraft, Armor, Weapons and Ships by Topic => Topic started by: GTX on November 18, 2008, 10:31:39 PM

Title: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: GTX on November 18, 2008, 10:31:39 PM
Hi folks,

I couldn't find an appropriate thread, so here goes - whiffs for Italian WWII fighters.  To start, here are some FIAT G.55 whiffs I've done:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2Fg55bc.gif&hash=0926e75f1492ce27c5c5e6bd634552247bafce87)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2FG55super.jpg&hash=c0141d81251b0b4b86d5ea02ce80f68e1bcc7f39)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Caproni Bologna
Post by: sequoiaranger on November 19, 2008, 09:51:42 AM
Here's a whif made from a Yak-17 (jet engine faired into lower fuselage) and an Me-262 (wing engines and wings).

I presume that Italy steals some of Germany's jet engine technology, makes a slightly inferior product, but puts THREE engines on (typical Italian penchant for tri-motors).
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: SSgt Baloo on November 19, 2008, 10:52:35 AM
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi28.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc219%2FSSgtBaloo%2FSuperstuff%2FSuper%2520Transport%2FCaproniLampo.png&hash=cb98b3be3d5d6ff16e74ea29c1ecac079c2cb2e3)


The Caproni Lampo was a development of the Caproni-Campini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campini_Caproni_CC.2). It was smaller, lighter, and more significantly, faster and more maneuverable. The first prototype had a conventional tail with both  a vertical stabilizer and rudder and a horizontal stabilizer and elevator. When the P-50 (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1652599#post1652599) began operations in the Battle for Britain, the designers decided that their plane would have a butterfly tail also. This delayed production and the Lampo didn't enter production until after the liberation of Italy.

The lampo was capable of cruising at 375 MPH. It was highly maneuverable and was more than a match for any propeller-driven plane with the possible exception of the FW-190, which had a slight edge in speed.

One hundred and five examples of the Lampo were produced, and served the Free Italian forces through the rest of the war and into the early fifties, by which time they had been relagated to trainer status.
Title: "Royal Rangerplane"
Post by: sequoiaranger on November 19, 2008, 12:22:07 PM
Not an Italian subject, but did you know your "Royal Rangerplane" was a "real" whif, that is, a Westland P.12?

Picture (un-doctored) below
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Doc Yo on November 20, 2008, 10:57:16 AM
 The most intriguing Italian whiff I can think of was a tri-motor heavy fighter. After a little searching,
I found the relevent thread at the Secret Projects Forum.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1339.0/highlight,italian.html

The aircraft in question is the IMAM RO 67 project-while I remember seeing the plan views for it there, I
gather the images are now only available to registered members. It doesn't look like it would be too
difficult to bash out of a trio of old Frog MC 202s, or some Supermodel 205s....
Title: Re: "Royal Rangerplane"
Post by: SSgt Baloo on November 20, 2008, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: sequoiaranger on November 19, 2008, 12:22:07 PM
Not an Italian subject, but did you know your "Royal Rangerplane" was a "real" whif, that is, a Westland P.12?

Picture (un-doctored) below

Yes. I just wanted to try doing that configuration as a "passenger" plane. From what I've read it had excellent handling qualities and was STOL or close to it.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: ChernayaAkula on November 20, 2008, 05:14:21 PM
Quote from: GTX on November 18, 2008, 10:31:39 PM
<...> To start, here are some FIAT G.55 whiffs I've done: <...>

Damn, those are sexy! :wub:
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Arc3371 on November 20, 2008, 06:04:53 PM
Reposting some I have used earlier

G-55/Me-109 hybrid
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2FGW105B-1.jpg&hash=da9b1f8756f1e7e66a1749816933a2329dd002e6)

Better visibility G-55
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2FG55C.jpg&hash=4b72f4c658212446c465a8e2a9a0bb085141552d)

Re-engined Re-2000´s
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2Fre2000b.jpg&hash=baea488c44fa4eeef7a913be30f92843029c04d2)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2Fre2000d.jpg&hash=4cfd72e6003eaab8ac7c2a8dc1dd84933fc2717d)
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: starship1 on November 20, 2008, 08:57:05 PM
Doc Yo, I believe this is tha aircraft.
Title: IMAM RO 67
Post by: sequoiaranger on November 21, 2008, 12:05:50 AM
I can't imagine that the pilot can see ANYTHING from the cockpit that far back, with the wing and three engines blocking his forward vision. How would he ever land the thing?

I did, however have a trimotor Italian thing going, myself, once upon a time......

Mine would look almost identical from nose-on view ('cept the tri-tail in place of the twin).
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Sauragnmon on November 21, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Hmm... here's a thought for the trimotor heavy fighter...

Wings come back from the RO 67 a little, cockpit moves forward to sit a little closer to the engines.  Two heavy MG's in the cowling over the nose 603, 20/30mm motorcannon, maybe one in each engine for that matter.  Refit the gear to a tricycle gear, perhaps?

Just my thoughts.
Title: Trimotor
Post by: sequoiaranger on November 21, 2008, 08:30:33 AM
>Refit the gear to a tricycle gear, perhaps?<

Now yer talkin'! It would look kinda like a Grumman P-50 (F5F Skyrocket).

>20/30mm motorcannon, maybe one in each engine for that matter.<

Though I had thought of that for my trimotor, I realized that it just wasn't done in reality, and I think I kinda figured out why.

The central engine points directly ahead--fine for a cannon to be aimed, and any roll of the plane still keeps the gun on target.

Any engine-mounted cannon out on the wings will be, by necessity, pointing straight ahead, too, parallel with the nose cannon (can't angle the guns inward to converge like ordinary wing guns). There seems to be only limited cases when this might be anywhere near efficient as a gun platform. It would be too rare to be lined up just right to shoot at another twin-engined plane (to hit the engine nacelles), that is, only a few degrees out of the 360 of possible angles.  Any slight roll and the guns are just shooting out into space.

Perhaps some MG's mounted over the engine, firing through the propeller arc like most single-engined Italian fighters, could be canted enough to converge, but unless the engine itself was canted in (creating a weird thrust vector), any driveshaft-mounted cannon would just fire straight ahead. It might work for ground attack (light trucks, buildings, tents, etc), but not fighter-vs-aircraft.

I love what I call "Celebes Island Camouflage"--those squiggly amoebas of green on sand.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Sauragnmon on November 21, 2008, 09:08:03 AM
Well my other thought might have been to put guns in the wings, but with the overlapped nature of the propellers, an interrupter gear would be a necessity, and hellishly short on rate of fire between synchronizing the propeller arcs.  I suggested two cowling guns as well, I was given to thought similar to the 109G-6 with the two heavy caliber MG's in the cowling and a cannon in the motor mount.  The other suggestion would be to add a belly mount with the additional cannons.  Put radiators in the wing root leading edges, another two possibly under the wing engines.  You could use license-built 605's, and probably get some quick performance out of it.

That's just my thoughts off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: GTX on November 21, 2008, 09:29:21 AM
Continuing with my G.55 ideas - how about an extreme high altitude fighter with stretched wings and turbocharger (under fuselage):

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2F24.jpg&hash=cf54d041fa64c6a72b2dd5afe7813f1287401ef7)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Doc Yo on November 21, 2008, 12:03:12 PM
 Veeery Innnteresting, GTX-I have a weakness for long winged birds, and that one looks mighty nice. I'd
suggest a cranked wing ( w-wing, inverted gull wing,  call it what you will ) but I can't call to mind a
single example of the Italian designers using the planform...


Starship 1- Thats the one! Thanks very much for linking the images.

Sequoia-Very nice concept, and a wonderful execution.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: GTX on November 21, 2008, 01:51:47 PM
How about a Twinned G55:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2Fg55Z.jpg&hash=837c4695d0b91c9980e6473c42adef934f37167f)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Doc Yo on November 21, 2008, 02:22:48 PM
 Also very nice. If you'll permit kibitzing, I'd lengthen the fuselages, and shorten the inter-wing just a bit.

Another link, and  I'll shut up for a bit. This the link to the CHANDELLE archive, and you'll want to look at
the March 1998 ( Vol. 3 ) issue, which contains an article titled "Might Have Beens: Italian Twin-Engined Fighters
ca. 1943. Contains good info and drawings ( in color ) of the S.M. 91 & 92, the Corsaro and one I
had forgotten about, the Caproni Ca 183bis-a dual power fighter...

http://www.worldatwar.net/chandelle/

You'll have to do a little clicking to get to it as the individual issues don't seem to allow direct links, but I
doubt you'll be disappointed if you do get lost...
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Sauragnmon on November 21, 2008, 05:35:49 PM
Doc, if you look at close pictures of the G.55, it actually had an inverted gull to a degree, or at least one image I saw over at Wikipedia when I looked it up, of a ANR G.55 it appeared to have it.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Daryl J. on November 21, 2008, 07:27:23 PM
Having a G.55 or Re-2005 fully tuned for Reno would be great.   :wub: :wub:
:cheers:,

Daryl J.

Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: jcf on November 21, 2008, 09:38:59 PM
Quote from: Sauragnmon on November 21, 2008, 05:35:49 PM
Doc, if you look at close pictures of the G.55, it actually had an inverted gull to a degree, or at least one image I saw over at Wikipedia when I looked it up, of a ANR G.55 it appeared to have it.
The center section is pretty much flat with dihedral on the outer wing panels.

Jon
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: elmayerle on November 24, 2008, 09:25:56 AM
Quote from: GTX on November 21, 2008, 01:51:47 PM
How about a Twinned G55:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2Fg55Z.jpg&hash=837c4695d0b91c9980e6473c42adef934f37167f)

I believe Trophe can correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a twin G.55 project numbered G.58?  I'm pretty certain I've seen it written up in a book on the G.55 as well as in Trophe's twin-tails book.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: GTX on January 06, 2009, 11:50:24 PM
My take on a BMW801 powered Re.2000:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2Fv06.jpg&hash=293d725dd4ea3af4a3d511fa774963041341cbb6)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Radish on January 07, 2009, 01:12:52 AM
I'd thought of a triple C.205, all built around a triangular configuration, a tail-sitting 3-engined VTOL single-seater.
Title: British Re-2000's??
Post by: sequoiaranger on February 01, 2009, 01:22:50 AM
In Italy... A secret British military mission orders 300 Caproni Re2000 fighters. (German intervention in April effectively vetoes the deal and British attempts to obtain the fighters through a Portuguese intermediary fail with the Italian declaration of war on June 10th.)
(Being skeptical of the information, I researched further and found this)
.... as soon as the Italian Government had authorised "Reggiane" to solicit export orders for the fighter, demonstration flights were arranged for a number of foreign delegations. War clouds had already burst over Europe, and a number of countries were anxious to strengthen and modernise their fighter defences.
December 1939 saw the arrival of a British Mission in Italy led by Lord Hardwick, the purpose of which was to purchase arms and particularly aircraft. Wing Commander H N Thornton, representing the Air Ministry, visited several of the Caproni factories, including the "Reggiane" works at Reggio Emilia. Negotiations were initiated for the purchase of Isotta Fraschini marine engines, a thousand 20-mm cannon, 300 Ca313 light reconnaissance bombers, 100 Ca.311 trainers, and 300 Re.2000 fighters! On December 22nd, pilots Gray and Barnet accompanying the British Mission flight tested the Re.2000, and a month later, on January 26, 1940, the Director of Aircraft Contracts confirmed the British order for the "Reggiane" fighters. Surprisingly, on March 8, 1940, the German government signified its approval to the Italian government of the sale of Italian aircraft to Britain, but within a few weeks, on April 6th, this approval was withdrawn. Nevertheless, on May 15th Count Caproni and Lord Hardwick finalised a scheme whereby the aircraft would be sold to Britain by Portugal, the Caproni group having a Portuguese subsidiary, the Soc Aeroportuguesa. However, on June 10, 1940, Italy entered the war on Germany's side, and thus the devious schemes prepared to evade the German embargo on the sale of Italian aircraft to Britain came to nought.

http://www.histaviation.com/Reggiane_Re_2000.html

Now when will we see some Re-2000's in sand-and-spinach camo from someone out there? And then.....what happens when the British Re-2000's meet up with the Corpo Aero Italiano??

:blink:
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Arc3371 on February 01, 2009, 01:41:18 AM
Some Re-2000´s I did a while a go

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2FXX98.jpg&hash=a7df6a193d23c1ed603cfe00b8b1da0a87523b9a)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2FXX97.jpg&hash=53e91c2445bd3a6fc6bdb58bc1a34f4448c573e2)

Lend lease
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2FXX99.jpg&hash=bc3c97883eeaaad43b6bef01602d2eef41173c82)

And also ordered by the French
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2FXX96.jpg&hash=38c681a98628a779659745d14aeb4e68b28d9361)

As for the Corpo Aero Italiano it didnt use the Re-2000 (neither did the RA as a whole in any significant numbers)
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: jorel62 on February 01, 2009, 04:01:25 AM
I had posted this one on my thread. Does it for here?
Title: British Re-2000's redux
Post by: sequoiaranger on February 01, 2009, 09:22:21 AM
>As for the Corpo Aero Italiano it didnt use the Re-2000 (neither did the RA as a whole in any significant numbers)<

Yes, I know. The CAI used CR-42's and Fiat G-50bis fighters. However, I was thinking more on the CAI frame of mind being attacked by Italian fighters.

Or maybe the "export" Reggianes would end up in Malta, The Western Desert, or Singapore. Maybe in China paired up with the look-alike Seversky P-35's! Lots of "whif" potential there!
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Arc3371 on February 01, 2009, 12:36:13 PM
Sorry to have misunderstood what you were saying, the way i thought was that the Re-2000´s would be used in secondary theaters once the immediate invasion threat had passed so, the dessert, Malta, CBI and East Africa could be interesting areas. china that was buying wjat ever they could lay their hand would probably be interested especially if the Italian mission goes home later than historical
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: GTX on July 24, 2009, 01:48:20 PM
De-spatted CR-42:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2Ffiatcr42DS.jpg&hash=610587bb981abb1d7c5b0b1ed6dc0ba5cc7fbc95)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: ChernayaAkula on July 24, 2009, 03:16:57 PM
Oh, BdB is soo not going to like it.  :wacko: I think it looks cool!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: NARSES2 on July 25, 2009, 03:43:30 AM
I've always thought the "British" Re 2000's would have been posted to the Middle and Far East. So in India they would have looked very much like the Mohawks that were actually used. Very much early war temperate scheme including the red/white/blue roundels. Possibly would of been out of service before the SEAC scheme came in. Could see them in Singapore instead of the Buffalo's ?

Geoff P has built a DAF Re 2000 in 1/48. Nice model
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Arc3371 on July 25, 2009, 05:24:53 AM
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2FZXUK.jpg&hash=9e20031b8c778de36a985be51a1d3e62d111b590)

Like this?
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: dogsbody on July 25, 2009, 03:44:56 PM
What about a British Re.2000 re-engined with a Bristol engine, a Taurus or a Hercules.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: NARSES2 on July 26, 2009, 05:06:15 AM
Hi Arc

Very much like that except it would have had the early type roundels with wider white and yellow rings as per the attached Spitfire profile. (Couldn't find a colour pic of a RAF Mohawk)

Will probably get the Italeri kit out of the stash when I get home and do an Indian based RAF Re  ;D

Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Arc3371 on July 26, 2009, 07:23:51 AM
New attempts

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2FZXUK2.jpg&hash=05b8752a5f2ea2603a7d8b64cf7656d96d40c17c)

Re.engined

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff224%2Farc3371%2FZXKL.jpg&hash=7acb443bdca4d1ac5fa10d5101c6e97a7b1a6534)
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Geoff on July 26, 2009, 08:36:52 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on July 25, 2009, 03:43:30 AM
Geoff P has built a DAF Re 2000 in 1/48. Nice model

Thank you. It's in the background of this pic, I cannot find a proper one of it. Unfortunatly you cannot see the sharkmouth on the nose as it's 112 Sqd.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Geoff on July 26, 2009, 12:48:48 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Weaver on July 26, 2009, 06:37:35 PM
Going back to the earlier discussion about three-engined fighters and the difficulties of arming them, how about a twin boom design, like the SM.91, with a third engine on the back of the central pods with a pusher propellor? You then have the nose of the pod clear for an efficient armament layout and the favourable one-engine-per-drag-body ratio of a conventional fighter, with the added bonus of reduced prop-wash drag from the pusher engine (pushers are inherently more efficient than tractors).
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Weaver on July 27, 2009, 03:10:37 AM
On the subject of twin-engine Italian fighters, there were also two IMAM designs:

Ro.57: http://www.comandosupremo.com/Ro57.html

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2Fro57-1.gif&hash=a58ab7dffcb5b49c2b3fa508a710f280f32f4da4)

Is that sexy or what? The nearest thing to a productionised Grumman Skyrocket I can think of.... :wub:

There's a kit of it too: http://www.modelingmadness.com/scotts/axis/previews/splhobby/sh72082preview.htm


Ro.58: http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/2-Airplanes/Axis/2-Italy/03-Attack-Aircrafts/IMAM-RO.58/IMAM-RO.58.htm

This was an enlarged Ro.57 with Db.601 engines and two crew. On flight test, it allegedly performed better than an Me-410, but it was too late to be put into production before the end of the war in Italy.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: NARSES2 on July 27, 2009, 03:13:42 AM
I've always liked the Ro 57 and I've the Special Hobby kit in the stash and an old resin oneI got cheap somewhere - this thread is increasing my build list expotentialy  :banghead:
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Aircav on July 27, 2009, 03:50:43 AM
Breda 88 is even better  ;D
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Weaver on July 27, 2009, 08:16:49 AM
Quote from: Aircav on July 27, 2009, 03:50:43 AM
Breda 88 is even better  ;D

That the "Lince"? Good looking but dreadful performer IIRC. How very Italian..... ;D
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Sauragnmon on July 27, 2009, 10:53:52 AM
Imagine the Ro.57 with 801's under the cowlings... I Love the canopy design, it just looks so raked back and sleek... the Ro.58's a little meh, she's like a knock off of the 110 really.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Arc3371 on July 27, 2009, 11:26:12 AM
The SAI 207/403 "Dardo" fighters and Caproni-Vizzola F.6 has always interested me not sure if there are any kits of these birds
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Weaver on July 27, 2009, 11:35:42 AM
Quote from: Sauragnmon on July 27, 2009, 10:53:52 AM
Imagine the Ro.57 with 801's under the cowlings... I Love the canopy design, it just looks so raked back and sleek... the Ro.58's a little meh, she's like a knock off of the 110 really.

It'd look great with a pair of jets: BMW 003s before the end of the war, or Derwents just after it, in either case carried well forward of the wing to maintain the same CofG. The undercarriage would need a re-think though.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Weaver on July 27, 2009, 11:38:03 AM
Another Italian twin (and another Special Hobby kit  :wub:) the somewhat odd Fiat Cr.25, which could be a transport or a long range fighter depending on the version:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hannants.co.uk%2Fpics%2FSH72036.jpg&hash=7c9ace632d1e74324ea6f3ff190bbd7e21cbd014)

Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Sauragnmon on July 27, 2009, 12:34:57 PM
Or like other older design transport planes, it could double as a bomber.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Weaver on July 27, 2009, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: apophenia on July 27, 2009, 06:49:04 PM


There at least two SAI 207 kits (in resin, naturalmente).

LF Models 7218 in 1/48
http://www.stormomagazine.com/ModelArticles/SAI207/Ambrosini207_CB.html

RS Models 92036 in 1/72
http://www.hyperscale.com/2008/reviews/kits/rs92036reviewpm_1.htm

That RS 1/72nd one is injection actually.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: raafif on July 28, 2009, 05:42:25 PM
the SM.91 prototype was accidentally shot down by a Mc-205 who thought it was a P-38 -- would some of these whif designs cause more blue-on-blue events ??
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: NARSES2 on July 29, 2009, 02:15:37 AM
LF do the F6 (I've got it), I've also got the RS 207 - nice kit

http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=LF72074 (http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=LF72074)





Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: ysi_maniac on October 09, 2018, 02:29:45 AM
I dislike Centauro's canopy. So, what do you prefer?

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2FG55_canopy.jpeg&hash=46e1dffbdc8132a42f979095cf569a1039784893) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/G55_canopy.jpeg.html)
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Dizzyfugu on October 09, 2018, 02:43:28 AM
None of these, better give it a true bubble canopy?
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Lord_Voyager on October 09, 2018, 05:05:26 AM
Ooooo yeah. I could definitely see this with a Sea Fury bubble or even Spitfire Mk.24? NOT a mustang canopy though.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: NARSES2 on October 09, 2018, 06:24:40 AM
Of those two I'd go for the Spitfire canopy rather than the Zero one
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: perttime on October 09, 2018, 09:18:03 AM
A Seafire 17 canopy should work.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: jcf on October 09, 2018, 10:36:43 AM
Just use a FIAT G59 canopy.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airwar.ru%2Fimage%2Fidop%2Fother%2Fg59%2Fg59-5.jpg&hash=a2411b0f34984e5ea00c04310c570faa5ce7f0e4)
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: ysi_maniac on October 09, 2018, 04:25:30 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on October 09, 2018, 06:24:40 AM
Of those two I'd go for the Spitfire canopy rather than the Zero one
It is not Spitfire, it is F4U Corsair
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: NARSES2 on October 10, 2018, 12:24:21 AM
Quote from: ysi_maniac on October 09, 2018, 04:25:30 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on October 09, 2018, 06:24:40 AM
Of those two I'd go for the Spitfire canopy rather than the Zero one
It is not Spitfire, it is F4U Corsair

Ooops, my mistake  :banghead:
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: ysi_maniac on October 10, 2018, 08:13:00 AM
 &lt;_&lt; I think that italian cockpit where broader, in american style, than british or german or russian cockpits. But I can be wrong  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: ysi_maniac on October 11, 2018, 08:32:59 PM
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FWRK%2FitalianWWII_CS.jpg&hash=1bc32efd4238c38cff34134123ecae7961b9f9bc) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/WRK/italianWWII_CS.jpg.html)

In this order: Folgore, Veltro, Orione, and Centauro. Last one is a creation by Gabrielli, the others by Castoldi

Do you know why italian fighter were so similar, particularly cockpit area look the same? Did Castoldi and Gabrielli share papers?
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Dizzyfugu on October 12, 2018, 12:22:36 AM
AFAIK, Italian pilots were VERY conservative concerning the cockpit and the canopy. At least during the early WWII phases, they literally fought against closed cockpits, hence the open cockpit of the Fiat G.50. I am not certain if this had still an influence on the later designs, I guess that Italian designers were just lagging behind due to the earlier "problems" with the crews.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: NARSES2 on October 13, 2018, 02:23:07 AM
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on October 12, 2018, 12:22:36 AM
AFAIK, Italian pilots were VERY conservative concerning the cockpit and the canopy. At least during the early WWII phases, they literally fought against closed cockpits, hence the open cockpit of the Fiat G.50.

Very true Dizzy and it wasn't just the Italian A.F. either, although they did hang on longer. The R.A.F. and French Air Forces were also prone to this conservatism and quite possibly other air forces were as well. To some extent it's understandable, at least in the mid 30's, with expected operational heights still being relatively low enclosed canopies were seen as simply affecting the pilots vision for no advantage. It was really only with the increase in operational heights that this conservatism was overcome.

Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: ysi_maniac on November 08, 2018, 05:51:56 AM
Overcrossing Dora-Veltro
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2FDoraVeltro_X.jpg&hash=08f6f0626889a3496926966e756e3bd5ab89eca1) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/DoraVeltro_X.jpg.html)

IMO top one is beautiful, and bottom one is extreme.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Dizzyfugu on November 08, 2018, 06:10:19 AM
A shorter Fw 190 fuselage would IMHO look better? The Italian scheme suits the Fw 190 well, though.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: major on November 08, 2018, 09:29:08 AM

Have to say, do like the top one. Very sleek. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: jcf on November 08, 2018, 12:55:24 PM
Piaggio P.119:

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/p119.html

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airwar.ru%2Fimage%2Fidop%2Ffww2%2Fp119%2Fp119-1.gif&hash=4508b1dde229b7d484bdc7e6cfc4a2085e6dd8a8)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airwar.ru%2Fimage%2Fidop%2Ffww2%2Fp119%2Fp119-3.jpg&hash=cc96c39641a6deb5ed15747a3038c1330aef54c6)

Early layout concept:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alieuomini.it%2Ffiles%2Fanteprima%2Fmedium%2F119_e%2C6616.jpg&hash=2a4dd30445965b305e9067b69bc02efe643336b8)
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 08, 2018, 01:56:24 PM
A RADIAL engine in the middle of the fuselage? That's different for sure.

Cooling must have been a bit of a problem I'd have thought.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: zenrat on November 08, 2018, 03:41:26 PM
Cooling air ducted in from under the leading edge by he look of it.
Which will be a high pressure area in flight but ground running could lead to overheating unless there is some sort of fan.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: Weaver on November 08, 2018, 09:07:29 PM
Using that as a guide, you could imagine converting any centrifugal-jet-engined fighter to a mid-engined prop-job by replacing the jet with a radial. IIRC, I worked out that a Centaurus would fit in place of a Nene, so prop Sea Hawk, prop Attacker, prop Panther all become possible.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 09, 2018, 12:49:48 AM
A Centaurus engined Swift, just what RAF Fighter Command would have needed.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: zenrat on November 09, 2018, 09:54:12 PM
Cogs are turning...
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: NARSES2 on November 14, 2018, 02:18:51 AM
I've got a kit of that Piaggio  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: MiB on December 02, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
What if....?

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F2hhn3ur.jpg&hash=032a20402c8cef66fe873367c241c560b044ab8a)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2Fzwdpg.jpg&hash=b24c3fc73ae92ef71a2d52fa0ed78f8842bb8da9)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2Fmhfr4z.jpg&hash=506d379ea989e7bdf48825152ee72e3c59c9e82c)
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: NARSES2 on December 03, 2018, 06:54:17 AM
Particularly like the "Shinden" . I assume it is, rather than a development of the S.A.I. SS4 ?
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: The Wooksta! on December 03, 2018, 01:54:36 PM
Quote from: Weaver on November 08, 2018, 09:07:29 PM
Using that as a guide, you could imagine converting any centrifugal-jet-engined fighter to a mid-engined prop-job by replacing the jet with a radial. IIRC, I worked out that a Centaurus would fit in place of a Nene, so prop Sea Hawk, prop Attacker, prop Panther all become possible.

I've had all the bits for a Centaurus Attacker in a box for some time but have yet to do any gluing.  It would have been the Supemarine answer to the Mustang FTB
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 03, 2018, 04:25:55 PM
Quote from: The Wooksta! on December 03, 2018, 01:54:36 PM

I've had all the bits for a Centaurus Attacker in a box for some time but have yet to do any gluing.  It would have been the Supemarine answer to the Mustang FTB


So a Centaurus powered Swift would be well on the cards, hmmmmmmmmmm...........
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: The Wooksta! on December 03, 2018, 07:31:28 PM
Not from me, anyway!  I've enough Spitfires to build and the few Swifts that are in The Plan (4 max) are just an epilogue.
Title: Re: Italian WWII Fighters
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 03, 2018, 10:15:45 PM
I have one that's not destined to be an FR5...........  ;D ;)