What if

Picture Post => Current and Finished Projects => Topic started by: MartG on November 27, 2008, 12:31:07 PM

Title: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: MartG on November 27, 2008, 12:31:07 PM
By 2010 it was becoming apparent to the Royal Navy that thanks to ongoing political wrangling over 'sensitive technology' it was in real danger of not getting its F-35B aircraft, and was likely to end up with two shiny new aircraft carriers with no aircraft to fly off them. Several options were considered, and it was eventually decided to follow up two proposals – one to refurbish a number of Sea Harrier FA.2s and embark them along with a number of GR.9 Harriers, and the second to alter the carriers to operate CTOL aircraft by installing catapults and an angled flight deck ( the ships were already designed with this modification in mind ). Due to limited space only relatively small aircraft could be accommodated, and it was agreed to procure a number of BAe Sea Hawk II aircraft, in two versions, for the new carrier squadrons.

The Sea Hawk II is based on the USN T-45 Goshawk in so far as its carrier compatibility is concerned ( tailhook, uprated landing gear, revised airbrakes etc. ), with the GR.1 utilising the forward fuselage and systems from the Hawk 100 family. Similarly the F.1 variant uses the forward fuselage of the Hawk 200 family.

Forward fuselages from an Italeri Hawk 100 and Matchbox Hawk 200, rear fuselages, wings, nosewheel bays etc. from a couple of Italeri T-45 Goshawks

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg395.imageshack.us%2Fimg395%2F3067%2Fdscf8975kc4.jpg&hash=ddeb66605ef5e8a15e33457b696e88967d8c823c) (http://imageshack.us)
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Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: kitnut617 on November 27, 2008, 12:36:32 PM
I like !!!!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: deathjester on November 27, 2008, 02:41:58 PM
What a brilliant idea!  Do the Hawks carrying LGB's have designators too, or is there seperate equipment for that?
Also, is there a tanker aircraft in the offing, similar to the US Navy KA-6?
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: MartG on November 27, 2008, 02:55:29 PM
Quote from: deathjester on November 27, 2008, 02:41:58 PM
What a brilliant idea!  Do the Hawks carrying LGB's have designators too, or is there seperate equipment for that?
Also, is there a tanker aircraft in the offing, similar to the US Navy KA-6?

Nope - just a laser rangefinder/marked target seeker, though there's nothing to stop one carrying a TIALD or something similar

The Hawk's a bit small for a tanker though
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: pyro-manic on November 27, 2008, 02:57:02 PM
Very cool! I like the concept, and they certainly look the part. :thumbsup:

The 200 is a bulky beast, isn't it? A very different look to the trainer versions.

What would need doing to increase the payload that the Hawk could carry? Upgraded engines, a bigger wing? You'd end up with a ScooterHawk. ;D
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: zebedee on November 27, 2008, 03:20:49 PM
I like those...

Managed to blag 5 minutes in one of the prototypes up at Warton (ZH200 i think) a couple of years ago... The 200 might look a bulky beast buts its a tight squeeze in the cockpit...

Zeb
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: fallenphoenix on November 27, 2008, 04:10:39 PM
Always loved the concept of combat Goshawks, how practicalthey may be is debaitable but they sure look cool. Suppose Brazil may be interested to replace their AF-1's  :wub:

Craig
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: Ed S on November 27, 2008, 04:22:39 PM
Nice!  You did a good job blending the various kit parts together.  I like this whole concept.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Ed
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: Rafael on November 27, 2008, 05:33:53 PM
Great ones!!!
One really would want to see something like that in real life

Rafa
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: ysi_maniac on November 28, 2008, 06:33:58 AM
Quote from: Ed S on November 27, 2008, 04:22:39 PM
Nice!  You did a good job blending the various kit parts together.  I like this whole concept.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Ed
Ageed! :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: BlackOps on November 28, 2008, 10:44:47 AM
Very nice!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: deathjester on November 28, 2008, 11:42:37 AM
This may be daft, but how difficult would it be to re-engineer the Hawk to be low observable?  That way, the Navy could field a low cost alternative to the F-35, with most of it's capabilities.
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: Hman on November 28, 2008, 11:54:25 AM
I like :wub:
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: gunfighter on November 28, 2008, 11:56:32 AM
Well, this is certainly a nice build, but I don´t think that a Hawk could be a good alternative to the JSF as a combat aircraft, even more if you are planning to deploy it overseas, which is the reason of building an aircraft carrier. If the problem is having limited room in the ship, I´d go for Rafale Ms, which are relatively small but true combat fighters.
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: deathjester on November 28, 2008, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: gunfighter on November 28, 2008, 11:56:32 AM
Well, this is certainly a nice build, but I don´t think that a Hawk could be a good alternative to the JSF as a combat aircraft, even more if you are planning to deploy it overseas, which is the reason of building an aircraft carrier. If the problem is having limited room in the ship, I´d go for Rafale Ms, which are relatively small but true combat fighters.
Actually, it's quite a good idea from the viewpoint of ease of maintenance, ease of hangarage, simplicity,agility and robustness.
  It would be easier to keep a fleet of Hawks in action for an operational tour than other combat aircraft because they are robust and relatively simple aircraft, and since spares and specialist tools would take up less room, you can pack more into the stores.           
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: GTX on November 28, 2008, 03:07:58 PM
Quote from: deathjester on November 28, 2008, 11:42:37 AM
This may be daft, but how difficult would it be to re-engineer the Hawk to be low observable?  That way, the Navy could field a low cost alternative to the F-35, with most of it's capabilities.

The hawk even in a stealthy upgraded form is in no way comparable to the F-35.  You might as well say the hawk could replace the Typhoon.

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: John Howling Mouse on November 28, 2008, 03:12:39 PM
Nice work: you made it look easy!
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: MartG on November 28, 2008, 03:20:27 PM
Quote from: gunfighter on November 28, 2008, 11:56:32 AM
I´d go for Rafale Ms, which are relatively small but true combat fighters.

I can't see the UK buying Rafales after the political issues with Eurofighter v. Rafale

Quote from: GTX on November 28, 2008, 03:07:58 PM
Quote from: deathjester on November 28, 2008, 11:42:37 AM
This may be daft, but how difficult would it be to re-engineer the Hawk to be low observable?  That way, the Navy could field a low cost alternative to the F-35, with most of it's capabilities.

The hawk even in a stealthy upgraded form is in no way comparable to the F-35.  You might as well say the hawk could replace the Typhoon.

Regards,

Greg

Yep - my backstory assumes there is a problem with getting the F-35 on time, and the Hawk is simply a stopgap
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: NARSES2 on November 29, 2008, 02:32:42 AM
I like those  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: Eddie M. on November 29, 2008, 06:09:51 AM
Great work. I really like the looks of those bad boys!
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: B777LR on November 29, 2008, 07:10:49 AM
Quote from: deathjester on November 28, 2008, 11:42:37 AM
This may be daft, but how difficult would it be to re-engineer the Hawk to be low observable?  That way, the Navy could field a low cost alternative to the F-35, with most of it's capabilities.

Might be more easy to just create an all new design...
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: gunfighter on November 29, 2008, 01:04:40 PM
Yes, sure buying the rafale would be a kick in the donkey for the british planners, but if you cancel the JSF there are only two options to embark a plane: rafale or super bug, and the second is rather big for the kind of carrier we are considering.
The hawk is small, cheap, easy to maintain, even nice  ;D, but imagine you have to deploy a task force to south east asia, and deal with those flankers...
Anyway, it´s a nice build  :bow:
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: MartG on November 29, 2008, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: gunfighter on November 29, 2008, 01:04:40 PM
Yes, sure buying the rafale would be a kick in the arse for the british planners, but if you cancel the JSF there are only two options to embark a plane: rafale or super bug,

More likely the naval version of the Typhoon which has already been considered
Title: Re: BAe Sea Hawk II
Post by: pyro-manic on November 29, 2008, 02:43:15 PM
Yup, BAE did a feasibility study for Typhoon N a few years ago, and apparently it's doable. Main differences are new, podded undercarriage, and a modified cockpit to give better landing visibility.

Sea Hawks would make a good stopgap light strike aircraft, I agree. I think the important thing would be to fit an uprated engine, and more stores pylons (possibly on an enlarged wing?).