It seems that one of the standard, possibly clichéd, Whiffer responses to the sight of any piston-engined aircraft is "turboprop it!" Well how about turning that around? Take any turboprop/turbojet/turbofan-powered flying machine and "backdate" it to the heyday of piston engines.
Peregrine-engined Tucano?
Skyvan with the engines (Lynxs?) off an Anson?
C-130 with Pratt & Whitney R-bloodybignumber multi-row radials?
Fokker F-27 with Ju-88-style Jumos?
Hey Weaver,
the Skyvan was originally piston engined (Lycomings or RR Continentals).
Quote from: JayBee on June 05, 2009, 04:09:46 AM
Hey Weaver,
the Skyvan was originally piston engined (Lycomings or RR Continentals).
Well there you go - a whiff that even a JMN would approve of! I like the idea of something more obviously dated though, like the old radials. Here's another thought: the Miles Aerovan, which, IIRC, lead to the Skyvan, had four small inline engines, possibly Gypsies? Just think how many "precious" Tiger Moths you could butcher to get four (or even six) of those for a retro-Skyvan (turboprop the leftover airframes, of course.... :wacko:)?
Quote from: Weaver on June 05, 2009, 04:18:33 AM
Quote from: JayBee on June 05, 2009, 04:09:46 AM
Hey Weaver,
the Skyvan was originally piston engined (Lycomings or RR Continentals).
Well there you go - a whiff that even a JMN would approve of! I like the idea of something more obviously dated though, like the old radials. Here's another thought: the Miles Aerovan, which, IIRC, lead to the Skyvan, had four small inline engines, possibly Gypsies? Just think how many "precious" Tiger Moths you could butcher to get four (or even six) of those for a retro-Skyvan (turboprop the leftover airframes, of course.... :wacko:)?
Or you could send the turbo prop engines to me of course ;D
i think we already had such a group build a couple of years back, try searching for the "Piston perfection GB" :mellow:
wouls be nice to do it again some day ;D
Quote from: Nils on June 05, 2009, 04:23:56 AM
i think we already had such a group build a couple of years back, try searching for the "Piston perfection GB"
That's what I thought when I saw the title, but this seems substantially different. The Piston Perfection GB was about building the ultimate piston engined aircraft - this seems to be about backdating and anachronism.
And it sounds interesting - I've had an idea for a while of taking an Il-28 and turning it into a late-war "Mitchell-style" bomber or bulding a twin piston-engined Frogfoot. And then there's Cheranovsky's tail-less twin pusher Sea Vixen - - -
Took the words right out of my mouth, McGreig: that's exactly what I meant. :thumbsup:
The Piston Perfection GB was early 2008, by the way.
I love it, and since i have been a World War II kick lately the timing is perfect. Love the look of Radials too.
Quote from: McGreig on June 05, 2009, 09:05:43 AM
And it sounds interesting - I've had an idea for a while of taking an Il-28 and turning it into a late-war "Mitchell-style" bomber or bulding a twin piston-engined Frogfoot. And then there's Cheranovsky's tail-less twin pusher Sea Vixen - - -
I like the idea of the piston engined IL-28, but how about taking a leaf out of Tophe's book and put FOUR piston engines on it, a push-me/pull-you pair on each side? -_-
It'd need a new NATO name of course, with only one syllable. How about 'Bug'?
Quote from: Weaver on June 05, 2009, 04:18:33 AM
Well there you go - a whiff that even a JMN would approve of! I like the idea of something more obviously dated though, like the old radials. Here's another thought: the Miles Aerovan, which, IIRC, lead to the Skyvan, had four small inline engines, possibly Gypsies? Just think how many "precious" Tiger Moths you could butcher to get four (or even six) of those for a retro-Skyvan (turboprop the leftover airframes, of course.... :wacko:)?
Aerovan and related :
Miles M.57 Aerovan, two 150 hp Blackburn Cirrus Major III
Miles M.68 Boxcar (Aerovan with removable freight pod), four 100 hp Blackburn Cirrus Minor II
Miles M.72 Aerovan (four-engined Aerovan), four 100 hp Blackburn Cirrus Minor II
Miles M.62 Freighter (think
big Aerovan), two 1,600 hp Wright R-2600
Miles M.57A Aerovan (enlarged Aerovan), two 340 hp A-S Cheetah X
Miles M.71 Merchantman (enlarged all-metal Aerovan with Marathon wing), four 250 hp D-H Gipsy Queen 30
H.D.M 105 (test aircraft, standard Aerovan fuselage with Hurel-Dubois high-aspect ratio wing), two Blackburn Cirrus Major III
H.D.M 106 Caravan (larger all-metal development of 105, project only), two 290 hp Lycoming GO-480 or 340 hp Lycoming GSO-480B
or two 320 hp Turbomeca Astazou. The Caravan design was sold to Shorts and led to the Skyvan.
H.D.M 107 Aerojeep (106 designed to meet requirements for US Army light STOL aircraft, otherwise as 106)
Shorts S.C. 7 Skyvan (P.D.36 developed along basic
theme of H.D.M 106 but not
from same), two flat-six 390 hp Continental GTS IO-520.
A Skyvan with helmeted cowls ala the A-S Cheetah VI powered Anson I would look quite fetching, although realistically you'd want the
increased power (420 hp) of the Cheetah XV of the later Ansons.
Jon
I think I might have a go at this one. I have a dead IL-28 in the bone yard, and some merlin engines donated by Wooksta. I also have some gun turrets from a Shorts Sunderland also so I could put one just behind the cockpit. I think the tail fin can come off and a twin tail put on it, and a hand aimed gun in the nose glazing would look the part.
I am thinking it could be a late war joint British/Soviet design as a soviet answer to the mosquito or beaufighter.......ish/maybe.
Chris.
Pilatus PC-9 with a straight-8. Forget CG issues, make the engine look like it was straight out of 1919.
Dash 8/Q-400 with a narrow bore crankcase radial consisting of two rows of 3 cylinders, cloth control surfaces and winglets, etc.
DC-8 with four X-24 piston engines.....the X-24 is essentially four inline 6 cyl. engines fused together and arranged in an X when viewed from the front. Liquid cooled, NOX injected for takeoff.
Daryl J.
A-10 with twin R-R Crecy engines instead of turbofans, driving 5 blade contraprops for that extra bit of 'oomph'!!
I think I've mentioned it before- I recall seeing a near-perfect RC model of F-16 powered by a propeller engine when I was in elementary school......
A lightened and probably slightly scaled-down F-16 replica for aerobatic or even light attack?
Quote from: Daryl J. on June 05, 2009, 04:26:51 PM
... make the engine look like it was straight out of 1919.
Or a Buick. ;)
Don't forget to consider the buried engine with shaft-driven prop(s) alternative for those jet to piston conversions.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi729.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww291%2Fjoncarrfarrelly%2FNAA_XBOMBER_01.png&hash=fb3c6e628dbd4358ff031cf42a92c7e85d9ee120)
Jet fighters and the like have a lot of internal volume.
Jon
Your post makes me think, Mr Carffarrelly...how about opening this GB up to re-enging jet planes with piston engines too?
:cheers:
Brian da Basher
Quote from: Brian da Basher on June 06, 2009, 12:38:29 PM
Your post makes me think, Mr Carffarrelly...how about opening this GB up to re-enging jet planes with piston engines too?
:cheers:
Brian da Basher
Umm, can't, 'cos it already is:
Quote from: Weaver
Take any turboprop/turbojet/turbofan-powered flying machine and "backdate" it to the heyday of piston engines.
;D
How about a SR-71 with Pratt & Whitney R-4360s? :wacko:
Regards,
Greg
Quote from: GTX on June 07, 2009, 03:40:09 AM
How about a SR-71 with Pratt & Whitney R-4360s? :wacko:
Regards,
Greg
Think it would probably need 4 x R-8720s....... :wacko:
Quote from: Weaver on June 07, 2009, 04:50:38 AM
Quote from: GTX on June 07, 2009, 03:40:09 AM
How about a SR-71 with Pratt & Whitney R-4360s? :wacko:
Regards,
Greg
Think it would probably need 4 x R-8720s....... :wacko:
Or maybe eight? Quad engine pods with an engine either end?
Well are we doing this are we? can we? please please please.
I have dug out my dead IL-28, a Short Sunderland gun turret, some radial engines from an S-2 tracker, I was going to use a pair of Merlins, but the radials look good (easier to fit ;D) and I am going to put a pair of sunderland props on it. Also I have some rockets that came from a skyraider, I am going to hang 8 of those on the wings, and maybe the mother of all torpedo's underneath it.
Chris.
What about a train locomotive that uses traditional internal combustion engines to drive the wheels rather than steam. Fuel could be diesel, gasoline, or ethanol/water in banks of inline 6 cylinder engines mounted transversely. One engine per set of driving wheels.
Quote from: Daryl J. on June 09, 2009, 04:06:04 PM
What about a train locomotive that uses traditional internal combustion engines to drive the wheels rather than steam. Fuel could be diesel, gasoline, or ethanol/water in banks of inline 6 cylinder engines mounted transversely. One engine per set of driving wheels.
Technically speaking diesel locomotives use internal combustion engines to drive the wheels. ;)
However, I realize you are speaking of
direct mechanical drive and it is used on small engines (shunters and the like) and has been experimented with on larger machines. Also diesel-hydraulic drive systems have been used.
The Wiki on the subject of diesel locomotives is a good starting point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotive
Jon
Daryl is suggesting the engines are mounted sideways in the locomotive frames, with each engine driving its own set of driving wheels. I'm pretty sure that hasn't been tried in the railway (railroad.....) field so far.
Mind you, it would make for a pretty wide loco body, and a humunguous gear train down to the axles.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on June 10, 2009, 01:58:01 AM
Daryl is suggesting the engines are mounted sideways in the locomotive frames, with each engine driving its own set of driving wheels. I'm pretty sure that hasn't been tried in the railway (railroad.....) field so far.
Mind you, it would make for a pretty wide loco body, and a humunguous gear train down to the axles.
And where would you put the bombs/rockets/missiles/guns/torpedos on it. :blink:
QuoteAnd where would you put the bombs/rockets/missiles/guns/torpedos on it.
Have you seen pictures of some of those old Soviet Ekranoplans? :wub: :wub: :wub:
Regarding the locomotive engines, with a transverse mount, the idea is to avoid changing the rotational directions as much as possible. And make the bore as narrow as possible, stroke as long as possible, and try avoid an engine length issue in order to use current guage rails.
Back to the WIG, 'WW-1 ing' a Lun might be cool.
Daryl J.
Quote from: chrisonord on June 10, 2009, 07:33:41 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on June 10, 2009, 01:58:01 AM
Daryl is suggesting the engines are mounted sideways in the locomotive frames, with each engine driving its own set of driving wheels. I'm pretty sure that hasn't been tried in the railway (railroad.....) field so far.
Mind you, it would make for a pretty wide loco body, and a humunguous gear train down to the axles.
And where would you put the bombs/rockets/missiles/guns/torpedos on it. :blink:
Wherever the gunsight pipper falls, presumably...... :wacko:
Weaver
Not popular in the rail-oriented LHS for describing trains as "linear targets" :thumbsup:
Another option would be some pistonated (that sounds so bad) airliners - 737 with props etc.
Regards,
Greg
Quote from: Daryl J. on June 10, 2009, 09:35:44 AM
And make the bore as narrow as possible, stroke as long as possible, and try avoid an engine length issue in order to use current guage rails.
Daryl,
Have you ever seen pics of an East African Railways Garratt?
It has a boiler about the same size a UP Challenger with a 4-8-4 engine at BOTH ends, and it runs on 3 ft gauge track. Width isn't really an issue, you'd need a gear box to get the drive from the engine to the axles anyway and that will raise the engine to footplate level.
A good page on the Paxman 'Fell' diesel-mechanical loco:
http://www.paxmanhistory.org.uk/paxfell.htm
Jon
Heavens above, that brings back memories!
I saw that thing running on the WCML in the late 50s. It was certainly noisy (but not as noisy as a Rotodyne.............) and those connecting rods flying round looked most impressive. We'd actually gone to try and see the two LM main line diesels, 1000 and 1001 but we saw the Fell instead, much more impressive.
Something went through my little grey cells lastnight and then I put the drink down, I also had a idea.................... :drink:
A Wyvern with a radial engine and a contra prop ;D
That'd look like a Super Firebrand. Nice one! ;D
One could always make something appear older than its actual time frame. It's kinda hard to explain, but take the Wright Flyer, for instance, and put it in 1776, 1865, or the like using design cues from those eras. Weight/power problems be d*m*ed...... :drink: Cloth wings and fixed gear on the Hawker Hurricane with an 'old style', somewhat exposed engine for a retro look where retro does not necessarily mean earlier Hawker aircraft. Etc. Etc. Etc.
:cheers:,
Daryl J.
How about a WWII V-22 Osprey put a pair of those Big honkin Lancaster Merlins on it,you would have to reroute the inboard exaust stacks to have it out of the way.other additions the chin turret off of a B-17G also the Bendix dorsal turret or the Martin one off a B-26 and have a B-25 type tail gun position ;D ;D ;D What ya think???
I'm MAD I tell you Mad,Mad,Mad!!!
"Panzer"
Quote from: PanzerWulff on June 12, 2009, 06:57:10 PM
How about a WWII V-22 Osprey put a pair of those Big honkin Lancaster Merlins on it,you would have to reroute the inboard exaust stacks to have it out of the way.other additions the chin turret off of a B-17G also the Bendix dorsal turret or the Martin one off a B-26 and have a B-25 type tail gun position ;D ;D ;D What ya think???
I'm MAD I tell you Mad,Mad,Mad!!!
"Panzer"
Brilliant! :thumbsup:
I did this to an Airfix Caravelle a while back:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whatifmodelers.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D23965.0%3Battach%3D21818%3Bimage&hash=55a49083ac6378c4d720cf56fe38b08303ce5468)
The thread is Here (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,23965.0.html).
I've got a few ideas for turning piston-engined airliners into jets too...
:cheers:
Brian da Basher
Thats Pretty BDB :wub:
Had BdB hung those nacelles off the backs of the wings, we'd have renamed him to PdP.....Props d'Pusher!
Yeah...that Caravelle is awesome. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Daryl J.
I hope this goes through came up with a great idea last night :wacko: