Always been a favourite of mine. I was thinking about the use of the Beaufighter after World War II and came up with the idea of deleting the rear turret and adding large calibre rockets under the wings. Weight can be saved by deleting the wing machine guns and there is always room under the fuselage for extra fuel. Photos to follow.
Great idea ! I've always wanted to do a Merlin powered Beaufighter....they just look so tough !
:drink:
I've got one in my stash that I'm planning on re-engining with R-2800s, deleting the turret & painting it in SEA camo as a USAF COIN a/c, weaponed accordingly. I've always liked the looks of the Beau.
Err, Beaufighters didn't have a turret. The navigator had a clear canopy but that didn't even mount a gun until later versions and even then, its traverse was so limited and the fin blocked so much of it, its value was very limited (and more often than not even carried).
You could I suppose cut down the rear fuselage and eliminate the Navigator's position but who'd then load the fresh drums on the 20mm cannon? You'd also have to enlarge the fin significantly to take into account the loss of keel surface, while the tailplanes would also I'd suggest need to be enlarged to cure the associated problems with swing which were only cured when they applied some pretty deep dihedral to the tailplanes.
Quote from: Captain Canada on July 23, 2009, 02:25:23 PM
Great idea ! I've always wanted to do a Merlin powered Beaufighter....they just look so tough !
:drink:
Oh yes!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv634%2Fsae05%2FMkIIf052.jpg&hash=5734d3527c5a03c5fbda133150c7dd4f96fdbdf0)
;D
Quote from: rickshaw on July 24, 2009, 12:59:13 AM
Err, Beaufighters didn't have a turret. The navigator had a clear canopy but that didn't even mount a gun until later versions and even then, its traverse was so limited and the fin blocked so much of it, its value was very limited (and more often than not even carried).
Wello, that's not quite true you know...the Mk.V had a four-gun Boulton Paul turret mounted on the fuselage just aft of the cockpit...although there were only ever two built, they did both see operational service...apparently they was crap!...:)
I know the point of the Beaufighter was to use the Beaufort wing jigs, but if they had decided to go to more trouble over it, I wonder what the resultant slim-fuselage Beaufighter might have looked like? Approaching the condition of a radial-engined Hornet I suspect.... :wub:
The other thing I'd like to do to a Beaufighter is give the cannons belt-feed and then move the Nav forward to a position behind the pilot, where he could be far more effective (back-up pilot, torpedo-aiming etc...): effectively a Mark -1 Brigand.
Over on another forum, seceret projects maybe, I remember a short discussion on the slimmed-down proposal.
Quote from: Weaver on July 24, 2009, 04:18:47 AM
I know the point of the Beaufighter was to use the Beaufort wing jigs, but if they had decided to go to more trouble over it, I wonder what the resultant slim-fuselage Beaufighter might have looked like? Approaching the condition of a radial-engined Hornet I suspect.... :wub:
The other thing I'd like to do to a Beaufighter is give the cannons belt-feed and then move the Nav forward to a position behind the pilot, where he could be far more effective (back-up pilot, torpedo-aiming etc...): effectively a Mark -1 Brigand.
Quote from: Zeke on July 24, 2009, 01:57:32 AM
Quote from: rickshaw on July 24, 2009, 12:59:13 AM
Err, Beaufighters didn't have a turret. The navigator had a clear canopy but that didn't even mount a gun until later versions and even then, its traverse was so limited and the fin blocked so much of it, its value was very limited (and more often than not even carried).
Wello, that's not quite true you know...the Mk.V had a four-gun Boulton Paul turret mounted on the fuselage just aft of the cockpit...although there were only ever two built, they did both see operational service...apparently they was crap!...:)
I think if they had used a Hercules powered version it might have been better, the Merlin powered Beaufighter's handling wasn't the best. But then the Air Ministry was obsessed with the turreted fighter concept at the time and tried to put turrets onto anything.
Grabbed a Beaufighter today...now I just have to dig out one of my derelict Lancs.....
:party:
Quote from: Weaver on July 24, 2009, 04:18:47 AM
The other thing I'd like to do to a Beaufighter is give the cannons belt-feed and then move the Nav forward to a position behind the pilot, where he could be far more effective (back-up pilot, torpedo-aiming etc...): effectively a Mark -1 Brigand.
They did have belt-feed, reading the book about John Cunningham's Nightfighter exploits written by his navigator Rawnsley (I think), he describes how he had to reload the guns originally but then they were switch and he doesn't say anything more about having to reload. There's a photo in Beaufighter in Action of the original gun on page 43, and another photo of the belt-fed guns on page 12. As an aside the 60 round drum gun was the type put into the Lincoln/Shackleton dorsal turret (at least that's what the parts look like which Aeroclub put out)
Suggest merger with this thread (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,22202.0.html).
Regards,
Greg
Only the first 400 Beaus had the drums on the cannons, from airframe 401on the guns were equipped with the Chatellerault recoil-operated belt feed.
Ironically, Bristol had designed and tested an almost identical (and actually superior) recoil-operated feed months before the Chatellerault system drawings arrived in Britain with Free French officers. The MAP had rejected the Bristol recoil-operated design but had approved another Bristol design for a compressed-air motor servo feed that used a continuous belt. The servo feed was to go into production on aircraft 51, but with the official change to the Chatellerault system introduction of belt-feed was delayed until September 1941 with aircraft 401. Either Bristol design could have been in service a year earlier.
Aside from feed mechanism, the cannons themselves were basically the same.
Jon
Super Sweet Plane :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Always thought Bristol made 'Top Notch' Aircraft :thumbsup: Keep up the Great Work,Anything as Cool Coming????? :cheers:
With the "new" Revell TF.X out in 1/72nd, proposed models are:
a REAL TF.X from 1949
USN/USMC Sea Blue Gloss folded wing Beau
RAF 2-gun turreted example...4 cannon plus the turret.
Something else??
A Biggles example from "Biggles Delivers The Goods"...standard SEAC colouring, but ship launched TF.X, so even though it's RAF, a modified camouflage? Dark Blue replacing the Dark Green?
:party:
>USN/USMC Sea Blue Gloss folded wing Beau
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dataviewbooks.com%2Fbeau4.jpg&hash=04986548e31a9217a3d9b6324e0ba6c3e652d334)
not quite that, but close ;-)
Chris
-----------------------------------
http://www.dataviewbooks.com/p-51h.html
Quote from: apophenia on August 15, 2009, 05:38:41 PM
Has anyone ever suggested a twin-boom Beaufighter?
Funnily enough yes - in this thread (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,22202.0.html).
Regards,
Greg
Can You Guys Just Picture the 'Black Sheep' Squadron Flying Beaufighters??????? would No Offense,"Scare the Knickers" off of the Japanese if they Had them!!!!! :wacko: :cheers:
Quote from: Radish on August 15, 2009, 03:04:26 AM
Something else??
A Biggles example from "Biggles Delivers The Goods"...standard SEAC colouring, but ship launched TF.X, so even though it's RAF, a modified camouflage? Dark Blue replacing the Dark Green?
Given the vile swing that the aircraft had on takeoff, you would have to be mental to attempt it from a carrier.
Superior British flying lol
Quote from: Barry Krell on August 16, 2009, 05:08:05 AM
Quote from: Radish on August 15, 2009, 03:04:26 AM
Something else??
A Biggles example from "Biggles Delivers The Goods"...standard SEAC colouring, but ship launched TF.X, so even though it's RAF, a modified camouflage? Dark Blue replacing the Dark Green?
Given the vile swing that the aircraft had on takeoff, you would have to be mental to attempt it from a carrier.
Because the Seafire was such a suitable platform for carrier ops....I wouldn't have had the courage to fly a Seafire (well, take off and land in a Seafire if we're being precise)
Quote from: Barry Krell on August 16, 2009, 05:08:05 AM
Quote from: Radish on August 15, 2009, 03:04:26 AM
Something else??
A Biggles example from "Biggles Delivers The Goods"...standard SEAC colouring, but ship launched TF.X, so even though it's RAF, a modified camouflage? Dark Blue replacing the Dark Green?
Given the vile swing that the aircraft had on takeoff, you would have to be mental to attempt it from a carrier.
Simple solution, the Seaufighter (pronounced SO-Fighter ;D ) variant has handed engines.
:cheers:
Here it says that Beaufighter was equipped with Griffon engines. Is that true?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Griffon
Quote from: ysi_maniac on April 26, 2012, 08:15:20 AM
Here it says that Beaufighter was equipped with Griffon engines. Is that true?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Griffon
Nah! They've got brain fade there, unless it was a one-off trials aircraft perhaps?
I've never heard of it but it would make a good Whiff, wouldn't it? ;)
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 26, 2012, 08:36:00 AM
Quote from: ysi_maniac on April 26, 2012, 08:15:20 AM
Here it says that Beaufighter was equipped with Griffon engines. Is that true?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Griffon
Nah! They've got brain fade there, unless it was a one-off trials aircraft perhaps?
I've never heard of it but it would make a good Whiff, wouldn't it? ;)
Yes, they trialled it. There's a nice pic of it in the recent Key Publishing special on the Beau.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fspecials.keypublishing.com%2Fcentral%2Fimages%2Fcovers%2Flarge%2F3084.jpg&hash=2bc4adccfcbcf5c2874be056b586cd6aaf37449c) (//http://)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn-www.airliners.net%2Faviation-photos%2Fmiddle%2F9%2F0%2F3%2F1987309.jpg&hash=32afb1091c8a5db5431b96a973e03e922ebae279)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.luchtoorlog.be%2Fimg%2Fbeau%2Fmon74_39b.jpg&hash=98f2305dc8fc1fb9d2c21274f244f5292680975e)
Cheers,
Logan
Darn it! :banghead:
But a 'production' one with service markings would look good I'm sure. As well as go like CRAZY! ;D
[Later] Just looked at the pics again, that must be a pretty early modification as it's still got the 'arrowhead' type radar installed.
I was going to do a Griffon one at some stage, just need some bits - namely a Magna Beaufighter II conversion, a pair of Frog/Novo Firefly I fuselages and a lot of filler. I also thought about twin fins too.
Oops, just remembered I gave away my last Airfix Beaufighter (the Magna kit is geared to go with this kit).
Take a look at http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,31451.msg483259.html#msg483259, chaps.
;D ;D
Yikes, the Griffon Beau has taken a bit of a battering with the ugly stick! :blink:
Nice work on your TF.11, kitbasher!
I have a half-finished SeaBeau (TF.21) on the bench - folding wings, 4-blade, handed props, oil coolers moved to the cowlings (away from the fold), wing guns deleted in favour of extra fuel, slipper tanks, etc. Torn between overall Gloss Sea Blue and BPF markings, or overall sky with EDSG uppers (Korea maybe?)
Quote from: pyro-manic on April 26, 2012, 12:15:28 PM
Yikes, the Griffon Beau has taken a bit of a battering with the ugly stick! :blink:
Nice work on your TF.11, kitbasher!
I have a half-finished SeaBeau (TF.21) on the bench - folding wings, 4-blade, handed props, oil coolers moved to the cowlings (away from the fold), wing guns deleted in favour of extra fuel, slipper tanks, etc. Torn between overall Gloss Sea Blue and BPF markings, or overall sky with EDSG uppers (Korea maybe?)
Thank you - and Sky with EDSG uppers in Korea markings - yes, yes, yes!
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 26, 2012, 09:03:14 AM
Darn it! :banghead:
But a 'production' one with service markings would look good I'm sure. As well as go like CRAZY! ;D
[Later] Just looked at the pics again, that must be a pretty early modification as it's still got the 'arrowhead' type radar installed.
There's even a photo of it in Squadron's 'Beaufighter in Action' book, which has been out for god knows when ---
same as Logan's second pic there
Quote from: kitbasher on April 26, 2012, 12:52:50 PM
- and Sky with EDSG uppers in Korea markings - yes, yes, yes!
Agreed
That's that one decided then. ;D
Some ideas about Beaufighter with tricycle uc
Cargo
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2Fbeaufighter_cargo.jpg&hash=8944691afc1a9fed1f411323d47c5d990b58025a)
Several bombers
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2Fbeaufighter_bomber1.jpg&hash=4e9396e87f6bf481a707a026b980af3a83a4f074)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2Fbeaufighter_bomber2.jpg&hash=b248f73037e83aa476bde12e644eb9d2dc76faf1)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2Fbeaufighter_bomber3.jpg&hash=162db19e46de8fa36587d0f984d04012f521736f)
Interesting ideas with tricycle undercart :thumbsup: You've now got me thinking of a FAA Beaufighter
Full circle. Beaufort bomber - Beaufighter - Beaufighter bomber...
I prefer this concept
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2Fbeaufighter_bomber4.jpg&hash=50dfb3976dbf10e1adf0ef5495053424c9159d80)
Looks rather like the Ta154 doesn't it?
Quote from: rickshaw on June 01, 2012, 07:47:24 PM
Looks rather like the Ta154 doesn't it?
Yup, does bear a resemblence
Quote from: ysi_maniac on June 01, 2012, 10:42:48 AM
I prefer this concept
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2Fbeaufighter_bomber4.jpg&hash=50dfb3976dbf10e1adf0ef5495053424c9159d80)
Looks too much like the least aggressive aircraft ever - the Percival Pembroke - to me!
Quote from: ysi_maniac on May 29, 2012, 06:06:05 PM
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2Fbeaufighter_bomber1.jpg&hash=4e9396e87f6bf481a707a026b980af3a83a4f074)
This one looks quite (but nowhere near
exactly) like a variation on the S-2 Tracker. ;)
Perhaps if the wings were raised up onto the aircraft's "shoulder"? :blink:
It is amazing that by giving it a tricycle undercarriage how similar it looks to other aircraft
Hmmm, I revive this thread, because I had - strangely - a similar idea: converting a Matchbox/Revell TF. Mk. X into something with a tricycle undercarriage, moving the wings and replacing the Hercules engines with Griffons and making an all weather sea patrol/attack aircraft for the South African Air Force from it, in EDSG/PRU Blue. Not certain when it will reach hardware stage, but the project ist on the list. :lol:
Interesting project :thumbsup:
I am already tinkering on a background story, even though it is uncertain when real work will begin. Time frame will be around 1957, when the SAAF also received its Shackletons as Sunderland replacements. The indigeniously reworked Beau (working title 'Zeeleeuw') would be the sea attack sidekick for the Shacks, adding some land-based punch until the Buccaneers arrived in the 60ies.
Various Beaufightery things have come to my attention, courtesy of AMW and the interwebs:
Alley Cat conversions for the recent Airfix kit:
Early Merlin: https://www.alleycatmodels.co.uk/bristol-beaufighter-mk2-merlin-powered-early-conversion-airfix-6624-p.asp
Late Merlin: https://www.alleycatmodels.co.uk/bristol-beaufighter-mk2-merlin-powered-later-conversion-airfix-6625-p.asp
Twin tail fins: https://www.alleycatmodels.co.uk/bristol-beaufighter-twin-tail-prototype-conversion-6620-p.asp
Anti-shimmy tail wheel: https://www.alleycatmodels.co.uk/bristol-beaufighter-anti-shimmy-twin-contact-tail-wheel-6623-p.asp
High Planes full kits:
Mk.V (Boulton-Paul 4x.303 turret): https://www.hpmhobbies.com/high-planes-bristol-beaufighter-v-turreted-mk-11-kit-1-72/
(https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server3100/41ee3/products/104/images/101/HPMK072069_BX_RevA__81255.1305691576.380.380.jpg?c=2)
Other High Planes kits and conversions:
https://www.hpmhobbies.com/search.php?search_query=beaufighter&Search=&page=1§ion=product#results
Like the idea, I have 2 Matchbox Xs too, ideas forming....
The Hi Planes Beaus are somewhat rough and the cockpit is wont not to fit, being too wide. Be v.careful in that region as the fuselage is likely to snap.
As for the Alleycat stuff... I'm likely to nab the twin fin conversion, although I'd use larger Brigand fins instead. The Merlin version is more likely to have the engines replaced with Griffons.
Is it possible to remove the gunner and cut-down the rear fuselage? Seems like it'd make the plane smaller, lighter
Quote from: KJ_Lesnick on November 04, 2018, 06:42:27 PM
Is it possible to remove the gunner and cut-down the rear fuselage? Seems like it'd make the plane smaller, lighter
They kept studying a small-fuselage Beaufighter throughout the war, but always decided that it wasn't worth disrupting production to implement. The fuselage has to be the size it is because it uses the Beaufort wing jigs with a wide centre-section for a bomber fuselage. Also, early Beaufighters needed the GIB to reload the cannons' 60-round drum magazines.
Attempts to design a narrow-fuselage Beaufighter then shifted to a design called the Buccaneer, which looked very nice but ran into weight-growth problems that needed new engines, that needed new wings etc, etc, until it eventually became a new aircraft entirely, the Brigand, that went into production right at the end of war and then got cancelled.
I know people that considers this a heresy. ;) :D
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Beaufighter_squarTail.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/72e47931-2684-43f8-803b-d61b46fe8c3b)
I wouldn't worry about it Carlos, the Beaufighter had quite a yaw problem (magnified when they put the Merlins on it and then tried the Griffons), what you've come up with is something I've always wondered why they didn't do in the first place. One of my Beaufighter builds will get something similar --- maybe just a bigger version of the original ;)
Quote from: ysi_maniac on October 10, 2021, 02:00:59 PM
I know people that considers this a heresy. ;) :D
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Beaufighter_squarTail.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/72e47931-2684-43f8-803b-d61b46fe8c3b)
Would have certainly kept it on the straight and narrow ;) :thumbsup:
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/BeaufighterMk1F_2tail.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/3d3d168b-3e45-4ed9-808f-94dd318d7331)
That's something they did in real life Carlos
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvillage.photos%2Fimages%2Fuser%2F8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f%2F218061e7-9d16-4996-ae79-bc82cba1f798.png&hash=b2eef7d33c33a97f991733001fb241685bfe727d)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52140016940_3f66e20d0e_o.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52139767324_f1d18a9e6c_o.jpg)
Beaufighter + Mosquito
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/mosquito-beaufighter.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (http://"http://"https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/mosquito-beaufighter.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds"")
The bottom one works well :thumbsup:
I'm always perplexed by how long it took to get rid of all the rounded wingtips, rudders and fins even after the Mustang showed you didn't need it for aerodynamics and it was a lot cheaper to manufacture. No one was immune from it. Probably goes back to the "it just doesn't look right" way of thinking. Just like how some aircraft like the Buffalo and the Wildcat were at least looking like they were imitating a raindrop. It was thought for a long time a raindrop was the most aerodynamic shape until high speed photography showed rain drops were round. No scientific evidence, just a lot of "why, it must be that way!" Maybe I'll do something like a Spitfire or Beaufighter with tapered wings and squared off tips. By the time I show the pics I'll be deep in the woods hiding out!
Quote from: kerick on October 05, 2023, 11:36:58 AMMaybe I'll do something like a Spitfire or Beaufighter with tapered wings and squared off tips.
That'd be a Spiteful then.
Those are some neat ideas. I love the Merlin Beau. I have a 1/48 conversion set if anybody would like to trade me a 72nd scale set.