I'm going to see if I can start on another ship for a contest later this year. Nothing big, mind you, but something more smaller that I can get done a bit quicker and won't take as long.
I'm going to build a Trumpeter 1/350 USS Independence LCS with a bit more weapons added. Today's LCS's are woefully inadequate when it comes to offensive and defensive firepower. For my LCS, I'm thinking of the following:
1 x 5"/54 (or 5"/62) gun
16 (or 32) VLS cells.
2 x Phalanx CIWS
2 quad Harpoon missile launchers (8 missiles total)
2 x Triple tube torpedo launchers
4 x .50 cal machine guns
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv216%2Ficyhusky%2FDSC03910.jpg&hash=6c5611aaaee4080cae258bd490f41f6c23db5423) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/icyhusky/media/DSC03910.jpg.html)
There's one other question I have: (Copied from another forum)
QuoteI'm going to be starting work soon on the 1/350 Trumpeter USS Independence LCS. But there's one major problem I'm having: Where's the waterline mark? I can't tell how high or low the red bottom should be as well as the placement of the black boot stripe. When other people were painting their ships, how did you figure out how to paint the bottom hull? What methods did you use?
I would suggest mounting the Torpedo tubes in a new cut out in the main hull so you can put them behind hatches, you could replace Harpoon with VLS Tomahawk, which gives the punch your looking for in land attack as well as anti-ship. You could mount the Phalanx or Sea Ram on angular shaped sponsons abreast the hanger to lower their profile and improve their arc of fire. Possibly go for a new stealth mast to allow for the extra sensors for the SAM systems
I like this idea. I'll be watching.
QuoteYou could mount the Phalanx or Sea Ram on angular shaped sponsons abreast the hanger to lower their profile and improve their arc of fire.
But I like the CIWS where they are as I want them high and I think they'd have a better firing arcs if they were higher placed rather than abreast the helo hangar.
QuotePossibly go for a new stealth mast to allow for the extra sensors for the SAM systems
What type of mast do you have in mind? Should I go with Aegis? Maybe the smaller SPY-1F version which is designed to fit frigates and other small vessels. Should I add two Mk.99 illuminators also? If so, in what area/positions?
Just get some spheres of about the right size and say the antennas are covered like the British ships.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.defensetech.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Dauntless.jpg&imgrefurl=http://defensetech.org/2012/01/31/britain-sending-air-defense-ship-to-falklands/&h=308&w=490&sz=84&tbnid=d_rQfKuYo4SumM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=148&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbritish%2Bmodern%2Bwarship%2Bpic%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=british+modern+warship+pic&usg=__v2n3AInabuynWolIL5JbxnHBSjE=&docid=MQtQj7RtDmbajM&sa=X&ei=yojlUf-qOcSn8AHojYDAAw&ved=0CEYQ9QEwCA
For the mast, you could go with a design like the Thales Integrated Mast (http://www.thalesgroup.com/integratedmast/), where all of the radars are phased array panels. More in keeping with the stealthy design than separate illuminators.
There's one major problem I'm having: Where's the waterline mark? I can't tell how high or low the red bottom should be as well as the placement of the black boot stripe. When other people were painting their ships, how did you figure out how to paint the bottom hull? What methods did you use?
I've got the Cyber Hobby 1/700 model, the painting diagram shows that the waterline mark starts just above the notch where the bow bulb starts. The marks on the floats are in line with this. From pictures I've seen, the hull bottom is a weathered charcoal black-grey, with a black bootline:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/1002dp_uss_independence_lcs_2/photo_01.html
Here's the painting diagram from the Cyber Hobby model, split over two pages:
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/misc/lcs/700-lcs2-ch/indy-Page-06.jpg
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/misc/lcs/700-lcs2-ch/indy-Page-05.jpg
Another question:
Would a ship such as the LCS that I am making benefit from having the SPY-1F Aegis radar on it? The SPY-1F is a small version at about 8 feet in diameter (1/4 of an inch in diameter in 1/350 scale) designed to fit Frigates and other smaller vessels.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/images/spy-1-variants.jpg
Or should I not put any SPY-1 radar panels on at all? The only other pic I found was this concept sketch here:
http://www.austal.com/Resources/PromotionSlides/dd47585d-170b-4e43-a80c-2d849e065b2d/mmc-new-image1-wide.jpg
Continuing from Post # 8 above.......
The main hull, bridge structure, and a few other hull pieces are all glued together now. I'm still playing around and figuring out what weapons to have and where, etc. In the pic below, I glued on 2 small black spare parts (One on either side of the superstructure) to represent more stealthy chaff dispenser launchers. If I do add SPY-1 radar on top, I may be using some spare parts from some Arleigh Burke destroyer kits I have. Though putting Aegis on the LCS means I may only have one Phalanx instead of two as originally shown in my opening thread post further above. I don't want to have Phalanx's in spots where they will interfere with the "line-of-sight" so to speak of the Aegis radar. Not sure I want the Harpoon launchers in front of the bridge structure either. I'm thinking of a possible alternative to make new 4 cell VLS Harpoon launchers on either side of the superstructure near the back end where you see the torpedo launcher. As for the torpedo launchers, I have an idea to make those more stealthy as well. ;)
Comments appreciated as always.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv216%2Ficyhusky%2Flcs2%2520phase%25202%2FDSC03920.jpg&hash=add25ad9e3ed079b42356bc23b38c2e2c8aa166a) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/icyhusky/media/lcs2%20phase%202/DSC03920.jpg.html)
I have a very, very helpful solution for you, it's called www.shipbucket.com/forums where we have parts that you're using and the base model of the Independence:
http://www.shipbucket.com/images.php?dir=Real%20Designs/United%20States%20of%20America/LCS-2%20Independence.png
Quote from: seadude on July 29, 2013, 05:33:35 PM
Another question:
Would a ship such as the LCS that I am making benefit from having the SPY-1F Aegis radar on it? The SPY-1F is a small version at about 8 feet in diameter (1/4 of an inch in diameter in 1/350 scale) designed to fit Frigates and other smaller vessels.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/images/spy-1-variants.jpg
Or should I not put any SPY-1 radar panels on at all? The only other pic I found was this concept sketch here:
http://www.austal.com/Resources/PromotionSlides/dd47585d-170b-4e43-a80c-2d849e065b2d/mmc-new-image1-wide.jpg
If you want to add SAMs, (and given the VLS, I think you do), you'll need a fire control system. SPY-1 would be an excellent option, so go for it.
Just got done adding the SPY-1 radars tonight and boy, does it look sweet! ;D To the best of my ability considering I currently have a cataract, I do believe I got the pieces in the right positions and at the right angles, etc. :thumbsup: Pics to come tomorrow night.
Awesome, can't wait to see them
Quote from: seadude on July 31, 2013, 08:21:58 PM
Just got done adding the SPY-1 radars tonight and boy, does it look sweet! ;D To the best of my ability considering I currently have a cataract, I do believe I got the pieces in the right positions and at the right angles, etc. :thumbsup: Pics to come tomorrow night.
I never trust putty in a seam unless it feels right. Surprising what we do by feel and never notice, until the eyes start to go.
Ok, here's the preliminary pics of when I added the SPY-1 radars last night. I still have more work to do this weekend on adding more hull panels and such. But I think the basic layout should hopefully work. Sorry about any blurriness in the pictures.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv216%2Ficyhusky%2Flcs2%2520phase%25202%2FDSC03922.jpg&hash=da1b2ef566a97c94994d5ec8fdd042ff615b55db) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/icyhusky/media/lcs2%20phase%202/DSC03922.jpg.html)
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This is looking really good but I have a slightly off topic question.
How long is this kit?
Reason is I have been thinking of trying to modify one into a 72nd scale yacht but need to know if it is big enough or too big (in which case I would look at the 700 scale kit).
Any help greatly appreciated.
very nice looking kit........I'm seeing so much I've never seen before! I've done it on a few larger builds....but looking at all those windows......a fellow could go nutz with a needle file and some testor's window maker :)
totally agree with your signature, by the way ;)
Quote from: philp on August 01, 2013, 09:12:01 PM
This is looking really good but I have a slightly off topic question.
How long is this kit?
Reason is I have been thinking of trying to modify one into a 72nd scale yacht but need to know if it is big enough or too big (in which case I would look at the 700 scale kit).
Any help greatly appreciated.
Phil, it'll be around 14 inches/360mm in 1/350, or 7 inches/180mm in 1/700. In 1/72 scale, the 1/700 kit would be a 40ft yacht, in 1/350 it's be an 80 footer. Depends what you're after, the smaller one would do for a pleasure yacht, the bigger one for a big luxury yacht (and still be quite a bit smaller than Revells Sunseeker Predator).
Quote from: Popeye on August 01, 2013, 09:32:03 PM
....but looking at all those windows......a fellow could go nutz with a needle file and some testor's window maker :)
If you look carefully at the very first and second pics from my post further above, the only windows the LCS has are the front bridge windows.
Sample pic with blue bridge windows:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/lcs/lcs2-350-hsk/lcs2-05.jpg
All the other small squares or rectangles are where photoetch pieces go for vents and such. The kit I have has so much photoetch in it that I may not add it at all. My eyesight is too bad right now, especially since I still have a cataract to get taken care of. I may just "cheat" and paint all the tiny squares black or some other color to "represent" all those vents and such. If I do add any photoetch, it may just be the safety netting around the flight deck, and a few hand rails.
Quote from: Mossie on August 02, 2013, 02:56:58 AM
Quote from: philp on August 01, 2013, 09:12:01 PM
This is looking really good but I have a slightly off topic question.
How long is this kit?
Reason is I have been thinking of trying to modify one into a 72nd scale yacht but need to know if it is big enough or too big (in which case I would look at the 700 scale kit).
Any help greatly appreciated.
Phil, it'll be around 14 inches/360mm in 1/350, or 7 inches/180mm in 1/700. In 1/72 scale, the 1/700 kit would be a 40ft yacht, in 1/350 it's be an 80 footer. Depends what you're after, the smaller one would do for a pleasure yacht, the bigger one for a big luxury yacht (and still be quite a bit smaller than Revells Sunseeker Predator).
Perfect, thanks.
Guess I need to tweek my ideas based on the 350th version. Hmm, Jacuzzi or helipad on the back deck...
This is a rough concept of the configuration I'm going for. The main radar mast will be more stealthy. I took the mast from a 1/400 scale La Fayette frigate kit. I want to make small sponsons for the torpedo launchers so that they are not sitting at the edge of the flight deck and in the way of copter operations.
I am still unsure of where to place 2 quad Harpoon launchers. Anybody got any ideas? The last pics show possible gun configurations with 3 different gun types: Gun from the kit, Scratchbuilt gun I made, and a normal modern 5" gun. I'm not sure which one I want to use.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv216%2Ficyhusky%2Flcs2%2520phase%25202%2FDSC03933.jpg&hash=ee5b56e9f923f1b2ab1acc1835e8faed918829c2) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/icyhusky/media/lcs2%20phase%202/DSC03933.jpg.html)
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Rather than obstructing Copter flt ops, how about putting the launch tubes on rails to allow them to 'drop' over the hull/side to fire torpedoes?
A bit like the gun mount on the Space Marine battle bus in Aliens?
I like the scratch built gun :thumbsup:
Until I saw the helicopter sticking its nose out of the door I didn't realise the size of this thing in "real scale"
Where the heck do I put the Harpoon launchers? I was thinking on top of the superstructure between the SPY-1 radars and the Phalanx's as shown in the following pics. Instead of using the non-stealthy Harpoon launchers so common in today's Navy, I found a small angular black plastic spare part to use. Unfortuneately, I only have one piece, so I'll have to scratchbuild another one. :( What do you think? Could it work? Or should I just forget about it and not do it?
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv216%2Ficyhusky%2Flcs2%2520phase%25202%2FDSC03939.jpg&hash=9f7cca1a401d24dc58b7629d3369d544a075370e) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/icyhusky/media/lcs2%20phase%202/DSC03939.jpg.html)
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I can see a problem with using that location as above the hanger, consequently a lot of equipment associated with operating and loading the launchers will be intruding into the top of the hanger space leaving less space or spares for the helicopters that you are carrying, alternatively you could reduce the number of air assents that you are using and have the launchers offset to one side.
Other locations could easily hide the associated components below deck and could easily be accounted for as a "rearrangement" of the internal space about your ship. It is a whif and it is your ship, you will do what you want to do, I personally think that a whif works best if there is a large degree of technical thought associated with any "conversion" as it then becomes more of a variation and much more readily acceptable to those who think that if it is not real it should not be modelled.
Gondor
You definately want to get rid of the non stealthy traditional launchers. I was thinking of a hatch in the side that would open to launch then close again. You could build one or two hatches open to show what its for.
Quote from: kerick on August 03, 2013, 04:36:28 PM
You definately want to get rid of the non stealthy traditional launchers. I was thinking of a hatch in the side that would open to launch then close again. You could build one or two hatches open to show what its for.
I thought about that, but then changed my mind and decided against it. The "official" ;) LCS USS Independence Multi-mission Combatant shows VLS on either side of a not-as-wide helo hangar.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWGFj3.jpg&hash=fa90c26051e38e7e96a10210e9b1dd760be9d533)
I could do something similar to my model with a small VLS system for Harpoons. I'm playing around with a few ideas right now and won't have pics till later sometime. I don't want to put too much against the sides of the hull as I don't want the sides to be too crowded with stuff. Other things I still have to decide on and/or make are:
* New windowed helicopter landing control room/station.
* New stealthy ECM system.
* New stealthy Nulka decoy launchers.
* Rebuild new exhaust/smokestack area.
As far as the Harpoon launchers go, I've been doing a bit more thinking on that. I won't use the current ones as shown in pics further above as they are not stealthy launchers and they are angled too high. I thought about using some Gundam robot missile launcher parts as shown in the pic below. I could either have two (One on either side near the CIWS's) black colored launcher pieces (Each holds 9 missiles).......or, I could have two (One on either side of the hull) blue colored missile launcher pieces (Each piece holds 4 missiles). But after doing some heavy thinking, I didn't like the looks of either colored launchers nor the locations they were in.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv216%2Ficyhusky%2Flcs2%2520phase%25202%2FDSC03943.jpg&hash=13678cf5eeb032e1c918e3f618557850b259290b) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/icyhusky/media/lcs2%20phase%202/DSC03943.jpg.html)
So then, I started to rob the Exocet missile launchers from a 1/400 La Fayette frigate kit I had and assembled those to see what they'd be like. I actually kinda like the look of them, plus they're not as highly angled as American Harpoon launchers are. If needed, I can add a bit more plastic sheet and other bits to them to make the launchers look a little more stealthy.
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Another thing I scratchbuilt were some torpedo launcher platforms on either side of the ship. I'm not too crazy about these, but it's the best I could do for the moment. I just didn't feel like cutting holes in the sides of the hull and having the launchers "hidden" inside the ship. :P I'm going to make the torpedo launchers themselves a bit more stealthy as well in forthcoming days. ;)
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Looking soooo good. :wub:
Quote from: tc2324 on August 09, 2013, 07:26:22 AM
Looking soooo good. :wub:
Thanks. :) I'll have some more new pics ready in the next few days. For now, I have a question: I'm tired of seeing the same old, same old red hull bottoms on navy ships. I had the thought of painting the lower hull of my LCS in blue as shown in the example pic below. It's an odd color for sure, but I like it! ;D When I build something, I dare to be different! ;D ;D ;D I generally only paint with acrylics, either Testor or Tamiya. Is there a close match from either of those brands?
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Were you planning to leave the radar panels like that? There's a lot of plumbing and electronics behind the face of the SPY-1, so you'll need to enclose the space some more.
Quote from: Hobbes on August 09, 2013, 08:44:54 AM
Were you planning to leave the radar panels like that? There's a lot of plumbing and electronics behind the face of the SPY-1, so you'll need to enclose the space some more.
If you mean all the pics from Page 2 of this thread, I have already finished adding more hull panels to the SPY-1 radar structure. I just have a bit of puttying and sanding to do, then that structure will be done. Pics to come later sometime.
Here's some more new pics of the progress I've made so far. Some parts like the radar mast, dish radars, Phalanx's, Torpedo tubes, and a few other pieces are not glued on, but just sitting on the model for reference purposes. The yellow parts on top are what I'm using for the exhaust area. Those pieces came from a Gundam robot kit as it was all I had to work with. The triple tube torpedo launchers are now more "stealthy" and were made with styrene hexagon strip. The gold colored pieces near the torpedo launchers are "barracades/blast deflectors"....for lack of a better term.....if the torp launchers get damaged or explode, then the deflector helps prevent damage from spilling onto the helo pad, and vice versa if something happens on the helo pad, then the deflectors help prevent damage to the torp launchers. On the sides of the hull are black scratchbuilt "stealthy" parts for the SRBOC and Nulka decoy launchers. Though the longer larger ones I may take off as I don't like the appearence of them. The smaller ones I'll keep on.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv216%2Ficyhusky%2Flcs2%2520phase%25202%2FDSC04012.jpg&hash=2a37d74f47a409cab63bff74f58bc8260d8b9de2) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/icyhusky/media/lcs2%20phase%202/DSC04012.jpg.html)
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Watching you put this together is making me more aware of the real ships and what they are/have :thumbsup:
Okay, I admit, I like the Exocet launchers as a replacement for the Harpoons. Although I was inclined to go with a VLS system and liked the blue launcher, just move them forward a bit and add a hatch cover. As to the torpedos, if you're going to keep the bulges, why not put the torpedo's in the bulges?
Spent some time trying to paint the lower hull of my LCS. I painted it blue similar to what the USS Port Royal had. I think the color is a close match. The blue will look different on the Port Royal due to various lighting conditions. I used Testor Model Master Acryl French Blue.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv216%2Ficyhusky%2Flcs2%2520phase%25202%2F00334023.jpg&hash=14b6ec7254bbb5706432ce856c85d17e1a887001) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/icyhusky/media/lcs2%20phase%202/00334023.jpg.html)
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Looks good, can't wait to see her finished
Sorry I'm a bit late to the party with this one, but for what it's worth, I think your original torpedo positions on the front corners of the flight deck were okay. If you think about the movements of a helo on a flight deck, that's an area they just cannot go through: they can't get closer to the hangar than one rotor radius with rotors extended and the only time they do get closer is when they're going in through the doors in the middle, so the front corners of the flight deck are pretty much available for anything low enough that rotors will pass over it.
Some RN triple TTs had armoured plates added outboard of them following the Falklands War. You could combine this with stealth bu putting them in a triangular section box that sat flush to the deck and elevated slightly just prior to rotation. Another option would be to use twin tubes to lower the units' profile.
Of course, the stealthiest option would be internal launchers with just a hatch in the hull or superstructure side, much like the "magazine torpedo system" on the Type-23 frigates or the "torpedo catapults" on various French ships.
I like the blue bottom; something different yet based in fact. :thumbsup:
Nice work ! I like the blue too, and any boat with helicopters gets my vote !
:cheers:
No new progress or pics will be available till late Oct. or maybe Nov. I'm going in for cataract eye surgery this week, so any new progress will be late.
Best wishes ! Look forward to your full recovery and the finish line of this puppy !
:cheers:
Good luck for the op.
Sorry there's been no new progress on this. The last few months have been busy with work, holidays, recovering from cataract eye surgery, and..........I've also kinda lost interest in this project. :( I still do plan to finish it, but.........it might be awhile.
Don't worry, between myself and Old Wombat we won't let you forget about it..... :thumbsup: