What if

GROUP BUILDS => The Prototypes G.B. => Topic started by: kitbasher on July 06, 2020, 02:08:31 PM

Title: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 06, 2020, 02:08:31 PM
Mentioned in a blog update, a mashup with a long and convoluted evolution.

An age ago I stared to convert an IPMS Nederland boxing of the old KP Spitfire IX into a Spiteful - fuselage modified, nose cut off to take a Griffon, wings to come from a FROG (or NOVO) Attacker, tail end from a Pegasus Spit 24.

Anyway none of that came to pass, grand plans to do all sorts but none cane to plan but along the way discovered that the front end of a Harrier fitted nicely, and a couple of jets could be fitted.

Anyhow, bag of scrap parts languished in a shoe box fir an age.  The advent of the P.1154(ish) threw up some ideas and more parts.  Add this GB and the FrankenCOIN idea was born.

Progress pics to follow, but so far: cockpit faired over with plastic card and filler applied; FROG Me262 engines attached to the fuselage; one Spiteful wing attached (ta Lee); basic tail boom attached; initial filler session.  Heller Bobcat front fuselage dry fits well.

So, having hummed and ahd about mockup v prototype at the mo I think the former.  Why?  The Bobcat cockpit is very simplistic, so I reckon representations of seats, etc, are enough for a full-size mockup displayed at a 1970s Farnborough air show.  May still revert to a prototype, time to decide.

Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 15, 2020, 07:41:10 AM
Progress up to and including the previous post (T4 front end and GR3 fin/rudder placed not glued into position):

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50116014702_69989695c8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jmzFa1) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50115786471_fbaeb6ff4f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jmzFa1) (https://flic.kr/p/2jmyviZ)
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 15, 2020, 09:17:00 AM
I'd have NEVR thought of combining a Spitfire with a Harrier!  :o

That's starting to look very possible Dave.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 15, 2020, 10:02:18 AM
Thanks Kit.

Second wing attached, some work on the cockpit.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: Gondor on July 15, 2020, 11:52:40 AM
I would have fitted the wings above the engines so that more could be hung under them but it looks good so far

Gondor
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: The Wooksta! on July 15, 2020, 12:50:22 PM
I thought the other thing was ugly but this is taking the cake, eating it and coming back for the after dinner mints and coffee.

Engines above the wings give them a bit more protection from groundfire.

I'd square off the wingtips so they look a bit more like Seahawk wings or add tip tanks to leave a extra pair of underwing hardpoints free for extra lethality.  Rework the nose with a laser designator for a higher coolness factor, which only goes up with underwing Paveways.

Finally, make sure it gets a good few coats of Halfords primer.  I don't think the resin was that good on the casting given the colour.  It should have outgassed by now, but a few Halfords coats should make sure.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 15, 2020, 02:13:48 PM
Thanks chaps.

Engines - also FOD protection.  In the so-called 'real world' the Su-25 and Il-42/Il-102 have overwing nacelles.  As for the stores, fair call but in my head this is something a bit punchier than a Strikemaster/A-37 but certainly not in the A-10 class.  Counter-insurgency not tank busting.

Tip tanks I'm mulling over already, a rummage through the spares box will be necessary.  Had just relocated the Harrier T4 nose this avo so that's the laser rangefinder sorted. 

Thanks also Lee for the primer tip.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: The Wooksta! on July 15, 2020, 04:42:57 PM
Frog Sea Venom wings could be handy for tip tanks, or the smaller ones from a Hunter.

Or go with wingtip mounted sidewinders.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: Weaver on July 16, 2020, 01:52:37 AM
I like it! Ugly is good... :wacko: :thumbsup:

One point: aren't the engines the wrong way around? The 262 engine pods are longer ahead of the wing than behind it, and, IIFC, the intake end of the pod is a little wider than the exhaust end.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: Dizzyfugu on July 16, 2020, 02:11:03 AM
Nice, even though this does not properly describe it.  :thumbsup:

Reminds me of a kitbashing I did many moons ago, also with Me 262 nacelles (replacing the originals):

(https://live.staticflickr.com/8435/7832943144_365797239b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/cWaT6S)
1:72 Mikoyan-Gurewich MiG-SPB (NATO Code 'Flintstone'); "08 Red", 201st Independent Shturmovaya Air Squadron, Shindand Airbase, Afghanistan, 1982 (Whif/Kit-bashing) (https://flic.kr/p/cWaT6S) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 16, 2020, 05:46:28 AM
I lied.  The Su-25's wing roots are above the engines, the Il-42/Il-102 not quite under the nacelles.

Yep the 262's nacelles are longer at the front, however.....

Wingtip 'winders maybe, but prefer tanks at the mo.

Nice pic, Dizzy!
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 17, 2020, 10:35:16 AM
Second wing needed reattaching, not quite in the right place.  Had contemplated Bobcat Harrier T4 tailplanes but on reflection they're best straight not swept.  So a pair of Matchbox P-51D tailplanes from the spares box will be used.

Donor kits currently stand at FROG Me262, Spiteful wings from The Wooksta!, KP Spitfire, Heller Bobcat Harrier, Airfix 1st gen Harrier GR3, Matchbox P-51D.  Further spares box rummaging to follow for undercarriage, pylons and stores!
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: The Wooksta! on July 17, 2020, 01:42:49 PM
If you've got an Eduard Spit, you should have two spare sets of u/c straight off.  And wheels.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 27, 2020, 09:03:38 AM
A bit more filling today.  Tomorrow I plan to do more work on the cockpit and some sanding down.

Hopefully by the end of the week the nose, tailplanes/fin can be fitted.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: jcf on July 29, 2020, 07:45:09 AM
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The engine location is reminiscent of the Clunk.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1000aircraftphotos.com%2FContributions%2FSoberalManny%2F7579L.jpg&hash=3e9e5a7d0adab7f470d87f8836a7fd98572b17c6)
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kerick on July 29, 2020, 08:16:59 AM
Move the engines out board a little more and add props for a Pucara look. Great kit bashing work!
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 29, 2020, 08:51:08 AM
Until I saw that pic I didn't realise quite how flat the underside of a Clunk was.  :o

And I walked underneath one many years ago too.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 29, 2020, 09:22:32 AM
Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on July 29, 2020, 07:45:09 AM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The engine location is reminiscent of the Clunk.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1000aircraftphotos.com%2FContributions%2FSoberalManny%2F7579L.jpg&hash=3e9e5a7d0adab7f470d87f8836a7fd98572b17c6)

I was thinking that only yesterday!

Love the CF-100.  If only the radome were a bit pointier.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: NARSES2 on July 30, 2020, 06:16:40 AM
I've never seen the wing tip like that before. I assume that's where they bolted the fuel tanks/rocket pods ? Just I've never seen that detail exposed.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 30, 2020, 08:57:49 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on July 30, 2020, 06:16:40 AM
I've never seen the wing tip like that before. I assume that's where they bolted the fuel tanks/rocket pods ? Just I've never seen that detail exposed.

Exactly that, Chris.

When you look at the Clunk then Kit's Gloster Lancer you'll see why I think the Lancer best suits Canadian markings.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 30, 2020, 09:37:39 AM
Quote from: kitbasher on July 30, 2020, 08:57:49 AM

When you look at the Clunk then Kit's Gloster Lancer you'll see why I think the Lancer best suits Canadian markings.


I'd have to take the tip tanks off................  ;)
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on July 30, 2020, 11:07:04 AM
No you won't, Kit.  CF-100's flew with wingtip pods.  The CF-101B Lancer (Avro Canada doing to Parliament what Grumman, Republic and others did to Congress with the Panther/Cougar and the F-84) could carry either wingtip tanks or pods.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on August 19, 2020, 10:19:20 AM
Up north and a chance to work on the FrankenCOIN.  Wingtip tanks made from Revell Hawk T1 drop tanks, replacement aileron made from plastic card, Scrap plastic fitted to the base of the fin (will be filled then shaped to blend the fin in with the fuselage) and the front fuselage attached to the rest.

Suddenly looking as though it could be done by the deadline.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on August 31, 2020, 07:59:17 AM
Work continues (canopy merely placed pending further PSR):

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50289924958_01f3c5c933_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jBX1BG)

(https://flic.kr/p/2jBX1BG)
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: Dizzyfugu on August 31, 2020, 08:19:57 AM
Nice! The tail surfaces look a bit small, though?
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 31, 2020, 08:29:22 AM
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on August 31, 2020, 08:19:57 AM

Nice! The tail surfaces look a bit small, though?


Hawker's thought the same thing when they first built the T3, and fitted a HUGE fin. But later shrunk it and shrunk it till it was just a tad larger than the single seater's.
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: buzzbomb on August 31, 2020, 04:07:58 PM
Well that is coming together nicely
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: jcf on September 12, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
 :thumbsup:
It could be an entry against the Canadair CL-41T in an RCAF COIN competion
that started 40+ years ago and is still ongoing with no decision being reached.
:wacko:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50334309708_7decceb20c_o.png)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50334309663_9eb5b21716_b.jpg)
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on September 12, 2020, 02:44:53 PM
Indeed it could!  Thanks for the pics, very interesting  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: DogfighterZen on September 27, 2020, 05:07:08 AM
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on August 31, 2020, 08:19:57 AM
Nice! The tail surfaces look a bit small, though?

I agree, the horizontal stabs look just a bit too small... But i like the rest, looking very good indeed. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FrankenCOIN - ‘Hawker Siddeley P.1183’
Post by: kitbasher on September 27, 2020, 07:32:31 AM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on September 27, 2020, 05:07:08 AM
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on August 31, 2020, 08:19:57 AM
Nice! The tail surfaces look a bit small, though?

I agree, the horizontal stabs look just a bit too small... But i like the rest, looking very good indeed. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

They're not small, they're just far away!