Another American aircraft not really reaching its full potential was the F-100 Super Sabre. While a decently stable and rugged attack platform, its unfortunate aerodynamics coupled with what has to be one of the worst mismatches between said aerodynamics and engine control features, meant that only three NATO members beyond the US took the aircraft on strength. Interestingly, in these air forces, and once settled in, it performed rather well and would doubtlessly have been a valuable asset, should the Russian hordes have rolled westwards.
In the late 1950's, the German Luftwaffe actually had plans to acquire Super Sabres, but for a number of reasons didn't. Considering their experience with the Starfighter they got instead, one can't help thinking that maybe, they should have at least split their order. And in particular when North American Rockwell offered to substitute the beastly J57 engine with the British Spey, the potential for a long lasting and very competent CAS platform was apparent.
Inspired by an absolutely wonderful whatif artwork by the truly talented >>Antonis Karidis<< (https://www.artstation.com/roen911), I decided to have a closer look at a possible sequence of events, where the Spey-engined Hun actually was adopted by the Luftwaffe. And, as we shall see, I think it would have worked out nicely.
But first the artwork. Just look at it! It is truly magnificent!
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/c54dad0e-7ec8-49f5-87d0-22f22c6c97da/depups6-00c869f3-48e8-4075-b8a1-394b2ef84373.jpg/v1/fill/w_1600,h_747,q_75,strp/f_100___black_tulip_by_roen911_depups6-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzQ3IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYzU0ZGFkMGUtN2VjOC00OWY1LTg3ZDAtMjJmMjJjNmM5N2RhXC9kZXB1cHM2LTAwYzg2OWYzLTQ4ZTgtNDA3NS1iOGExLTM5NGIyZWY4NDM3My5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTYwMCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.8_gqgEB8VHcxuQdILBRBN1xDJl61VNzi2wFCebYmmCQ)
And now - to the backstory - and the model.
The F-100 Super Sabre in NATO service
During the 1950's and 1960's, the aeronautical evolution was lightning quick, and while the European NATO countries only had received the F-84F Thunderstreak fighterbomber from 1955, it was soon clear that the Thunderstreaks were becoming obsolete, and that fast. In response, the Americans offered the F-100 Super Sabre as a replacement, but most NATO air forces saw the Super Sabre as too pedestrian in comparison to the Mach 2 capable fighters then under development. Only France and Denmark went with the Super Sabre, and eventually Turkey, eager to get their hands on anything they could, joined in. While certainly more powerful and faster than the Thunderstreak, the Super Sabre had its vices, in particular in relation to the crude engine/afterburner control system, and both France and in particular Denmark experienced a series of accidents and mishaps before the aircraft eventually settled in, then transforming into a rough, rugged and ready strike asset, easy to deploy and maintain. The F-100's of the French Arme'e de l'Air baptized the type in combat by flying strike missions from mainland France against targets in Algeria during the insurgency there in the late 1950's and while the combat experiences gained were generally quite favourable, the French soon became seriously fed up with the awful J57 engine installation. Confronted by loud complaints and Dassault offering to replace the Super Sabres with a Super Mystere derivative, North American Rockwell (NAR) responded by proposing to replace the temperamental and thirsty J57 turbojet with a British Rolls-Royce Spey turbofan engine. A prototype flew in 1964 and the modification turned out to totally transform the Super Sabre operations. The Spey wasn't just significantly easier and cheaper to maintain but also much more controllable and using only about a third of the fuel in comparison to the J57, still giving almost 20% increase in power. The resulting F-100S was an instant hit, and the AdA bit like a cobra, swiftly rebuilding all of their remaining F-100D and F's in workshops quickly set up by NAR on French soil. The Danes followed suit, and in 1967, all Super Sabres on the European continent had been rebuilt.
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The other NATO members instead had gone looking for sexier things, and after a now famous procedure, involving bribes, corrupt royals and beautiful women, decided on the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter. The Starfighter, however, was originally envisaged as a fairweather high altitude interceptor, and despite some serious structural reinforcing and addition of allweather radar and navigation systems, it was still a handful to fly, in particular close to the ground in the dark skies of Northern Europe. Entering service with the German Luftwaffe in 1961, losses quickly mounted, and so did criticism. In 1966, Luftwaffe relegated the Starfighter back to interception duties only while another solution was being sought for their fighterbomber wings.
This came to coincide with a sudden surplus of Super Sabres. The Americans hadn't rebuilt their Super Sabres, instead using them as they were in the Vietnam war where they early on became the primary tactical attack and CAS platform. However, as newer and more capable aircraft entered service, the F-100's were first relegated to duties south of the North Vietnamese border, but from 1967 increasingly rotated out of Vietnam, being offered up for sale or allocated to ANG units. Looking at the French Super Sabres and their high reliability figures, the Luftwaffe brass struck a deal, rather cheaply procuring 374 secondhand F-100 D/F's, but having them rebuilt to F-100S standard in the French factory. As deliveries commenced in 1968, they were accompanied in the workshops by the French Super Sabres which had entered a second round of upgrades, receiving the nav/attack system and associated Laser Ranging and Marked Target Seeker (LRMTS) system from the then brand new Sepecat Jaguar. This also meant that two of the four guns had to go in order to save some space and weight for the new systems, but to compensate somewhat, the opportunity was taken to go from the 20mm M39 guns to 30mm DEFA cannons.
Taking a quick decision, Luftwaffe went for the full monty, and thus, also the German Super Sabres received the DEFA cannons as well as the French nav/attack systems, delaying the in-service date by six months but receiving a very competent strike aircraft indeed. While still only just able to break the sound barrier at low level, it could do it fully laden and the war load it carried when doing so was twice as much as the F-104G could manage. Five fighterbomber wings (JagdbomberGeschwadern) reequipped, releasing the Starfighter to interceptor duties with three new fighter wings instead.
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The French finally took their Super Sabres abroad in the 70's, using them both in Mauretania and Tchad. For a number of years, Esc 4/11 Jura was even based in Djibouti by the Red Sea. Generally, they were well liked, being uncomplicated and easy to maintain and being able to put rather a heavy warload on precise targets when required to do so. When on assignment, they were generally camouflaged and from 1976, most carried the USAF three-tone green and tan scheme also at home. At the end of the decade, retirement was discussed but the decision was taken to rather modernize some systems in the wake of both the Iranian revolution and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. Accordingly, the Super Sabres got an entirely new inertial nav/attack system paired with the old LRTMS, adding proper allweather capability to the already good precision strike capacity. They also received the ability to hang Phimat chaff pods and Barracuda/Barax ECM pods on their outer weapon pylons.
To spread costs over more airframes, France invited both Germany and Denmark to bring their F-100's to the party, and both happily went along. While Germany continued to keep their Super Sabres identical to the French aircraft, differing only in using the homegrown Cerberus ECM pod and the Swedish SAAB BOZ chaff pod instead of the French alternatives, the Danes chose a slightly different solution, using a Danish Terma ECM systems in distinct pods fixed on the wing tips and a Ferranti LRMTS under the nose.
The Luftwaffe continued to operate their Super Sabres also after having introduced the Tornado bomber in service, albeit in reduced numbers. As the conflict in the former German colony of South West Africa took a significant turn for the worse in 1985, the European Communities, in an unprecedented move, into the foreign domain, took upon itself to secure the region against Soviet as well as South African aggression, pending a UN decision on independence for the former South African province. To obtain its targets, a task force consisting of German and British armed forces surprisingly landed I Walvis Bay from RoRo-ships, establishing a bridgehead into which reinforcements and supplies easily could be landed both by air and sea. While the Soviets protested violently and sought to increase their military efforts via Angola, the South Africans quickly resigned their claims, provided that any Soviet influence in Namibia was to be quelled permanently.
Initially, British Sea Harriers from HMS Ark Royal covered the air and also shot down an Angolan MiG-21 trying to attack, but within a few weeks, a German expeditionary wing consisting of a F-4F sqn and two sqns of Super Sabres had moved in, basing at J.G. Strijdom Airport east of Windhoek. The Super Sabres went on to fight a rather intense war in the north, and as two of their numbers were lost, a field modification was introduced, attaching a centerline pylon to carry the ECM pod under the belly, freeing one wing pylon for a self-defence Sidewinder air-to-air missile. As the fins of the Cerberus pod would have interfered with the landing gear covers, the installation looked a bit quirky putting the pod well to the rear, but it worked out really well and the modification was subsequently rolled out across the remaining fleet. In 1989, the UN finally could agree on the Namibian issue, and the former EC operation was transformed into a United nations task force, the United Nations Transition Assistance Group (UNTAG), consisting of several countries but headed by Austrian and Indian commanders. The majority of the European forces accordingly deployed out of the country, leaving a single F-100 sqn behind for another year and a half, finally returning to Germany in late 1990.
At this time, the Super Sabres were getting rather long in the tooth, and the collapse of the Soviet empire was initially thought to validate their withdrawal from active service, but as the initial Soviet withdrawal from Europe soon turned into a revanchist try to reconsolidate, the F-100 force was kept in service all up to 1999 when they finally bowed out.
In Denmark, the F-16 was planned to replace the F-100, but due to delivery delays, in 1989, one RDAF sqn was still operating the Super Sabre. Reacting on the turmoil in eastern Europe, this sqn was kept in service together with the German Super Sabres, finally winding down it's operations in late 1998.
The French, however, ceased European operations with the Super Sabre in the early 1980's, but keeping a sqn based in Djibouti for another ten years, using them throughout their former colonies. They left service in 1991, being replaced by Mirages and Jaguars on a rotational basis.
Before someone points it out, I have to admit that I, by completing this model in the way I did, am guilty of one of the worst sins possible in relation to modelling postwar German military hardware. Thomas would likely spot it instantly, but let's see if someone else does.
In my defence, disregarding politics, history etc, just looking at appearance, I think it does look good as it is.
Quote from: Pellson on December 14, 2022, 09:57:25 AMBefore someone points it out, I have to admit that I, by completing this model in the way I did, am guilty of one of the worst sins possible in relation to modelling postwar German military hardware. Thomas would likely spot it instantly, but let's see if someone else does.
In my defence, disregarding politics, history etc, just looking at appearance, I think it does look good as it is.
All i can see is a beautiful model! :thumbsup:
That's a damn nice build and the only thing which sticks out to me is its nick name..the Hun being flown by the Hun ...as the Germans were once called..someone would have mentioned that ill bet..wee bit of irony there :lol:
Excellent :thumbsup:
Another cracking good job! Always loved the Hun since I had a toy one over 60 years ago, and it must have been a 'What if?' because it fired a spring-loaded missile out of the intake! ;D
Looks good in those greens. Always had a soft spot for the -100. The guy who ran the little airport where I learned to fly in the 80s did a few tours in them, including one in Vietnam. He certainly had some interesting stories.
Yet another very nice addition to the collection :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
A nice Hun! Like the F-84, it looks odd but very good in Norm '83. :wub:
And I do not see any "problem" with its? Should I? :unsure: The only thing worth mentioning is IMHO the old nozzle, if this is supposed to be a Spey-powered variant? It should probably be bigger and simpler in shape?
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on December 15, 2022, 12:42:46 AMA nice Hun! Like the F-84, it looks odd but very good in Norm '83. :wub:
And I do not see any "problem" with its? Should I? :unsure: The only thing worth mentioning is IMHO the old nozzle, if this is supposed to be a Spey-powered variant? It should probably be bigger and simpler in shape?
Thanks, Thomas.
The nozzle - it could have been simpler. The kit is what it is, though, and the Spey cans from a F-4K/M won't easily fit, so.. Also, the irl sketches and manufacturer models of the F-100S doesn't give that many clues towards any bigger changes. It looks and sounds as a relatively straightforward drop-in replacement.
Re my blasphemy - you'll probably see it on one or more of the MiG's coming up soon. If not, I'll tell. you. In a DM. ;)
Surely one of the worst sins possible in relation to modelling postwar German military hardware would be to put a swastika on it.
Whatever. Nice build mate.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: zenrat on December 15, 2022, 01:56:04 AMSurely one of the worst sins possible in relation to modelling postwar German military hardware would be to put a swastika on it.
Leaving the entire discussion of historical correctness aside - You're pretty close now! :thumbsup:
My only thought is the rear fuselage needs to be scorched. Paint did not last long back there....unless in the back story the Spey runs cooler..... :thumbsup:
I'm thinking it's the code letters, which seem to be WW2 style rather than post-war.
Still, a loverly build*! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
[*: Although, I'm surprised you didn't go the full Antonis Karidis scheme - it looks exceptionally good.]
Quote from: sandiego89 on December 15, 2022, 03:48:03 AMMy only thought is the rear fuselage needs to be scorched. Paint did not last long back there....unless in the back story the Spey runs cooler..... :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: Old Wombat on December 15, 2022, 05:34:09 AMI'm thinking it's the code letters, which seem to be WW2 style rather than post-war.
[*: Although, I'm surprised you didn't go the full Antonis Karidis scheme - it looks exceptionally good.]
Nope, codes are stolen and rearranged from a Starfighter, so they're not it, and for you missing the scorched rear, that's something I would have assumed the Spey installation to have handled smarter than the original mashup. So painting the entire fuselage was intentional. :wacko:
Re the Norm 72 scheme of Mr Karidis - yeah, it is nice, but trhe tulip scheme is an interceptor scheme, and has always been. It was Erich Hartmanns trademark already in Bf109's, and he brought it with him to first the Sabres, and then at least the Phantoms of JG71. I would actually have gurssed that you could find a photo of a "tuliped" Starfighter too, but as I haven't seen any, I'm not sure.
Anyway - the Hun was never a good fighter but rather a fighterbomber, so while handsome, no. It's too much interceptor for me.
Which, considering the blasphemy I've been talking about might be a bit inconsistent, so I'll let you in on what I have done. See the unit crest on the fin? As pretty (and German) as it is, it would NEVER have appeared on a postwar German fighter.
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Anyone recognising it, and can tell me why?
Had to Google but it's I/JG54, which spent most of its operational existence on the Eastern Front.
A very smart build, the F-100 looks good in any scheme. Never heard of the F-100S until this thread, would very much like to learn more about the proposed real world development.
Quote from: Old Wombat on December 15, 2022, 05:34:09 AMI'm thinking it's the code letters, which seem to be WW2 style rather than post-war.
No, the font/style is fine. Even the code numbers are in a good range, "19" has never been assigned to a type in Luftwaffe service, AFAIK, Starfighters had "20" upwards. Smaller numbers were usually assigned to passenger transport aircraft, incl. VIP transports.
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on December 16, 2022, 01:41:59 AMQuote from: Old Wombat on December 15, 2022, 05:34:09 AMI'm thinking it's the code letters, which seem to be WW2 style rather than post-war.
No, the font/style is fine. Even the code numbers are in a good range, "19" has never been assigned to a type in Luftwaffe service, AFAIK, Starfighters had "20" upwards. Smaller numbers were usually assigned to passenger transport aircraft, incl. VIP transports.
Thanks, Thomas. I tried to find a nice serial within the limited scope of the numbers I stole from that Starfighter sheet. I believe the original Starfighter code was 21+65.. :). :wub:
Quote from: kitbasher on December 16, 2022, 12:11:57 AMHad to Google but it's I/JG54, which spent most of its operational existence on the Eastern Front.
Correct, and it is the wartime connection is the problem.
It is an absolute taboo within the modern Bundeswehr to have any links whatsoever that in any possible way can be interpreted or seen as keeping traditions or similar of possible nazi-influenced units, names, persons or places. Considering that the wartime Germany was a one-party nazi dictatorship, and that said regime more or less rebuilt the entire German military organisation from nil, there aren't many unit names, affilations or symbols left. The above mentioned "tulip" decoration is an interesting exception as it, during WW2, was very closely affiliated to Erich Hartmann personally, and he was very much an airman and a soldier, and from what I can read, actively sought to distance himself from any political decisions or processes, firmly sticking to his flying unit and the men and machines therein. Apparently he did this rather successfully. Hence, the "tulip" decoration was deemed acceptable.
Another example of an acceptable tradition name is "Richthofen", used by JG 71, and derived from the WW1 ace and nobleman Manfred von Richthofen. His name is acceptable since he died before the Nazi period. It should be said that the wartime JG 2 also was called "Richthofen, so there could, theoretically have been a nazi connection anyway. The names "Immelmann" and Boelcke" are other examples of WW1 aces being honoured also in todays Bundeswehr, "Immelmann" being used in WW2 as well.
An interesting example going in the other direction is the Name "Molders". As Wikipedia puts it:
32 years after the crash and death of the German World War II fighter ace Werner Mölders, JG 74 received the honorary name of "JG 74 Mölders" on 22 November 1973. However, the German parliament decided in 1998 that it is not proper to name organizations after people who were active in the Legion Condor. The German Military History Institute researched Mölders conduct and concluded that he concurred in his actions with the Nazi government, and never opposed any actions taken by the Nazis. Therefore, the name "Mölders" was dropped by JG 74 on 11 June 2005.Consider this. Noone says that Molders was an active nazi. But – he participated actively and enthusiastically on the fascist side in the Spanish Civil war, and he DIDN'T ACTIVELY OPPOSE the nazis (which, in consequence, Hartmann must have done). But it is muddled.
The result of this is in any case that any symbol, name or similar that can't be proven being entirely free of any connection to the nazi regime is an absolute no-go for the Bundeswehr. While this is perfectly understandable, and - actually – also probably a sound sanitary rule, it does, from a perspective of graphics, rule out almost any known symbols and emblems in any way used by any military unit before 1946. And many, many of them are way older than the nazi epoque, affiliated to families and/or geography, not necessarily being 100% nazi, but obviously, as Germany was what it was during these years, neither 100% nazi free. Many others are rather generic in their nature, and again, while some men serving under these symbols definitely were nazi during the 1933 - 1945 period, equally definitely, many were not.
Given the above, and having mulled on this for quite some time, and also considering the fact that the unit emblems in my perspective add so much to the general appearance of any fighter, I took the decision to dive in nevertheless. One big reason is that I accidentally have a few sets of old WW2 Luftwaffe unit emblems on a decal sheet, so there were some to chose from. And – they are pretty! While I will try to avoid any symbols directly connected to the nazi ideology or similarly tarnished reputation, I will be looking at using more of what I have. You will see a few more on the MiG's f.i
I understand that this is, or at least can be, quite controversial, especially from a German perspective, and I offer my unconditional apologies if I am causing anyone any harm whatsoever, but I hope you can forgive me and try to see this as within an artistic license and not in any way intended to actually connect backwards in a political sense.
Well, when cou take into account that JG 71's commodore was actually a Nazi hero fighter pilot (who even introduced his personal "tulip" decoration to operational aircraft!), the German military's attitude towards history is a bit ambiguous, pragmatic, and sometimes even hypocritical. Many army barracks and buildings stiil date back to WWII times, and there are even contemporary decorations around (sans swastika, though). No wonder that many Nazis are still attracted to the Bundeswehr, and there's an undelying problem with political attitudes and toxic fraternism. Hard to tell how severe it really is, but I am afraid that it's bigger than one might think. However, this is whifworld, and I do not see a big problem with traditional unit markings. As somebody already mentioned, as long as there's no glorification of the past and some weird ideas about world order and such things, a lot of artistic freedom is acceptable. :mellow:
His name was Erich Alfred Hartmann. April 19 1922 to September 20 1993
So - even here, we might see another entrant in a bit. A Danish F-100S. I need to decide on armament, and I need to source more roundels. Always more roundels..
Bullpups are always a good choice for the Hun!
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on January 24, 2023, 11:55:40 PMBullpups are always a good choice for the Hun!
..in particular as the Hasegawa kit comes with them.. 😉
I dunno. We'll see.