What if

Picture Post => Current and Finished Projects => Armour => Topic started by: PR19_Kit on February 26, 2023, 08:57:45 AM

Title: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 26, 2023, 08:57:45 AM
At my model railway club I'm involved with the small (5-6 of us...) N gauge group building a pre-WWII layout of an imaginary town and its station in the West Midlands of the UK. The layout is dated very precisely on September 2nd 1939, the day before WWII started, and we have various little vignettes to show this. There's a Hurricane on a Queen Mary trailer trying to turn into Station Rd and causing a traffic jam as it's so long, with two escorting RAF motorbike cops arguing with two civvie cops as to who has the tight of way etc.  ;D

The town is modelled with a large market place, full of market stalls etc. but we also want to have an Army recruiting crew there, with a couple of small marquees and a 25 Pounder gun and its crew showing the public just how strong and ready the Army are. As the only person in the group (or even the whole club!) who has experience of a 25 Pounder, I got the job of building the gun and its crew.

It's a resin kit made by a firm of whom I know nothing, not even their name, and it's not too bad, just lots of VERY small parts that need assembling. For some reason it comes with THREE limbers, which is handsy as the gun only has one wheel, so one of the limbers will be sawn and filed down to provide the other one. The gun has no traversing platform either, so that'll need to be scratched, as no self-respecting 25 pounder would appear without one, they carried them underneath the trail normally.

As it's 1939 the Quad tractor should be a Mk 1, which will need a few changes to the windows as the model is a Mk II, but that's nothing that some styrene strip and  bit of PSR won't put right. There's only four gun crew members though, and there should be six, but as it's just a demo crew, four will have to do.

Anyway, here's the components, and note how small they are are on the cutting mat.  :o

25 Pdr-a.jpg
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: McColm on February 26, 2023, 09:06:38 AM
So if you are used to working in 1/144 scale and have all the necessary tools plus equipment to help you magnify the parts under construction the words fiddly and where's that part go to? Would seem appropriate. Good luck with your build.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Gondor on February 26, 2023, 09:13:34 AM
Kit's rule Number Two applies, the other two blokes are off drumming up support in the neared pub!

Gondor
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 26, 2023, 09:57:26 AM
Quote from: Gondor on February 26, 2023, 09:13:34 AMKit's rule Number Two applies, the other two blokes are off drumming up support in the neared pub!


 ;)  ;D

There's two pubs sited around the Market Square too, so you're probably right.

It seems that the 25 Pounder could be operated by a four man crew too, it was called a 'reduced detachment' apparently.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 26, 2023, 10:03:21 AM
To put it in context, here's the Market Square with just a small set of the stalls in place.

Most of the buildings etc. have been scratchbuilt, NOT by me I might add!

Market Square-800.jpg
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: perttime on February 26, 2023, 10:35:08 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 26, 2023, 09:57:26 AMIt seems that the 25 Pounder could be operated by a four man crew too, it was called a 'reduced detachment' apparently.
According to wikipedia:
"The gun detachment comprised the following: No 1 – detachment commander (a sergeant) No 2 – operated the breech and rammed the shell No 3 – layer No 4 – loader No 5 – ammunition No 6 – ammunition, normally the "coverer" – second in command and responsible for ammunition preparation and operating the fuze indicator

The official "reduced detachment" was four men.
"

I presume the "reduced detachment" would drop the ammunition guys, reducing the ability to keep shooting for very long.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Wardukw on February 26, 2023, 11:14:33 AM
Two words for ya Kit...bugger that  ;D
That's a lot of clean up there and many a razor-sharp blade is gonna be needed.
Am I interested in this?..you bet ya  ;D  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 26, 2023, 03:19:14 PM
Making progress on this, but boy, are those parts ever SMALL!  :banghead:

Having to use gel superglue also increases the chance of them becoming glued to the cutting mat, the tweezers and ME as well.

The gun's assembled, with one wheel stolen from a spare limber and filed to size, and I added a trail bar to it as well. The sight on the LH side of the gun is SO mall but it sort of looks the part. The bad part is that the trail is twisted, and I'm thinking of giving it a bit of the hot water treatment, but it'll be some distance from the viewing public and it may not be worth the bother.

I've blanked off the LH window of the Quad and PSR'd it, but it'll need some more in the morning I'm sure.

25 Pdr-b.jpg

Here's the build so far.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Wardukw on February 26, 2023, 03:59:35 PM
 ;D ..nice stiff Kit...small to the point of the carpet monster taking the entire model  :lol:
I myself wouldn't bother about the trail mate...it's that scale where it's small enough not to be seen at any real distance  :thumbsup:
Now to the electron microscope to be able to paint it  :o
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: rickshaw on February 26, 2023, 06:06:10 PM
The traversing platform can be made from a 1/72/76 wagon wheel in all likelihood. I too wouldn't bother about the trail.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: NARSES2 on February 27, 2023, 05:55:29 AM
That's looking good Kit, as is the layout  :thumbsup:

Sept 2nd was a Saturday so it could be a busy old market or even the locals going off to the football  ;)
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Old Wombat on February 27, 2023, 06:30:13 AM
Personally, I refuse to work on something that insanely small! :o
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 27, 2023, 12:05:30 PM
Quote from: rickshaw on February 26, 2023, 06:06:10 PMThe traversing platform can be made from a 1/72/76 wagon wheel in all likelihood. I too wouldn't bother about the trail.   :thumbsup:


I decided to do it properly, with the aid of my Olfa Circle Cutter, which I've yet to use so far, and I've had it for maybe 5-10 years!

So here you have the component parts of the traversing platform..

25 Pdr-c.jpg

And here they are all assembled.

25 Pdr-d.jpg 

It should have twice as many cross braces as I've done, but when I tried it they were far too fragile and the glue dissolved them rather than attached them.  :banghead:

The upper level circle should be much thinner too, but the Olfa only goes down so far, and I had to cut out the inner part of it with a scalpel, NOT an easy task.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 27, 2023, 03:20:26 PM
That's got all the construction done.  ;D

The gun fits nicely on the traversing platform, and I added the two struts that run from the centre of the platform to the gun trail as well. They're pretty darn difficult to see but I know they're there.  ;D

The Quad's now fully converted to a Mk 1, with it's LH door window blanked off and PSR'd and the two tiny triangular windows added each side.

So now it's painting time, and that means painting the gun crew too, NOT a step I'm looking forward to.  :banghead:

25 Pdr-e.jpg
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: buzzbomb on February 27, 2023, 04:19:12 PM
Lick of paint and good go :thumbsup:
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Wardukw on February 27, 2023, 04:34:42 PM
TFS Kit.. pretty sure ya know what tfs is  ;D
I am looking forward to this because I don't have to paint them but bloody nice job on the platform mate...she's a wee ting little thing  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Rick Lowe on February 27, 2023, 08:33:46 PM
:thumbsup:

I like the 'Tight of way' part - was that intentional?  ;D
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: NARSES2 on February 28, 2023, 06:09:35 AM
Neat work on the platform Kit  :thumbsup:

Figures in that scale ? All over khaki except for black boots and flesh faces should do. Not sure if they'd be wearing side hats or berets ? Probably  the former in 39, but if the later a spot of black there as well.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 28, 2023, 06:21:56 AM
Quote from: Rick Lowe on February 27, 2023, 08:33:46 PMI like the 'Tight of way' part - was that intentional?  ;D


Hehehehe, no, and I hadn't noticed it until you mentioned it.  ;D

But here's the scenario, taken some months ago before we'd finished off a lot of the details, and you can see it IS tight! In passing, the shop right behind the QM is an exact scale model of a shop at the bottom of my road. We measured it and took oodles of pics and it came out looking pretty good.

NOT my work I might add, that's way beyond my skill level.

QM Scenario.jpg


Here's the Hurricane on the Queen Mary in close up.

QM-a.jpg
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Rick Lowe on February 28, 2023, 08:21:21 PM
:thumbsup:

Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 28, 2023, 06:21:56 AM
Quote from: Rick Lowe on February 27, 2023, 08:33:46 PMI like the 'Tight of way' part - was that intentional?  ;D


Hehehehe, no, and I hadn't noticed it until you mentioned it.  ;D


Found art/humour is where you find it...  ;D
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 02, 2023, 10:43:54 AM
The gun, limber and Quad are done now. They're deliberately looking smart as a) they'd be almost brand new in 1939 and b) they're part of an Army Recruitment unit.

25 Pdr-f.jpg

And just to prove I'm totally round the bend, here's a WVS tea van, converted from an ex-RN truck, complete with Edna inside, tea cups and cheese sarnies on her counter. And there's two RAF motorbike cops, the ones escorting the Queen Mary, waiting for some refreshment, all in the same 1/148 scale.

I've got to add the roof to the WVS van yet, but doing Edna and the teacups was impossible with it on.

I think I'm going to do that 1/24 Airfix Spitfire Mk IXc next...................

WVS Truck.jpg
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Rheged on March 02, 2023, 11:04:30 AM
Edna and her tea van are NOT evidence of being totally round the bend, they are merely examples of independence of thought.  They are also superb.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Old Wombat on March 02, 2023, 04:04:15 PM
Nah, I'm going with Kit on this one: Completely bonkers! ;D

And 1/24 Spit sounds like a sane move, although I believe they're quite detailed & finicky in places. ;) 
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Wardukw on March 02, 2023, 05:49:18 PM
Quote from: Old Wombat on March 02, 2023, 04:04:15 PMNah, I'm going with Kit on this one: Completely bonkers! ;D

And 1/24 Spit sounds like a sane move, although I believe they're quite detailed & finicky in places. ;) 
Depends on the date it was made and of course if it's an Airfix kit.. if its like mine..old as hell..detail is not much..if it's the new one..then holy crap pickles applies  :o
For Kits sanity I hope its the old one ..which reminds me ive got to make a order to Aus for some parts for mine..like a 5 bladed prop for one  ;D
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: zenrat on March 03, 2023, 03:47:11 AM
What cheese is in the sangers?
And is there pickle?
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 03, 2023, 05:32:04 AM
Quote from: Wardukw-NZ on March 02, 2023, 05:49:18 PMDepends on the date it was made and of course if it's an Airfix kit.. if its like mine..old as hell..detail is not much..if it's the new one..then holy crap pickles applies  :o
For Kits sanity I hope its the old one ..which reminds me ive got to make a order to Aus for some parts for mine..like a 5 bladed prop for one  ;D


No, it's the brand new one my daughters got me for my birthday.

At least it's state of the art when it comes to the technology, so it should fit together alright. My plan has always been to convert it to a PR XI before some accessory company produces an upgrade to do exactly that.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: NARSES2 on March 03, 2023, 05:50:29 AM
Quote from: zenrat on March 03, 2023, 03:47:11 AMWhat cheese is in the sangers?
And is there pickle?

Yup Branstone (I've no idea if it was available in 1939) and a home made jar of piccalilli  ;)

Nice job Kit.  :thumbsup: 
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 03, 2023, 06:01:24 AM
Wensleydale - has to be Wensleydale, Gromit.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Rheged on March 03, 2023, 07:53:07 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 03, 2023, 05:50:29 AM
Quote from: zenrat on March 03, 2023, 03:47:11 AMWhat cheese is in the sangers?
And is there pickle?

Yup Branstone (I've no idea if it was available in 1939) and a home made jar of piccalilli  ;)

Nice job Kit.  :thumbsup: 

Branston Pickle introduced in 1922, so your filling of choice should be available, Chris.     Cheese is probably NAAFI mousetrap, but it might, hopefully,  be a good, mature farmhouse cheddar.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 03, 2023, 07:55:35 AM
Quote from: Rheged on March 03, 2023, 07:53:07 AMBranston Pickle introduced in 1922, so your filling of choice should be available, Chris.     Cheese is probably NAAFI mousetrap, but it might, hopefully,  be a good, mature farmhouse cheddar.


I'm pretty sure that painting in a layer of Wensleydale cheese and one of Branston pickle is WAY beyond my skill level in N gauge, even with a single bristle brush!  :o
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 03, 2023, 12:38:04 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 03, 2023, 07:55:35 AM
Quote from: Rheged on March 03, 2023, 07:53:07 AMBranston Pickle introduced in 1922, so your filling of choice should be available, Chris.    Cheese is probably NAAFI mousetrap, but it might, hopefully,  be a good, mature farmhouse cheddar.


I'm pretty sure that painting in a layer of Wensleydale cheese and one of Branston pickle is WAY beyond my skill level in N gauge, even with a single bristle brush!  :o

That depends on how thickly Edna has slathered it on, of course.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Weaver on March 03, 2023, 02:28:07 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 03, 2023, 05:50:29 AMYup Branstone (I've no idea if it was available in 1939) and a home made jar of piccalilli  ;)


So she does glass-blowing too eh? Versatile girl our Edna...
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: NARSES2 on March 04, 2023, 05:55:14 AM
Quote from: Weaver on March 03, 2023, 02:28:07 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 03, 2023, 05:50:29 AMYup Branstone (I've no idea if it was available in 1939) and a home made jar of piccalilli  ;)


So she does glass-blowing too eh? Versatile girl our Edna...

I typed "jar of" not "jar for"  ;)
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Gondor on March 04, 2023, 05:57:31 AM
Jar-Jar is NOT supposed to be in 1939 but a Galaxy far far away
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Old Wombat on March 04, 2023, 06:16:21 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 04, 2023, 05:55:14 AM
Quote from: Weaver on March 03, 2023, 02:28:07 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 03, 2023, 05:50:29 AMYup Branstone (I've no idea if it was available in 1939) and a home made jar of piccalilli  ;)


So she does glass-blowing too eh? Versatile girl our Edna...

I typed "jar of" not "jar for"  ;)

Yes, but you wrote "and a home made jar of piccalilli". So, to avoid confusing the pedants & giving ammunition to the troublemakers, you may have written "and a jar of home-made piccalilli" but I'm sure some here could find some way of twisting even that to their nefarious wills.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: NARSES2 on March 04, 2023, 06:34:44 AM
My defence lawyer is going to use the excuse that I took my "O" Level English at 14 whilst in the 3rd year and haven't done formal English since. I've told him it won't work as an excuse, but he reckons it's the only chance I've got  :angel:
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 04, 2023, 10:19:42 AM
I'm trying to work out what this has got to do with a 25 pounder gun/howitzer.........................  ;)
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 04, 2023, 12:15:14 PM
Nothing, of course, but since when has that ever stopped us before?? ;D
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 04, 2023, 02:36:20 PM
Hehehehehe, NEVER!  ;D
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Weaver on March 04, 2023, 09:40:04 PM
Quote from: Old Wombat on March 04, 2023, 06:16:21 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 04, 2023, 05:55:14 AM
Quote from: Weaver on March 03, 2023, 02:28:07 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 03, 2023, 05:50:29 AMYup Branstone (I've no idea if it was available in 1939) and a home made jar of piccalilli  ;)


So she does glass-blowing too eh? Versatile girl our Edna...

I typed "jar of" not "jar for"  ;)

Yes, but you wrote "and a home made jar of piccalilli". So, to avoid confusing the pedants & giving ammunition to the troublemakers, you may have written "and a jar of home-made piccalilli" but I'm sure some here could find some way of twisting even that to their nefarious wills.

I only twist things to my nefarious will when it's funny... :wacko:
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: NARSES2 on March 05, 2023, 12:32:45 AM
Ever since this thread started my brain has been trying to dig something out from it's many rows of shelves and filing boxes (it never truly embraced the digital age) and it finally has  :thumbsup:

What this build will need is a horde of the local schoolkids swarming all over the 25pdr, it is a Saturday so they won't be at school, and doing their level best to break it. The ultimate test of any form of hardware is to give it to a bunch of 10 year olds, or it was in my day.

Thought was sparked by a story my dad told me of a similar recruiting display by the Army pre war in Croydon, but instead of a 25pdr they had a 40mm Bofors.  Apparently the local school kids, which included his younger brother, broke it by trying to use it as a roundabout  ;D  Apparently a Bofors platform did/does not turn through 360 degrees ? The Sgt Maj in charge was not to happy when he came out of the pub.  ;D  No idea of the authenticity of this story, but I can just imagine it  ;D

Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Old Wombat on March 05, 2023, 03:00:29 AM
I've heard a similar thing about scientific theories.

The saying is:

     If you ever want to really test your new theory, put it to a group of 12 year-olds at a science camp.

Why?

     Because if anyone will, it is they who will ask the one question that can bring the whole thing crashing down.
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 05, 2023, 06:01:09 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 05, 2023, 12:32:45 AMWhat this build will need is a horde of the local schoolkids swarming all over the 25pdr, it is a Saturday so they won't be at school, and doing their level best to break it. The ultimate test of any form of hardware is to give it to a bunch of 10 year olds, or it was in my day.


That might be a good idea for our layout if it wasn't for the fact that N Gauge kids are absolutely MINUTE and they're the very devil to paint!

We've got a bunch of them to pose on the platform having just arrived from 'The Smoke' after being evacuated, complete with gas mask bags over their shoulders, and they drove my mate Harvey to distraction painting them.  :banghead:
Title: Re: RW 25 pounder and crew etc in 1/148 scale....
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 05, 2023, 08:23:49 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 05, 2023, 12:32:45 AMEver since this thread started my brain has been trying to dig something out from it's many rows of shelves and filing boxes (it never truly embraced the digital age) and it finally has  :thumbsup:

What this build will need is a horde of the local schoolkids swarming all over the 25pdr, it is a Saturday so they won't be at school, and doing their level best to break it. The ultimate test of any form of hardware is to give it to a bunch of 10 year olds, or it was in my day.

Thought was sparked by a story my dad told me of a similar recruiting display by the Army pre war in Croydon, but instead of a 25pdr they had a 40mm Bofors.  Apparently the local school kids, which included his younger brother, broke it by trying to use it as a roundabout  ;D  Apparently a Bofors platform did/does not turn through 360 degrees ? The Sgt Maj in charge was not to happy when he came out of the pub.  ;D  No idea of the authenticity of this story, but I can just imagine it  ;D



... then he should have been watching "Them 'orrible little'uns" like a Hawk... self-inflicted. Still, at least he wouldn't have had to have paid for it!  ;D
And the Section's number 2 would have had a Stern Talking To from said RSM...

The idea sounds like a good one, but I can understand Kit's objections...