It might have got noticed that I've been on a Bv 141 kick recently, and I've now amassed three of the funny looking things. The plan is to build an aircraft that retains much of the good ideas of the Bv 141, the excellent visibility and the load carrying ability, while at the same time not be so radically outrageous looking as the original 141. This would hopefully mollify the occupants of the RLM Techniches Amt and sell a few more airframes to the Luftwaffe.
(At the same time I'll be changing the engine, so while it may not be as radical a change as some of them being proposed, it may qualify for the current GB, I'll check with the mods.)
This won't need all of all three Bv 141 kits that I have, so I may have enough left over to do something else with the remains. ;D
Why Bv 148? It's the first Bv project no. I came across that hadn't been used properly. Of course someone here will come up with a REAL Bv 148 in an hour or two, so I'm perfectly willing to change it to a suitable alternative number. (Kit's 2nd Rule applies, as usual.......)
Will it have two engines and booms or two cockpits?
Not like the BV 282, I suppose?
https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=49628.0
Quote from: kerick on July 08, 2023, 09:33:19 PMWill it have two engines and booms or two cockpits?
Neither of the above. ;D
Quote from: loupgarou on July 09, 2023, 12:42:42 AMNot like the BV 282, I suppose?
Definitely not!
It'll only have ONE fuselage and only one , different, engine..............
Could some passing Mod please move this topic into the 'Re-Engine GB' entrie please, as the Mods there have given their approval for it as an entry.
A massive long winged glider version? ;D ;D :thumbsup:
Moved per request :thumbsup:
Thanks Chris. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Vostoc7 on July 09, 2023, 06:41:10 AMA massive long winged glider version? ;D ;D :thumbsup:
I repeat '.........only ONE engine...............' but it will have longer wings of course. ;D
I'm buried in different bits of the 141s now, luckily they're all different colours so I know which ones which.
It occurs to me that I could do a Whiffed M'box Bv 141 if I built one OOB but used the different parts and
didn't paint it! ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 09, 2023, 01:39:17 AMQuote from: kerick on July 08, 2023, 09:33:19 PMWill it have two engines and booms or two cockpits?
Neither of the above. ;D
Quote from: loupgarou on July 09, 2023, 12:42:42 AMNot like the BV 282, I suppose?
Definitely not!
It'll only have ONE fuselage and only one , different, engine..............
And a very good view from the cockpit... Something He-119 style, maybe?
Now I need to see it!
I have to build it first! :o
The "8-" number was assigned by the RLM rather than the manufacturer.
8-148 was issued to Gotha, supposedly it wasn't used because 1+4+8=13.
RLM 8- Numbers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RLM_aircraft_designations)
Welcome aboard Kit 😀
Please leave your luggage at the door ..someone will deliver it to your cabin 😉
I am really looking forward to this nut bar idea ..its gonna be very cool 👌
Quote from: jcf on July 09, 2023, 11:12:50 AMThe "8-" number was assigned by the RLM rather than the manufacturer.
8-148 was issued to Gotha, supposedly it wasn't used because 1+4+8=13.
RLM 8- Numbers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RLM_aircraft_designations)
I KNEW there'd be some darn reason why I can't use it, but...........
Kit's 2nd Rle applies, and.................
'The production 148s were built by Gotha as Blohm & Voss were too heavily involved with the massive Bv 238 flying boat';D ;D ;D
Here's the mandatory pre-build pic of the kits(s).
Bv 148-a.jpg
As you can see there are in three different colours, which should make for some 'interesting' build pics.
And this is how it's intended to look, but of course there's many a slip twixt cup and lip..............
Bv 148 sample.jpg
See, no booms, no asymmetry and only one engine. ;D
Great design , the original asymmetric is not my cup of tea :thumbsup:
And the propeller design is very good, could also be very nice on the backside of the wings ?
mmmmhhhh okay, doesn't work with the tailsitter design :wub:
Yes, I tried it like that, but it'd need a nose wheel.
It's a contraprop to absorb the engine power, and because it looks good of course..............
So that is three kits to get this underway.. Awesome :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
May only need two of them, but a spare is always handy. ;D
That's cool dude 😎
Reminds me of the Blohm und Voss P192.01.
Propeller behind the cockpit ..but the difference between yours and the drawing is that there are small wings connected to the cockpit but their also joined to the fareings around the wing mounted cannons...proposed as a ground attack aircraft. 😀
Bold plan! Curious about the landing gear - might have a rather wide stance? :o
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on July 09, 2023, 11:17:05 PMBold plan! Curious about the landing gear - might have a rather wide stance? :o
It would do if I left it stock, but I'm working on it.
Who'd ever put a dihedral break right in the middle of the main gear leg, eh? ONLY Dr. Vogt! :banghead:
You could just say that the number was reallocated to Blohm & Voss because the notion of using an
unlucky number appealed to Vogt's sense of the ridiculous.
;D
That could well be true! ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 09, 2023, 07:08:30 AMQuote from: Vostoc7 on July 09, 2023, 06:41:10 AMA massive long winged glider version? ;D ;D :thumbsup:
I repeat '.........only ONE engine...............' but it will have longer wings of course. ;D
iffed M'box Bv 141 if I built one OOB but used the different parts and didn't paint it! ;D
sorry missed that bit ;D one engine works for me, it's going to be a great looking build :mellow: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Thinking out loud here.
What if you had two engines? One in front of the props driving the front blades and another behind them driving the rear blades.
So not a contra-rotating propeller but two closely located (but not geared together) props turning in opposite directions.
Would there be issues if the rpm of the two engines wasn't sufficiently synchronised?
Could you feather one prop and idle its engine and then cruise on only one engine and prop?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 09, 2023, 12:51:34 PMQuote from: jcf on July 09, 2023, 11:12:50 AMThe "8-" number was assigned by the RLM rather than the manufacturer.
8-148 was issued to Gotha, supposedly it wasn't used because 1+4+8=13.
RLM 8- Numbers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RLM_aircraft_designations)
I KNEW there'd be some darn reason why I can't use it, but...........
Kit's 2nd Rle applies, and.................
'The production 148s were built by Gotha as Blohm & Voss were too heavily involved with the massive Bv 238 flying boat'
;D ;D ;D
I note that 2+3+8 also equals 13. :wacko:
I look forward to seeing this one built, it has sufficient
quirk to be interesting, even if it had nothing else going for it (it does, by the way, have
lots going for it). :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
(https://www.animaatjes.nl/eten-en-drinken/eten-en-drinken-plaatjes/nootjes-en-popcorn/animaatjes-nootjes-en-popcorn-8911375.gif)
Quote from: zenrat on July 10, 2023, 04:45:28 AMThinking out loud here.
What if you had two engines? One in front of the props driving the front blades and another behind them driving the rear blades.
So not a contra-rotating propeller but two closely located (but not geared together) props turning in opposite directions.
Would there be issues if the rpm of the two engines wasn't sufficiently synchronised?
Could you feather one prop and idle its engine and then cruise on only one engine and prop?
That's the same philosophy that the Gannet had, two engines driving a prop each. I've never read any issues of Gannet's engines going 'out of phase', and I flew in one once, but I wasn't taking THAT much notice of the engine rpms. ;)
But I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work, the engine's mass would be distributed further along the fuselage and might, or might not, give CG issues though.
The Gannet did exactly what you're taking about with the prop feathering, especially with the AEW3 version as they cruised at altitude on one engine, thus maximising their endurance.
That's going to look good Kit :thumbsup: Slightly Arado'ish to my mind ?
There were a couple of Italian types which had twin fuselage mounted engines where the prop shafts were offset and drove twin mounted, rather than contr-props. I've an idea at least one was built, though if it flew I know not.
Looks like those props might just be big enough ?
The left and right banks of Fairey P.24 Monarch H-24 engine could be run independently.
The right bank drove the aft propeller and the left bank drove the fwd propeller.
Fairey P.24 (https://oldmachinepress.com/2017/10/20/fairey-p-24-monarch-aircraft-engine/)
(https://oldmachinepress.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/fairey-p24-monarch-engine.jpg)
Hm, like two vertical flat-12s linked together?
Very ingenious. :thumbsup:
A very cool engine design for sure 👌
Now I'm wondering what aircraft it was used in ..or was it ever used 🤔
Kit - great project... but I have a question: Are the wings long enough?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 09, 2023, 12:51:34 PMQuote from: jcf on July 09, 2023, 11:12:50 AMThe "8-" number was assigned by the RLM rather than the manufacturer.
8-148 was issued to Gotha, supposedly it wasn't used because 1+4+8=13.
RLM 8- Numbers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RLM_aircraft_designations)
I KNEW there'd be some darn reason why I can't use it, but...........
Kit's 2nd Rle applies, and.................
'The production 148s were built by Gotha as Blohm & Voss were too heavily involved with the massive Bv 238 flying boat'
;D ;D ;D
Nope. Henschel built various other companies types and the designations didn't change. Blohm and Voss themselves built Fw 200 Condors but the FW designation remained.
It's still going to be a 148..................
The wings COULD be longer I guess, but the proportions are just about right on the drawing I think.
The crew nacelle is together now, and very neat it is too. Plus I've got one wing assembly sort of 'assembled', but it needs some sawing and gluing as yet. Not started on the fuselage so far, only in my head.................
Quote from: Wardukw on July 10, 2023, 12:23:40 PMA very cool engine design for sure 👌
Now I'm wondering what aircraft it was used in ..or was it ever used 🤔
Tested in a Battle. Photos in the Old Machine Press story I linked.
Perhaps the ludicrously overcomplicated BMW 803 as an engine choice?
IMG_2015.jpeg (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenginehistory.org%2FCAD%2FPasqualiS%2FBMW803A%2FBMW803A_01.gif&hash=4eefabc2ac7bedcc7e2491c60e5f91d24bec60fc)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenginehistory.org%2FCAD%2FPasqualiS%2FBMW803A%2FBMW803A_02.gif&hash=475a372f3dd29ece8721cd448741376653ea1a88)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenginehistory.org%2FCAD%2FPasqualiS%2FBMW803A%2FBMW803A_03.gif&hash=e61eb269fcb8f2184e7a2bf22af65653bf643ff2)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenginehistory.org%2FCAD%2FPasqualiS%2FBMW803A%2FBMW803A_04.gif&hash=0a4bf16faa872c2bc68d033aa2c107be1871e91c)
If ya complicate the absolute hell out of something then where's the fun in that ...that I guess is still BMWs way if thinking.
Jon that's a interesting read but mate that's a ugly install on that Battle ...but as Fairey didn't have a massive choice of aircraft to play with you can see why.
Fairey Battle test bed?
🤔
Fairey Monarch engine, perchance?
EDIT: ah, had I read earlier posts I'd have seen that reference had already been made to the Monarch.
Quote from: kitbasher on July 11, 2023, 12:15:19 AMFairey Battle test bed?
🤔
Fairey Monarch engine, perchance?
Yeah the Battle..definitely not my first choice for a complicated engine test bed that's for sure.
I had thought about the 803, but it's almost twice as powerful as the 148 would need..
A DB 603 or similarly rayed Jumo would work OK, but as the only visible bit will be the exhaust stubs, it can be anything I say it is. ;D ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 10, 2023, 05:50:45 AMQuote from: zenrat on July 10, 2023, 04:45:28 AMThinking out loud here.
What if you had two engines? One in front of the props driving the front blades and another behind them driving the rear blades.
So not a contra-rotating propeller but two closely located (but not geared together) props turning in opposite directions.
Would there be issues if the rpm of the two engines wasn't sufficiently synchronised?
Could you feather one prop and idle its engine and then cruise on only one engine and prop?
That's the same philosophy that the Gannet had, two engines driving a prop each. I've never read any issues of Gannet's engines going 'out of phase', and I flew in one once, but I wasn't taking THAT much notice of the engine rpms. ;)
But I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work, the engine's mass would be distributed further along the fuselage and might, or might not, give CG issues though.
The Gannet did exactly what you're taking about with the prop feathering, especially with the AEW3 version as they cruised at altitude on one engine, thus maximising their endurance.
Thanks Kit. I had forgotten about the Gannet.
All sorts of sawing, filling and hacking going on. Fuselage, cockpit and wings all in progress at the same time as each bit depends on the others.
One thing's only too clear, the Airfix styrene differs radically with each colour change, the dark green stuff is like concrete and the pale blue stuff is as soft as a marshmallow! Quite surprising really.
The port wing is a lot easier to lengthen than the starboard one as the required extension is exactly the length of the inboard, flat bit, but that's how I drew it up anyway! The starboard side will needs lots more surgery. Both will need some serious work on the main gear bays because, as Thomas pointed out, the thing would end up with an IMMENSELY wide track otherwise. Hardly required for a recce platform operating from forward based landing strips......
Here's the results so far, LOTS more to come.
Bv 148-b.jpg
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Oh a feeling i am about to know all to well myself in the near future ...if everything goes to plan ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 09, 2023, 12:56:29 PMSee, no booms, no asymmetry and only one engine. ;D
The Bv-148Z was different, see my twin-boom topic https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=20326.6255 ;)
You could go for twin fin and out a proper tail turret there. Sure I have a resin back end somewhere that could be repurposed. If not, the mould may lurk in a drawer.
I may have to scrounge a nose glazing if you have one spare?
Quote from: The Wooksta! on July 13, 2023, 04:02:35 AMI may have to scrounge a nose glazing if you have one spare?
I have, unless the one in use cracks when I saw bit out of it. But I'm confident it'll be OK.
Interesting... somewhere in this thing's development history, there has to be a horribly comic accident in which the cockpit pod comes un-fastened and starts rotating with the blades... ;D
My thought on a twin-engined Bv 141 was always to put a pusher engine on the back of the cockpit pod. It'd need to be water-cooled, of course, and the other one should probably match it, but that's nothing that a pair of sacrificial Fw 190Ds couldn't provide... :wacko:
Quote from: Weaver on July 15, 2023, 07:09:45 AMInteresting... somewhere in this thing's development history, there has to be a horribly comic accident in which the cockpit pod comes un-fastened and starts rotating with the blades... ;D
Don't think that hasn't occurred to me while trying to figure out how to model it with the props being able to rotate! :o
But I think I've figured it out.............
Quote from: Weaver on July 15, 2023, 07:09:45 AMInteresting... somewhere in this thing's development history, there has to be a horribly comic accident in which the cockpit pod comes un-fastened and starts rotating with the blades... ;D
I believe that this phenomenon is known as either "gerbilling" or "hamster wheeling" and results in a terminally dizzy pilot and vastly amused onlookers (from a safe distance). Air brakes deployed from either side of the cockpit pod might possibly save the day. Hopefully the potential incident happened during ground running.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 15, 2023, 07:14:33 AMQuote from: Weaver on July 15, 2023, 07:09:45 AMInteresting... somewhere in this thing's development history, there has to be a horribly comic accident in which the cockpit pod comes un-fastened and starts rotating with the blades... ;D
Don't think that hasn't occurred to me while trying to figure out how to model it with the props being able to rotate! :o
But I think I've figured it out.............
There's a relatively easy way to do it, but then you lose the ability to stop one engine... ;)
It may only have one engine eventually, I haven't decided yet.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 16, 2023, 01:50:27 AMIt may only have one engine eventually, I haven't decided yet.
In that case, you could do it like this:
A wide-diameter, rigid, fixed tube joins the front and back fuselages. The props rotate around the tube.
The engine drives the rear prop via an offset shaft and a ring gear on the back of the prop.
The rear prop has another ring gear on the front of it, which drives a set of pinions on fixed stub axles located around the tube.
The pinions drive another ring gear on the back of the front prop.
Lubrication and sealing are 'interesting'...
That's pretty much how I was thinking of doing it, yes. ;D
The easier port wing is done structurally, and the landing gear retains the same track as the Bv 141. ;D
Some PSR to do obviously, and I may file off ALL the original rivets and scribe some panel lines, much though I detest doing that. My trusty razor saw and big flat file are putting in some sterling work on this job, I can tell you!
Bv 148-c.jpg
The port wing still has some work to be done, but the work is pretty much the same, just with more parts needed for the root extension.
The fuselage work awaits some plastic tubing to go further, I don't have the right size to hand at the mo. :(
The protrusions just in front of the aileron are horn balances and should be separate. This should help::
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-2005-0725-526%2C_Aufkl%C3%A4rungsflugzeug_Blohm_-_Vo%C3%9F_BV_141.jpg
Yeah, I figured as much, the ones on the tailplane will be missing on one side though, as the added half will be upside down. ;D
That's a very good pic, thanks. A pity they didn't take it from a bit further back, and they'd have got all the wings in too.
That's looking great Kit...some nice plastic surgery that 👍 😀
With half wingspan at 0 dihedral, then a sharp change, maybe Jodel had an hand in the project...
" Most of the designs are recognisable by their distinctive wings, which have 'cranked' dihedral only on the outer third. From above or below, the wings are also distinctive as this cranked section of the wing tapers sharply towards the wingtip. "
From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodel
It is VERY Jodel like, yes..
But Vogt must have been a real masochist to have designed the main gear legs going across the dihedral break on the 141!
He came to his senses with the 148 as they're in the straight portion of the wing. ;)
Now it gets complicated........
Here's the 'engineering drawing' for the mid-fuselage props on the 148.
Prop scheme.jpg
The green bits are the fuselage walls, the red bits are extra circular bulkheads that fit inside the fuselage, or inside the props, the orange bit is a hefty rod that's glued in the bulkheads and joins the cabin to the rear fuselage, and the yellow bits are larger tubes that are glued inside the prop bulkheads but rotate nicely over the orange rod.
At least that's the theory, I'm about to start cutting plastic for the eight circular bulkheads, I may be a little while.....
Ummm yeah Kit...that's gonna be fun ..in a masochistic sort of way but with plenty of tea and biscuits good quality thinking can be had .
I am wondering how the rear section of the fuselage is connected to the front 🤔
That's what the orange rod is for, the left hand end of it in the drawing IS connected to the rear fuselage and the right hand end connects to the cockpit.
The (longer....) wings are somewhere in the middle. ;D
Just started to convert the centre fuselage of the pale blue 141 into a tube to provide all the extra fuselage bits I'll need. Of course it starts tapering immediately past the TE of the wing, so that means I've had to file off all the wing fairings and fill in the resulting holes.
If it was easy everyone would be doing it of course. ;)
Oh mate it's because it's not easy is why we do what we do and it's only us wiff builders who can do it ;D
So VERY true. ;D
Here's the bit if sacrificial fuselage from the pale blue 141 after it's had it's wing roots filed off, a surprisingly quick process as the styrene was so soft. It's a lot easier making the resulting holes rectangular and filling them than it would filing a bit of styrene to the exact curved shape of the hole! It'll need a bit of PSR and then a short skim in my mate Pete's teeny weeny lathe to make sure it's nice and circular later on tomorrow.
Bv 148-d.jpg
(a possible entry into the 'World's Most Boring Build Pic' competition. :-))
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 21, 2023, 01:50:25 PMSo VERY true. ;D
Here's the bit if sacrificial fuselage from the pale blue 141 after it's had it's wing roots filed off, a surprisingly quick process as the styrene was so soft. It's a lot easier making the resulting holes rectangular and filling them than it would filing a bit of styrene to the exact curved shape of the hole! It'll need a bit of PSR and then a short skim in my mate Pete's teeny weeny lathe to make sure it's nice and circular later on tomorrow.
Bv 148-d.jpg
(a possible entry into the 'World's Most Boring Build Pic' competition. :-))
Nope nope ..I'm not saying a thing ..I consider you a mate Kit and a mate leaves it up to other people to say how boring their build pic is ..that's what a real mate does :angel: ;D
As it's circular, wouldn't have been easier to find an appropriate sized pipe for that section?
Quote from: loupgarou on July 21, 2023, 11:55:27 PMAs it's circular, wouldn't have been easier to find an appropriate sized pipe for that section?
Just don't get any glue where you don't want it!
Quote from: loupgarou on July 21, 2023, 11:55:27 PMAs it's circular, wouldn't have been easier to find an appropriate sized pipe for that section?
I tried, and there's just nothing around that wouldn't need either building up or turning down to match the 141's diameter.
Hmmmm, slight balls-up on the bulkhead manufacture process............ :(
I cut ten 10 mm squares of 2 mm styrene, two spares,, drilled pilot holes and bolted them all together.
Bv 148-e.jpg
Then Pete chucked them in his mini-lathe and turned the block down to the required 9.7 mm exactly, and it took almost no time at all, he does this sort of thing all the time. ;D
Bv 148-f.jpg
Then we took the little block of circular bulkheads and test fitted them in the scrap 141 fuselage.
Bv 148-g.jpg
Errrrr, a SLIGHT discrepancy in the diameter I'll admit, so it looks like we'll have to do it all again but at least we proved the technique! ;D
No, I've NO idea where the '9.7 mm' dia. measurement came from, I've re-measured everything on this job and NOTHING comes to 9.7 mm. It should be 14.6 mm so I'm chopping up ten LARGER pieces of styrene now................
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 22, 2023, 05:50:28 AMHmmmm, slight balls-up on the bulkhead manufacture process............ :(
[url="https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=74062;type=preview;file"]Bv 148-g.jpg[/url]
Errrrr, a SLIGHT discrepancy in the diameter I'll admit, so it looks like we'll have to do it all again but at least we proved the technique! ;D
No, I've NO idea where the '9.7 mm' dia. measurement came from, I've re-measured everything on this job and NOTHING comes to 9.7 mm. It should be 14.6 mm so I'm chopping up ten LARGER pieces of styrene now................
Measure! Measure! Cut! ... Oops! ... Measure! Measure! Measure! Cut! ... Bugger! ... Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Cut! ... You've
got to be kidding! ... Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Cut! ...
Oh, for f___sake! ... Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Cut! ... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: I give up! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
If you turn 14.6 upside down and squint (or put on the wrong specs) it sorta looks like 9.7...
:unsure:
It's sorted now, a whole set of new, larger, bulkheads have been chopped, drilled, turned, re-drilled and even RE-drilled umpteen times, and now they all fit over their respective rods and tubes.
Two of them are even installed in place in the fuselage extensions. RESULT! :thumbsup:
So great work, it looks professionnal, not amateurish at all, yes? :unsure:
Not yet, but it will look pretty good when it's all assembled, I hope.
The main parts will need some serious PSR I suspect, but it wouldn't be a Whiff if it didn't. ;D
Here's the proper size bulkheads arrayed around the sacrificial fuselage before all the drilling and re-drilling. Because the styrene is so soft I had to step up the drills in 0.5 mm steps, which took a while to do, but it all worked out nicely.
Bv 148-h.jpg
Then it was a case of razor sawing the bits of fuselage into the correct lengths, also done on Pete's tiny lathe, then trimming their inner edges to suit and gluing the bulkheads on place.
Here's the assembled fuselage sections mounted in the positions about where they'll be when it's completed, with the original Bv 141 fuselage approximately where it will go relative to the new bits, after sawing it off in the right places.
Bv 148-i.jpg
Quote from: Old Wombat on July 22, 2023, 05:57:08 AMQuote from: PR19_Kit on July 22, 2023, 05:50:28 AMHmmmm, slight balls-up on the bulkhead manufacture process............ :(
[url="https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=74062;type=preview;file"]Bv 148-g.jpg[/url]
Errrrr, a SLIGHT discrepancy in the diameter I'll admit, so it looks like we'll have to do it all again but at least we proved the technique! ;D
No, I've NO idea where the '9.7 mm' dia. measurement came from, I've re-measured everything on this job and NOTHING comes to 9.7 mm. It should be 14.6 mm so I'm chopping up ten LARGER pieces of styrene now................
Measure! Measure! Cut! ... Oops! ... Measure! Measure! Measure! Cut! ... Bugger! ... Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Cut! ... You've got to be kidding! ... Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Cut! ... Oh, for f___sake! ... Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Measure! Cut! ... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: I give up! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Hahaha yup 😆
It's like that Hasegawa F-4 Phantom model..I picked that up last Wednesday and the whole way there I had the number 63 in my head for his address..yup 63 ..won't forget that..sweet no problem at all..63 ..now I'll just check his address one more time..43 :banghead:
I've got the central fuselage and prop hub assembly all glued together now, and amazingly it fits pretty well as I wanted it to, and the prop hubs actually rotate! ;D
It looks pretty messy, and it'll need loads of PSR I've no doubt, but the basic parts are now all there.
The big rod sticking out of the left hand end in the pic will be sawn off when it's all dried out and the cabin will be glued and PSR'd onto that end. I've got to figure out what to do with the far end of the tail yet, but so far it's not looking too bad.
Bv 148-j.jpg
I really do like these high end engineering builds :thumbsup:
For all the trials and tribulations they do award with a high degree of satisfaction when it come together. So I am cheering you on here.
Lovin the work Kit :wub: ;D
I already know this is going to be amazing.
:thumbsup: - :thumbsup:
I have been inspired by this topic into drawing still different Bv-141s, thanks Kit!
see https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=20326.6270
I'm surprised how well it all worked actually. The bulkheads needed very little fettling to fit inside the bits of fuselage, and one glued and set they were very strong.
Getting the prop hubs parallel was difficult, LOTS of filing in particular places to minimise the gaps between them, and while they're not perfect, they're good enough to my mind.
Actually what tour building is quite easy ....if you don't want the props to turn ....what your building thou is something very difficult..takes a heap of thinking and engineering to get it to work ..that's why this is a bloody impressive build 😊
Thanks so much, makes it well worth while getting the admiration of your peers. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The tail turret/fuselage section moulds are long gone. I think they went in the bin last year.
The masters were from the Toad Heinkel He 277 conversion. I think I have one tucked away I can strip?
Oooooh, that could be very handy, yes please. ;D
I need to go in the loft anyway.
Theres a simple fact about your build Kit...ya know its serious when ya have to use a freakin lathe mate ;D ;D
Besides i love mutant builds with alot of work because hints and tricks can be found a plenty which helps everyone out in our community which is never a bad thing ,,,ever :thumbsup:
Too true! Without Pete and his lathe this wouldn't have been possible, not in a sane time scale anyway.
I suppose I could have cut and filed every one of the eight bulkheads by hand, but they wouldn't have fitted as well and I'd just about have got it done by Christrmas!
Its one of those must be cut with a lathe things and as for every disc ..oh mate ...that would have sucked in more ways than I care to describe .
wow, some quality engineering going on :mellow: :mellow: :thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
Gallaudet D-4 propeller, in the background you can see the prop drive gear box. The engine was a Liberty V-12.
d4_prop.jpg
The prop rotated around the tube that connected the aft fuselage to the centre section, the tube was socketed into
larger tubes in the two sections.
d4_tailassy.jpg
The control cables ran through the tube. Aft fuselage mounted to a test structure showing the elevator control assembly.
d4_tailtest.jpg
The Gallaudet D-1 had two Duesenberg 16-valve, four-cylinder "walking beam" engines driving separate spur gears
through clutches, an engine could be shut down in flight to conserve fuel. The Gallaudet D-2 had two Hall-Scott A-5a
engines.
Quote from: jcf on July 30, 2023, 12:22:47 PMThe prop rotated around the tube that connected the aft fuselage to the centre section, the tube was socketed into
larger tubes in the two sections.
JUST how I built the model. ;D
I wish the wing was as logical, but the port wing of the 141 was longer than the starboard one. Just a tad, but enough to make extending them to the same length difficult.
Very interesting pcs Jon. :thumbsup:
Still really like how this is heading.
Jon, some of the pix you find are extraordinary
Got the starboard wing sorted out now. Well it will be after the inevitable PSR or course.
I've also positioned the cockpit from the original gondola on the front of the fuselage and after a bit of fiddling getting the angles right it's glued in place. It'll need some styrene fairings aft of the joint, AND some PSR of course, but it's getting there.
The main landing gear bays are in a sensible position now, and the outboard bays have been blanked off.
Here's the current state of the build with the wings just plugged in place. I've got to sort out the tail before I risk gluing them in.
Bv 148-k.jpg
Bv 148-l.jpg
;D ;D ;D. Love it 😀
The longer wings are a must for this as I think the proportions would be wrong.
It's better balanced now and the tail should finish off nicely 👌 👍
Yeah, it makes for a loooooong thin aeroplane, with the props in the middle.
Impressive build Kit. Intruiging subject and I like it. Can't wait to see it finished!
David aka 63cpe
Nor can I, but it's a bit of a fiddle. ;D
Here's a question for the panel. How should I paint it, just like a Bv 141, or as a captured Bv 148 about to be flown by Eric Brown, or some other Luftwaffe scheme, or.....?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 31, 2023, 02:10:43 PMNor can I, but it's a bit of a fiddle. ;D
Here's a question for the panel. How should I paint it, just like a Bv 141, or as a captured Bv 148 about to be flown by Eric Brown, or some other Luftwaffe scheme, or.....?
My vote is for RAF 1426 (Enemy Aircraft) flight.......................otherwise known as the Rafwaffe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1426_Flight_RAF
Swedish, the test pilot escaped to Gotland just ahead of the Red Army.
;)
Terrific stuff. Really is taking shape now :thumbsup:
Impressive. :thumbsup:
I'd go for something in a late war scheme but with the German markings with RAF roundels over the top and an Air Min number, for something displayed at Farnborough.
Yes, that's what I was thinking off for Capt. Eric to fly. ;D
There were some interesting interpretations of various markings at Farnborough and Boscombe in that period
I'm working on the engine installation now, and it's going to be an in-line inverted V12, like a DB 605 or a Jumo 222. The problem is where exactly would it go?
I doubt they'd put it right in the centre of the wing chord as they'd need a massive ring frame to connect the two halves of the spar, and it would have to pass right round the engine. Unlikely but not impossible I think. I'm using an ancient Lindberg Do 335 as a donor for the exhausts and the big engine air intake and they could go in either of the two positions shown below. It'll be a tight fit but there's enough space right under the wing roots, I've checked.
Anyone any ideas about those two positions, or any other ideas even?
Exhaust schemes.jpg
I would go with just behind the wing. It puts the engine as close as you can to the cg. Like you said, between the wings would be impractical and would add a lot of weight too. Just put fuel in front of the wing to help counter balance it.
Jumo 222 has very odd exhausts, two banks of four in the 2-6-10 positions.
(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/_ju288_v5_mit_jumo222ab_mai1941-jpg.467809/)
Neither is the 222 a V-12, as it's a 24 cylinder engine with the cylinders in a Y configuration. It was a car crash of a design and Junkers spent the war trying to get it right. It never did attain it's designed horsepower.
You could go for the shrouded exhausts of the 222s on the Ju 488 V-403.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.warbirdsresourcegroup.org%2FLRG%2Fimages%2Fju488-1.jpg&hash=f23c7997885a223e5a244cfd3179ccd565216f5d)
As long as the engine is behind or ahead of the wing spar, you could have it between the wing. Makes more sense, as you can hang it off the spar for a stronger structure.
The Bv 141 had a tubular main spar, so I'd think you'd have room to put it just behind the spar and use
a propeller drive gearbox that takes the shaft up over the spar.
7479e4a91e9a853d5f93fb57f0433d47.png
db605ab.png
Jumo 222 cross-section. It's classified as an inline radial,
having six banks of four cylinders each attached to an
hexagonal crankcase.
junkers-jumo-222-sectional.jpg
bv141a_web.jpg
bv141b_web_2.jpg
bv141c_web.jpg
bv141layout.jpg
Kit mounting the engine in between the wings is your best option.
A cyclical wing spar wouldn't be hard to design and done right would be far stronger as a circular shape is a stronger than a square or a rectangle and you could make say 4 or 5 cyclical mounts with the wings spars included as a single casting making for a extremely strong structure.
Mounting the first engine as close to the leading edge of the wing would bring you cg much closer to centre as you want to keep that as close as possible .
The further you mount the second engine backwards the more difficult getting a cg would be ..fact it probably be impossible as the front engine would then have to be moved forward as far as possible to counter the arse end weight of the rear engine which in itself still might now be far enough.
Hmmm, I must have picked the wrong Jumo, that 222 is MEGA complicated. I think I'll stick with the tried and true DB 605.
That spar makes it easier to have the engine more centrally spaced, I'll see if I can graft the exhaust stubs into the underside of the wing root fairings.
Right, that's got the engine installed. I bet they wish they could have done it that fast in 1943................... ;D
I marked out the position of the exhausts after filing them to size, then chain drilled around the outlines and filed and sliced till they fitted. It needed a bit of care gluing them in place unless they fell right through inside, but the socking great bar down the middle stopped them from going too far.
I also glued the massive intake in position on the upper side of the fuselage, and it's starting to look as I imagined it now.
Bv 148-m.jpg
Bv 148-n.jpg
Oh yes, you can just see the beginnings of the fairing that I've added so the cockpit/observation gondola fairs nicely into the fuselage. Lots of PSR to come on that bit no doubt.
The Jumo 213 is also a straightforward choice, and you'd probably have room in the
fuselage for one of the later versions with the three-speed, two-stage supercharger,
like the 213E used in the Ta 152H-1 with a max. rating of 2,250hp, and normal of
2,100hp. Junkers figured that with further development the design was capable of
2,500+.
Most production 213 were two-speed, single-stage. It was a better engine than the
DB 603 and DB 605 and it's cross-sectional area was less than that of the Jumo 211.
Junkers_and_Jumo213A-1.jpg
Motoren_der_Ju-88_Jumo211_Jumo213.jpg
OK, a Jumo 213 it is then. ;D
The only bits visible are the exhausts and the intake so it can be what I say it is. (Kit's Rule #2 applies of course.)
That's looks great Kit 👍 👌 it's given it the powerful look it needed 😊
Quote from: The Wooksta! on August 04, 2023, 03:39:21 PM(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/_ju288_v5_mit_jumo222ab_mai1941-jpg.467809/)
What is this aircraft please?
Quote from: zenrat on August 05, 2023, 10:33:07 PMQuote from: The Wooksta! on August 04, 2023, 03:39:21 PM(https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/_ju288_v5_mit_jumo222ab_mai1941-jpg.467809/)
What is this aircraft please?
Fred that would bea Junkers Ju288 ya have there.
Really like the way this is evolving with some thought around practicality, form and function :thumbsup:
Quote from: Wardukw on August 05, 2023, 11:03:47 PMFred that would bea Junkers Ju288 ya have there.
I've always thought the 288 and 388 were very attractive aircraft. It's the nose glazing that does it for me.
Thanks Phil. I like the ducted spinners. I've got a kit of an Arado with them. Wasn't aware they were used on other aircraft.
I'd like to fit some on something like a Beaufighter or a Yokosuka Ginga.
Defensive armament will be an issue unless you use barbets' on the rear fuselage as any rearward faceing gunner in the crew area has the propellors to shoot at.
Gondor
Hence me supplying a tail turret.
Quote from: zenrat on August 06, 2023, 04:07:24 AMThanks Phil. I like the ducted spinners. I've got a kit of an Arado with them. Wasn't aware they were used on other aircraft.
I'd like to fit some on something like a Beaufighter or a Yokosuka Ginga.
Ducted spinners were experimentally fitted to a variety of aircraft, here's three types as examples.
The Fw 190 V1 had a ducted spinner.
(https://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/germany/aircrafts/fw190/Fw190_prototype.jpg)
They were also fitted to the Fw 187.
FW187_DUCTSPIN_01.jpg
A Tempest also received one in combination with an annular radiator.
HAWK_TEMP_DUCTSPIN_01.jpg
I've got a Huma Ju 288 kit as well. And very nice it looks, but I'm not sure how to Whiff it yet.
Various people saw the makings of the Bv 148 at the Avon Show today, and the general reaction was 'Spackman, what ARE you on???' ;D
The only way I'd whiff a Ju 288 would be build it straight in in service markings. And then roundels and Air Min numbers. Others may wish to use other captured markings.
Make a holiday house out of your Ju 288.
Czech architect Jan Kaplicky, Vehicle 1980.
;D
VEHICLE_1980_01.jpg
VEHICLE_1980_02.jpg
VEHICLE_1980_03.jpg
Quote from: jcf on August 06, 2023, 01:57:48 PMMake a holiday house out of your Ju 288.
Czech architect Jan Kaplicky, Vehicle 1980.
;D
VEHICLE_1980_01.jpg
VEHICLE_1980_02.jpg
VEHICLE_1980_03.jpg
I'm not sure what is under that canopy but it's not a cockpit!
Makes me think of some sort of moon buggy.
If ya look at the bottom pic ..in the upper part there looks like a kitchen unit with sink and if you look in front of that there looks like a hand rail connected to what looks like a upper deck .
There's something seriously wrong with this as there is nit that much room in a 388s cockpit..the front is wide enough for one dude to sit and as
for bedding forget about that.
It's possible that this was designed for 6in tall ppl.
Quote from: Wardukw on August 06, 2023, 10:04:34 PMIf ya look at the bottom pic ..in the upper part there looks like a kitchen unit with sink and if you look in front of that there looks like a hand rail connected to what looks like a upper deck .
There's something seriously wrong with this as there is nit that much room in a 388s cockpit..the front is wide enough for one dude to sit and as
for bedding forget about that.
It's possible that this was designed for 6in tall ppl.
Architects.... :banghead:
Quote from: loupgarou on August 06, 2023, 11:54:09 PMQuote from: Wardukw on August 06, 2023, 10:04:34 PMIf ya look at the bottom pic ..in the upper part there looks like a kitchen unit with sink and if you look in front of that there looks like a hand rail connected to what looks like a upper deck .
There's something seriously wrong with this as there is nit that much room in a 388s cockpit..the front is wide enough for one dude to sit and as
for bedding forget about that.
It's possible that this was designed for 6in tall ppl.
Architects.... :banghead:
Could not agree more 👍
Quote from: loupgarou on August 06, 2023, 11:54:09 PMQuote from: Wardukw on August 06, 2023, 10:04:34 PMIf ya look at the bottom pic ..in the upper part there looks like a kitchen unit with sink and if you look in front of that there looks like a hand rail connected to what looks like a upper deck .
There's something seriously wrong with this as there is nit that much room in a 388s cockpit..the front is wide enough for one dude to sit and as
for bedding forget about that.
It's possible that this was designed for 6in tall ppl.
Architects.... :banghead:
Or its been scaled up.
1:72 people in a 1:48 model?
Quote from: Steel Penguin on August 07, 2023, 01:01:18 AM1:72 people in a 1:48 model?
Looking at that ..1/72 people in a 1/32 model .. or hell 24th scale.
It's stupidity over scale to the point it makes the 388 to the size of a 747.
OFFS, it's not a converted Ju 288, it's an air transportable luxury camping cabin that just
looks like a Ju 288. Kaplicky was having fun.
I posted it as a bit of fun, how ironic that it
prompted such JMNish reactions.
:rolleyes:
But that was BECAUSE it looked like a Ju 288 that people thought that way.
I'll have a look at my Huma kit when I get home next week, I recall it was quite impressive, both in size and quality.
Quote from: kerick on August 06, 2023, 09:39:36 PMQuote from: jcf on August 06, 2023, 01:57:48 PMMake a holiday house out of your Ju 288.
Czech architect Jan Kaplicky, Vehicle 1980.
;D
VEHICLE_1980_01.jpg
VEHICLE_1980_02.jpg
VEHICLE_1980_03.jpg
I'm not sure what is under that canopy but it's not a cockpit!
Makes me think of some sort of moon buggy.
I thought about grafting a rotor and a tail to it for an early helicopter design. (Retro) Moon buggy is a good thought, too. :thumbsup:
Fighting my way back to the Bv 148..................... ;D
The planned decal sheet for this, the Karaya 'Captured Butcher Bird' sheet, is EXCEPTIONAL!
Two of the Ta 152s had their RAF roundels fairly obviously hand painted in the field, and the decals show exactly that. :thumbsup:
Caprured decal sheet.jpg
Decal instructions.jpg
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on August 07, 2023, 10:56:56 AMQuote from: kerick on August 06, 2023, 09:39:36 PMQuote from: jcf on August 06, 2023, 01:57:48 PMMake a holiday house out of your Ju 288.
Czech architect Jan Kaplicky, Vehicle 1980.
;D
VEHICLE_1980_01.jpg
VEHICLE_1980_02.jpg
VEHICLE_1980_03.jpg
I'm not sure what is under that canopy but it's not a cockpit!
Makes me think of some sort of moon buggy.
I thought about grafting a rotor and a tail to it for an early helicopter design. (Retro) Moon buggy is a good thought, too. :thumbsup:
Now you've got my kitbash chopper brainwaves going again! Although the moon buggy is very tempting.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 07, 2023, 11:17:13 AMFighting my way back to the Bv 148..................... ;D
The planned decal sheet for this, the Karaya 'Captured Butcher Bird' sheet, is EXCEPTIONAL!
Two of the Ta 152s had their RAF roundels fairly obviously hand painted in the field, and the decals show exactly that. :thumbsup:
[url="https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=74561;type=preview;file"]Caprured decal sheet.jpg[/url]
Of course for realism Kit you would paint them by hand yourself and not use transfers... :mellow:
Quote from: zenrat on August 08, 2023, 04:01:42 AMOf course for realism Kit you would paint them by hand yourself and not use transfers... :mellow:
Yeah, right! :o
I'd never get that close to how good they look, even with a single bristle brush! One of those two sets of wonky roundels are DEFINITELY going on the Bv 148.
I've started PSR on the chunk of fuselage that's already assembled, and there's a LOT of it! You can hardly see
any styrene on there now.
Some of those roundels are very World War One'ish
If ya look at alot of captured machines from WW2 you'll easily find some absolutely terrible roundels..stars and crosses ..painted by blokes with zero artistic skills and I myself hate painting circles.
So decals it is ;D
Quote from: Wardukw on August 08, 2023, 10:15:49 AMIf ya look at alot of captured machines from WW2 you'll easily find some absolutely terrible roundels..stars and crosses .
D-Day invasion stripes... :rolleyes: :wacko:
Quote from: scooter on August 08, 2023, 10:30:11 AMQuote from: Wardukw on August 08, 2023, 10:15:49 AMIf ya look at alot of captured machines from WW2 you'll easily find some absolutely terrible roundels..stars and crosses .
D-Day invasion stripes... :rolleyes: :wacko:
Oh yes ..very ture..forgot about those :lol:
Quote from: Wardukw on August 08, 2023, 11:42:30 AMQuote from: scooter on August 08, 2023, 10:30:11 AMQuote from: Wardukw on August 08, 2023, 10:15:49 AMIf ya look at alot of captured machines from WW2 you'll easily find some absolutely terrible roundels..stars and crosses .
D-Day invasion stripes... :rolleyes: :wacko:
Oh yes ..very ture..forgot about those :lol:
There's a pic in a Squadron book, either P-51 or P-40, with a close up of a quite wonky Checkertail scheme... IIRC the caption reads 'Modellers take note and be encouraged.'!!
Quote from: Rick Lowe on August 08, 2023, 10:27:29 PMQuote from: Wardukw on August 08, 2023, 11:42:30 AMQuote from: scooter on August 08, 2023, 10:30:11 AMQuote from: Wardukw on August 08, 2023, 10:15:49 AMIf ya look at alot of captured machines from WW2 you'll easily find some absolutely terrible roundels..stars and crosses .
D-Day invasion stripes... :rolleyes: :wacko:
Oh yes ..very ture..forgot about those :lol:
There's a pic in a Squadron book, either P-51 or P-40, with a close up of a quite wonky Checkertail scheme... IIRC the caption reads 'Modellers take note and be encouraged.'!!
That's the thing ain't it..so many builders try to paint free hand and get it perfect but in the RW it's not like that at all.
The archtypal RAF D-Day stripes pic is one of a Spitfire Mk IX having them painted on with a couple of yard brushes! My Dad said they had less than 24 hrs notice to apply them and everyone was rushing around trying to find paint and brushes!
The Bv 148 WON'T have stripes though, D-Day or otherwise.
The splendid tail turret moulding from The Wooksta arrived this morning, so it's time to fit it onto the existing fuselage, plus any extension that will be needed, and it is....
Bv 148-o.jpg
As you can see in the above pic, I've plugged the wings in place and positioned the turret and tailplane in an appropriate position where they look right, and that leaves a substantial gap to be filled. What's left of the Bv 141 fuselage won't work as it tapers a lot, and I've already had to file down the turret casting to match the cross section of the fuselage.
I reckon the only solution is to use the centre part of the third 141 kit that I have to hand.
I've got the same idea for my Ju88 ..it's a simple turret to build ..it's a remote weapons system..a real one I have pics off.
The problem is the real fuselage which has the same problem as yours..the taper..I'll need to widen it quite a bit and I've no idea right now how :o
Don't chop up kit #3, as I have a spare fuselage I won't be using. I'll try and get it in the post tomorrow.
That is some impressive plastic surgery, Kit! You may be getting a call from the Kardashians soon.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on August 10, 2023, 01:37:01 PMDon't chop up kit #3, as I have a spare fuselage I won't be using. I'll try and get it in the post tomorrow.
Ooooh, magic, thanks Lee! I was JUST about to get the razor saw out too! :o
Quote from: frank2056 on August 10, 2023, 01:47:33 PMThat is some impressive plastic surgery, Kit! You may be getting a call from the Kardashians soon.
I'm not sure the putty I use will work on them. ;D
Quote from: Wardukw on August 10, 2023, 12:43:36 PMI've got the same idea for my Ju88 ..it's a simple turret to build ..it's a remote weapons system..a real one I have pics off.
The problem is the real fuselage which has the same problem as yours..the taper..I'll need to widen it quite a bit and I've no idea right now how :o
Plastic card wedges? You'd maybe need to cut some notches across the fuselage so it would widen without warping, but doable.
Quote from: Rick Lowe on August 10, 2023, 10:24:44 PMQuote from: Wardukw on August 10, 2023, 12:43:36 PMI've got the same idea for my Ju88 ..it's a simple turret to build ..it's a remote weapons system..a real one I have pics off.
The problem is the real fuselage which has the same problem as yours..the taper..I'll need to widen it quite a bit and I've no idea right now how :o
Plastic card wedges? You'd maybe need to cut some notches across the fuselage so it would widen without warping, but doable.
Yeah I was thinking along those lines Rick as it seems the easiest route and since you also had the same idea but with a with idea I hadn't thought of..notches..I know I'm on the right track 😉 😀
Quote from: Rick Lowe on August 10, 2023, 10:24:44 PMQuote from: Wardukw on August 10, 2023, 12:43:36 PMI've got the same idea for my Ju88 ..it's a simple turret to build ..it's a remote weapons system..a real one I have pics off.
The problem is the real fuselage which has the same problem as yours..the taper..I'll need to widen it quite a bit and I've no idea right now how :o
Plastic card wedges? You'd maybe need to cut some notches across the fuselage so it would widen without warping, but doable.
I've done that in reverse with a 1/24 car model that needed narrowing toward the front, and later on used the bits I'd chopped out to widen another one. Darned if I'd want to try it with a 1/72 aircraft though, there's precious little room for error. :-\
Quote from: frank2056 on August 10, 2023, 01:47:33 PMThat is some impressive plastic surgery, Kit! You may be getting a call from the Kardashians soon.
;D ;D Naughty :angel:
Quote from: NARSES2 on August 11, 2023, 06:02:17 AMQuote from: frank2056 on August 10, 2023, 01:47:33 PMThat is some impressive plastic surgery, Kit! You may be getting a call from the Kardashians soon.
;D ;D Naughty :angel:
Speaking of naughty.....
Most esteemed Sir Narses, may I point out that in your last post in the Finish It Group thread (now locked), you wanted to
"sit back and conjugate", it seems to me an activity exceedingly naughty, if not downright perverse. ;D ;D
Quote from: loupgarou on August 11, 2023, 06:28:41 AMQuote from: NARSES2 on August 11, 2023, 06:02:17 AMQuote from: frank2056 on August 10, 2023, 01:47:33 PMThat is some impressive plastic surgery, Kit! You may be getting a call from the Kardashians soon.
;D ;D Naughty :angel:
Speaking of naughty.....
Most esteemed Sir Narses, may I point out that in your last post in the Finish It Group thread (now locked), you wanted to "sit back and conjugate", it seems to me an activity exceedingly naughty, if not downright perverse. ;D ;D
This site never ceases to amaze me. I typed that, what, 10 minutes or so ago ? and I've already been picked up about it twice ;D
I've corrected it and have given myself 50 lines to do before close of play this evening. :angel:
Quote from: NARSES2 on August 11, 2023, 06:34:02 AMQuote from: loupgarou on August 11, 2023, 06:28:41 AMQuote from: NARSES2 on August 11, 2023, 06:02:17 AMQuote from: frank2056 on August 10, 2023, 01:47:33 PMThat is some impressive plastic surgery, Kit! You may be getting a call from the Kardashians soon.
;D ;D Naughty :angel:
Speaking of naughty.....
Most esteemed Sir Narses, may I point out that in your last post in the Finish It Group thread (now locked), you wanted to "sit back and conjugate", it seems to me an activity exceedingly naughty, if not downright perverse. ;D ;D
This site never ceases to amaze me. I typed that, what, 10 minutes or so ago ? and I've already been picked up about it twice ;D
I've corrected it and have given myself 50 lines to do before close of play this evening. :angel:
50 lines of what is the question..im thinking licorice allsorts...or maybe hob nobs .
If this thread drifts any further from its original purpose, it'll be off the planet! :o
I've started PSR on the 148's wings, and there's a lot of it as B&V flush riveted the 148 (see Kit's Rule #2...) as opposed to the 141's pop-head rivets, and that means I've got to sand off most of the details.
And it also means I ought to re-scribe some of it once the PSR is done too. :banghead:
That's the worst part Kit...I haven't had a great time with scribing.
The hardest part is keeping the ruler in place and cutting the panel lines..one way or another I'll find away to do it..my bloody left hand is the problem so I've got to find a way to work with that.
Quote from: Wardukw on August 11, 2023, 10:56:49 AMThat's the worst part Kit...I haven't had a great time with scribing.
The hardest part is keeping the ruler in place and cutting the panel lines..one way or another I'll find away to do it..my bloody left hand is the problem so I've got to find a way to work with that.
Disclaimer: Something I have read:
Some modellers use old-style Dimo tape (quite thick) It works well also on curved surfaces, but is wasteful of the tape. In a big job, can be costly.
IF you can find the stuff! I've used it before and it's pretty good on quite sharply curved surfaces, and can be re-used a few times too, but it seems to be almost extinct these days. :banghead:
Well that makes no never mind to me as I've never heard of the stuff 😄
Quote from: Wardukw on August 11, 2023, 02:17:39 PMWell that makes no never mind to me as I've never heard of the stuff 😄
You never had the joy of using a Dymo label maker? :wacko:
DYMO Embossing label maker (https://www.dymo.com/label-makers-printers/embossing-label-makers/dymo-office-mate-ii-embossing-label-maker/SAP_154000.html)
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 11, 2023, 12:31:14 PMIF you can find the stuff! I've used it before and it's pretty good on quite sharply curved surfaces, and can be re-used a few times too, but it seems to be almost extinct these days. :banghead:
They still make it, and there are knock off versions available from other manufacturers.
DYMO Embossing Labels (https://www.dymo.com/labels-tapes/embossing-tapes/dymo-self-adhesive-embossing-labels/SAP_1741670.html)
Knock-off on Amazon UK
Airmall Dymo Compatible (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Airmall-Compatible-Replacement-Embossing-Self-Adhesive/dp/B07CGDXW73/ref=sxin_36_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?content-id=amzn1.sym.e93afd76-4907-49cf-bd03-490067f24ced%3Aamzn1.sym.e93afd76-4907-49cf-bd03-490067f24ced&crid=37KSVGQ100M9L&cv_ct_cx=dymo%2Blabel%2Btape&keywords=dymo%2Blabel%2Btape&pd_rd_i=B09JNVBLVF&pd_rd_r=8d4ab393-b1d7-40a1-9b7c-97236c61fe34&pd_rd_w=zogTl&pd_rd_wg=wGNGK&pf_rd_p=e93afd76-4907-49cf-bd03-490067f24ced&pf_rd_r=TYHDPJRG97VKNZRVSK9K&qid=1691790958&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=dymo%2Caps%2C318&sr=1-2-1c12e6fc-61d1-41ee-8e02-a6ca5f2da604-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9zZWFyY2hfdGhlbWF0aWM&th=1)
Quote from: jcf on August 11, 2023, 02:58:28 PMQuote from: Wardukw on August 11, 2023, 02:17:39 PMWell that makes no never mind to me as I've never heard of the stuff 😄
You never had the joy of using a Dymo label maker? :wacko:
DYMO Embossing label maker (https://www.dymo.com/label-makers-printers/embossing-label-makers/dymo-office-mate-ii-embossing-label-maker/SAP_154000.html)
Oh now I know what you blokes are talking about and I've seen them before but they don't look anything like here that I've seen and nope never used one so no never heard of the tape .
Quote from: Wardukw on August 11, 2023, 06:51:54 PMQuote from: jcf on August 11, 2023, 02:58:28 PMQuote from: Wardukw on August 11, 2023, 02:17:39 PMWell that makes no never mind to me as I've never heard of the stuff 😄
You never had the joy of using a Dymo label maker? :wacko:
DYMO Embossing label maker (https://www.dymo.com/label-makers-printers/embossing-label-makers/dymo-office-mate-ii-embossing-label-maker/SAP_154000.html)
Oh now I know what you blokes are talking about and I've seen them before but they don't look anything like here that I've seen and nope never used one so no never heard of the tape .
It's useful stuff. It stays in a straight line while scribing. I haven't tried it but I bet you could cut a shallow curve and scribe that. Good for repeat scribes.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 11, 2023, 10:51:37 AMAnd it also means I ought to re-scribe some of it once the PSR is done too. :banghead:
Chris's First Rule - Remember you are 72 feet away :angel:
Quote from: NARSES2 on August 12, 2023, 05:58:35 AMQuote from: PR19_Kit on August 11, 2023, 10:51:37 AMAnd it also means I ought to re-scribe some of it once the PSR is done too. :banghead:
Chris's First Rule - Remember you are 72 feet away :angel:
:thumbsup: Which was why I never rescribed when I was still working in plastic. But also, probably, an advantage of the kits mastered by the Matchbox ditch digger.
Quote from: NARSES2 on August 12, 2023, 05:58:35 AMQuote from: PR19_Kit on August 11, 2023, 10:51:37 AMAnd it also means I ought to re-scribe some of it once the PSR is done too. :banghead:
Chris's First Rule - Remember you are 72 feet away :angel:
Yes, very true. But that big slab of a wing would look rather strange if it was smooth all over, like a Mosquito's does.
The back story (which is already written....) says it was designed to use as many production Bv 141 parts as possible, just with a different type of rivet, so it'll need SOME panel lines, just not a lot.
I happened to be building an old 1/72 F-104 kit (It was a bagged kit without instructions - it had raised panel lines). I was obsessing over what to do with the panel lines. A few days later, I went down to the Chino Planes of fame museum and they had an F-104 (https://planesoffame.org/aircraft/plane-F-104G) out in the bright sunlight. Not only could I not see panel lines (other than control surfaces and the nose cone)from 72 feet away, I had to get within a foot to see them.
I'd agree with your comment about the F-104, but technology had progressed markedly between 1943 and the late 50s.
On that actual web page about the F-104, the heading pic is a Meteor T7 and the panel lines on that are pretty obvious.
I've got the tail assembled now, two Bv 141 tailplanes joined end to end with a couple of modified Bv 141 fins/rudders plonked on each end. I think it looks suitably un-conventional for one of Dr. Vogt's creations. ;D
Bv 148-p.jpg
And yes, it's mounted on a low pylon because that came off the 141 production line as well.
The all new Rheinmetall-Borsig HL 148V gun turret is all assembled now, complete with guns, and it's had a LOT of filing carried out to match it with the 148's fuselage cross section too.
Bv 148-q.jpg
The little dingus sticking out of the middle of the turret is the 'Hinten Radarwarngerät', an early attempt at seeing the radar from prowling Mosquito intruders. ;)
And if you believe that, you'll believe anything. ;D
The Brits had a radar equipped anti-nightfighter turret, the Frazer-Nash FN-121, so why not the Nazzies?
;)
The scanning system had the rather amusing name of Village Inn.
;D
Automatic Gun-Laying Turret (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Gun-Laying_Turret)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Village_Inn_AGLT_FN150_Turret.jpg)
Very similar in purpose, yes, although the 'Village Inn' system looks a lot more practical from the size point of view.
The 'HR gerät' looks like a toy by comparison.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 13, 2023, 10:41:47 AMVery similar in purpose, yes, although the 'Village Inn' system looks a lot more practical from the size point of view.
The 'HR gerät' looks like a toy by comparison.
Should I make a Smart-Donkey comment along the lines of 'Ours is Bigger'n Yours'? Or would that be a bit close to the line - and The Book!...??
Nah, I'll leave it as unsaid...
...What? :rolleyes:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 11, 2023, 10:51:37 AMIf this thread drifts any further from its original purpose, it'll be off the planet! :o
I've started PSR on the 148's wings, and there's a lot of it as B&V flush riveted the 148 (see Kit's Rule #2...) as opposed to the 141's pop-head rivets, and that means I've got to sand off most of the details.
And it also means I ought to re-scribe some of it once the PSR is done too. :banghead:
The multitudinous panel lines are why my -141 has never progressed past the "I really must sand off those rivets and re-scribe this thing one day..."
Same with the couple of Airfix A-26s I plan... :banghead:
The first level of PSR's been applied, and those wings surly needed it too! And I've sanded the fuselage and tail and the wings and sprayed the first primer coat, just 'cos it seemed a good idea. There's lots of PSR still to go, but it's looking pretty good so far.
Bv 148-r.jpg
Extra fuselage section is enroute.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Just terrific stuff so far.
Pretty sure the real Wow !! will start once those Propeller stations get fitted out, then the whole look will change dramatically.
Looks nice and very scary !!
Keep here dangerous please .
:thumbsup:
Magnificent result so far. Amazing concept!
PSR is always boring but keep te spirit up and soldier on.
David aka 63CPE
Quote from: 63cpe on August 14, 2023, 10:54:54 PMMagnificent result so far. Amazing concept!
PSR is always boring but keep te spirit up and soldier on.
David aka 63CPE
I like PSR Dave mate...it's so nice when this ugly looking mess starts to take shape and when it's done gaps now have nice smooth lines 👌
Quote from: buzzbomb on August 14, 2023, 03:15:42 PMPretty sure the real Wow !! will start once those Propeller stations get fitted out, then the whole look will change dramatically.
The prop blades are the very
last things that will be glued on. For sure they'd snap off more than once if I tried to add them before the landing gear is in place. I'll pre-drill the holes for the blades ahead of time though.
2nd stage of PSR and primer has been done now, and the wings are pretty well done.
The F-104 was built to very tight tolerances resulting in panel lines that are barely visible under some conditions, however the rivets really stand out on unpainted airframes.
:wacko:
IMG_1965.jpeg
This will be anything BUT un-painted!
Has the package arrived yet?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 07, 2023, 11:17:13 AMFighting my way back to the Bv 148..................... ;D
The planned decal sheet for this, the Karaya 'Captured Butcher Bird' sheet, is EXCEPTIONAL!
Two of the Ta 152s had their RAF roundels fairly obviously hand painted in the field, and the decals show exactly that. :thumbsup:
Caprured decal sheet.jpg
Decal instructions.jpg
Ventura did something similar years back with a Bf 109 sheet for the special escort Bf 109s in overall 76. I used them on one years back.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on August 16, 2023, 03:12:18 AMHas the package arrived yet?
Oh yes, MUCHO thanks, just the job. :thumbsup:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 14, 2023, 09:39:38 AMThe first level of PSR's been applied, and those wings surly needed it too! And I've sanded the fuselage and tail and the wings and sprayed the first primer coat, just 'cos it seemed a good idea. There's lots of PSR still to go, but it's looking pretty good so far.
Bv 148-r.jpg
That looks really great , :thumbsup:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 14, 2023, 09:39:38 AMThe first level of PSR's been applied, and those wings surly needed it too! And I've sanded the fuselage and tail and the wings and sprayed the first primer coat, just 'cos it seemed a good idea. There's lots of PSR still to go, but it's looking pretty good so far.
[url="https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=74741;type=preview;file"]Bv 148-r.jpg[/url]
Smooth as silk Kit 👌 😉
This is going to be outstanding when done.
I've got to fill that gap up first. :(
It's a fair amount of work to do on the extra fuselage bit that The Wooksta sent me. I've cut it to length, and filed off most of the wing fairings, but then I have to fill the holes and PSR it into submission before I glue it all together. It'll be a while yet, but the rest of it is in good shape and it should be all ready to paint once the gap is filled.
Trust me Kit...my eyes are well and truely locked onto this build 👍
Cool. And what a huge beast!
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on August 20, 2023, 11:29:25 PMCool. And what a huge beast!
That's why it needs the Jumo 213. ;D
Lee's generous donation of an extra Bv 141 fuselage enabled me to make the Bv 148 somewhat longer (Kit's Rule #1 applies....) but it wasn't just a matter of gluing in onto the ned of the existing assembly, oh no.
The only part of the Bv 141 fuselage that's parallel sided and cylindrical is the part where the wings attach, and on the Airfix kit that has a hefty wing root fairing moulded on each side, so they had to come off. That meant 20 mins worth of hefty filing and lots of styrene dust on the floor, and it resulted in two wing root shaped holes, one on each side, which needed to be blanked off. Trying to cut blanks to fit those airfoil shapes is not easy, and it's a lot better to carve them into plain rectangles and chop up some styrene strip to suit, which is what I did.
Then there's the inevitable PSR of course, and finally I could glue the extra bit in place. It's too long now of course, but it's a lot easier to trim to length, bit by bit, than it is to re-glue some thin bits back on if It's too short, eh?
So here we are now, and I've got to tape the tail gun turret and tailplane/fin assembly in place and see how much I need to chop off to make it look right.
Bv 148-s.jpg
Like a pencil with a cockpit! Cool!
It looks as if you now have a Light-Sabre ;D
Gondor
Or a Sonic Screwdriver... :thumbsup:
Quote from: Gondor on August 31, 2023, 01:29:07 AMIt looks as if you now have a Light-Sabre ;D
Gondor
Darth PSR? ;)
Darth Kit? :unsure:
Quote from: Old Wombat on August 31, 2023, 06:39:28 AMDarth Kit? :unsure:
When I'm having an asthma attack I sound JUST like him! :o :-\
Quote from: kerick on August 30, 2023, 10:07:14 PMLike a pencil with a cockpit! Cool!
With a sharpener in the middle ;D
It occurred to me that having changed the engine from an air cooled BMW 801 to a liquid cooled Jumo 213A there ought to be a radiator or two somewhere on the airframe! :banghead:
So I found a duff Me 109G box with a few bits left in it, including both wings, and sawed the radiators off it, and they're now under the Bv 148's wings.
Bv 148-t.jpg
You can't really see them , so I've ringed them in red.
And I've worked out how long the fuselage ought to be on the 'What looks right, is right' basis, sawed off the excess length and glued the tail turret in place. The die is now cast!
Bv 148-u.jpg
Lots of fling, sanding and PSR to be done around that turret yet, but it looks how I wanted it to be.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :wub:
:thumbsup:
Its amazing how better the pics look when viewed on laptop screen than a phone ... :thumbsup: :wub:
Looks quite good in grey with the yellow bitey bit. ;D :thumbsup:
The wings are done and dusted now, all the PSR's finished and they're looking quite good, but they need the panel lines scribing and I HATE that, but if I don't it'll look like it was built by de Havilland!
The tail group is almost done, just a bit more PSR to go and that'll be that. The fuselage needs some last stage PSR and a few tweaks yet, but I've already painted the cockpit interior that all-over RLM 02 colour, just to test out the paint mix I tried, and it's OK, but gloss, darn it! :(
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 02, 2023, 03:54:42 AM..., but I've already painted the cockpit interior that all-over RLM 02 colour, just to test out the paint mix I tried, and it's OK, but gloss, darn it! :(
That's what clear matt paint is for. ;)
As I'll have to print some of the decals myself I'll need a 3 view of the aircraft to size them properly, and of course B & V never got around to making any drawings of the Bv 148, so I've had to.
This is what it SHOULD look like when it's done.
Bv 148 sample.jpg
That looks great Kit 👍
I'm getting all excited now and tings ☺️
Quote from: Old Wombat on August 31, 2023, 06:39:28 AMDarth Kit? :unsure:
I knew Dave Prowse, and yes I know he didn't do the voice.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 02, 2023, 09:39:37 AMThis is what it SHOULD look like when it's done.
[url="https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=75379;type=preview;file"]Bv 148 sample.jpg[/url]
It's looking very good Kit, but I have this vision of a special ground crew attachment running out with some props for the front end every time one comes into land. Human brain is a funny thing at times.
Looking textbook Luft46, very cool :mellow: :mellow: :mellow: :thumbsup:
Quote from: NARSES2 on September 03, 2023, 04:04:11 AMIt's looking very good Kit, but I have this vision of a special ground crew attachment running out with some props for the front end every time one comes into land. Human brain is a funny thing at times.
With the engine where it is, aft of the mainwheels, and that hefty turret waaaaaay back there, I don't think there'd be too much of a problem. I hope so anyway.
The wings are about done, I've scribed all the panel lines, a right pain of a job, but it's done, and all the PSR is finished too. I'm almost ready to glue them in place, but......
The fuselage has no panel lines at all, and as it's a cylinder a lot of them will need to go AROUND the fuselage and I just know I'll make a hash of them. :(
What I need is some sort of guide to align the scribing tools, but nothing I have is hard enough of flexible enough. Any ideas?
Dymo label maker tape works for me. It's been talked about here.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 03, 2023, 10:05:59 AMThe wings are about done, I've scribed all the panel lines, a right pain of a job, but it's done, and all the PSR is finished too. I'm almost ready to glue them in place, but......
The fuselage has no panel lines at all, and as it's a cylinder a lot of them will need to go AROUND the fuselage and I just know I'll make a hash of them. :(
What I need is some sort of guide to align the scribing tools, but nothing I have is hard enough of flexible enough. Any ideas?
6' rule? :wacko:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 03, 2023, 10:05:59 AMThe wings are about done, I've scribed all the panel lines, a right pain of a job, but it's done, and all the PSR is finished too. I'm almost ready to glue them in place, but......
The fuselage has no panel lines at all, and as it's a cylinder a lot of them will need to go AROUND the fuselage and I just know I'll make a hash of them. :(
What I need is some sort of guide to align the scribing tools, but nothing I have is hard enough of flexible enough. Any ideas?
A leather trouser belt, perhaps!
Kit that label maker tape seems to be the way to go.
I just brought 4 push broach scriber bits and the dude I brought them off is sending me a roll of that tape even though I just brought 3 rolls of Temu ..$7.50 nz with free postage :thumbsup:
I've got to rescribe a 32nd A-4..all of it ..im looking forward to it 😀
Dymo tape would work, yes, IF I could find any!, but nowadays they use a different sort and that won't work.
I've got a 6" rule, it's what I used to scribe the wings, but it doesn't bend.
The hell with it, the wings are glued on now, and the tail will be by bed time as well.
A bit late, but I have heard talk of cutting down a section of steel measuring tape (narrowing it a bit) and using that?
The retractable, spring-loaded builders' tape measure kind, I mean.
A brake line pipe cutter tool?
Now THAT'S a good idea! I can even adjust the depth of the panel line too! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
And here we have it, the complete assembly, with panel lines on the wings even! ;D
Needs some PSR on the wing roots, but this is a 1970s Airfix kit at its roots of course.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2854/1jjQd0.jpg)
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: love it 😀
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 03, 2023, 12:50:36 PMDymo tape would work, yes, IF I could find any!,
I've some I can stick in the post to you mate, I gave up scribing eons ago. No idea how much is left on the roll though.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 03, 2023, 04:52:17 AMQuote from: NARSES2 on September 03, 2023, 04:04:11 AMIt's looking very good Kit, but I have this vision of a special ground crew detachment running out with some props for the front end every time one comes into land. Human brain is a funny thing at times.
With the engine where it is, aft of the mainwheels, and that hefty turret waaaaaay back there, I don't think there'd be too much of a problem. I hope so anyway.
I think my brain hears a "snap" more than anything else, as I said the brains a funny thing.
Quote from: NARSES2 on September 04, 2023, 06:19:18 AMI've some I can stick in the post to you mate, I gave up scribing eons ago. No idea how much is left on the roll though.
That would be wonderful, thanks so much. :thumbsup:
Looking pretty weird & wacky, but, also, awesome! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :mellow:
Quote from: Old Wombat on September 04, 2023, 08:56:21 AMLooking pretty weird & wacky, but, also, awesome! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :mellow:
Wait until he puts the prop blades on!
Quote from: kerick on September 04, 2023, 10:15:22 AMQuote from: Old Wombat on September 04, 2023, 08:56:21 AMLooking pretty weird & wacky, but, also, awesome! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :mellow:
Wait until he puts the prop blades on!
Then he'll get another :mellow: ! ;D
Quote from: kerick on September 04, 2023, 10:15:22 AMWait until he puts the prop blades on!
They'll be very last bits I add, or they'll just keep breaking off without the landing gear in place. Even then they won't be fireproof of course. :(
The finishing touch!
This is going to be so good once done ..definitely 😀😁
The wings and tail are painted now, but I left the fuselage as I have yet to scribe the panel lines. I have an idea about doing that I may try later today.................
The cockpit is painted too, as much as it will ever be, so next to do there is to glue all the windows in. I have the pukka masking set for all those tiny little window panes, and that's going to take for EVER to mask up I know! :(
While De Luxe's Glue 'n Glaze may be the world's best transparency glue, according to the manufacturer, but it's a PAIN to use in the real modelling world! The nozzle is about 10 times as large as it needs to be (and yes, I AM using the small blue, add-on one as well....) and it spreads glue everywhere! Of course it gets all over your fingers and then you have to hold the transparency in place and your fingers are glued to it, as soon as you take your finger off, OFF comes the transparency as well. :banghead: :banghead:
It's taken me maybe half an hour to glue the three bits of clear onto the cockpit of the 148, and I need to lie down in a dark room for a bit now!
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 05, 2023, 05:36:58 AMWhile De Luxe's Glue 'n Glaze may be the world's best transparency glue, according to the manufacturer, but it's a PAIN to use in the real modelling world! The nozzle is about 10 times as large as it needs to be (and yes, I AM using the small blue, add-on one as well....) and it spreads glue everywhere! Of course it gets all over your fingers and then you have to hold the transparency in place and your fingers are glued to it, as soon as you take your finger off, OFF comes the transparency as well. :banghead: :banghead:
I put a blob on one of my old business cards, I was issued with a box load a month before I retired with a new logo :banghead: and then use a sharpened toothpick.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 04, 2023, 07:40:09 AMQuote from: NARSES2 on September 04, 2023, 06:19:18 AMI've some I can stick in the post to you mate, I gave up scribing eons ago. No idea how much is left on the roll though.
That would be wonderful, thanks so much. :thumbsup:
Went in the post this morning :thumbsup:
As an aside, where did you get that Hataka paint set from ? I need to pick up a couple
Thanks very much Chris. :thumbsup:
I used the toothpick trick later on too, it seemed the only practical solution.
That was the 'Late War Luftwaffe' set and I got it from Modelsforsale in Raunds, Northants. As I'm in the county this week I collected it last Wednesday too. ;D
Got most of the main paint colours on the wings and tail now, and the transparencies are all in place at last.
It's starting to look like an aeroplane, if ANY B & V design can be said to do that of course!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7719/BbMqqE.jpg)
Nice colours! :thumbsup:
(PS: I'll be disappointed if you don't take any pic's of the turret from the rear, even if it is slightly wonky! :( )
Quote from: Old Wombat on September 05, 2023, 08:46:39 AM(PS: I'll be disappointed if you don't take any pic's of the turret from the rear, even if it is slightly wonky! :( )
Maybe slightly off centre line then.................. ;D
:thumbsup:
That's looking great mate 👍 😀
A canopy glue I love using is Micro Kristal Klear ..tooth pic is the best tool here for us but it's easy to work with and you don't need much for it to work .
I glued a broken 32nd scale A-4 Skyhawk canopy together with and it's sweet now 😁
I used to use Kristal Klear, but it's not easy to get in the UK now and it's expensive too. the De Luxe stuff is almost exactly the same stuff and is a lot cheaper too.
The clear bits are on now, and have been Kleer'd all over, now I've got to mask them................ :(
Try getting a product called Glue n Glaze. Krystal Kleer in all but name.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on September 05, 2023, 10:15:34 AMTry getting a product called Glue n Glaze. Krystal Kleer in all but name.
It's the one Kit was swearing about earlier on.... ;D
Bravo Kit it's coming along nicely! Bravo!
David aka 63cpe
As the 148's cockpit uses the 141's glazing straight from the production line, it has ZILLIONS of windows, and not wanting to drive myself to distraction masking them up with tiny bits of chopped up Tamiya tape, I bought one of the pre-cut Eduard masking sets for the 141, the first time I've ever used one of these sets.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1187/gliRz3.jpg)
The yellow thing on the right is the sheet of masking tabs. No, I can't see them either, and even with a bright light it's the very devil of a job seeing where the edges of each tab are! The instruction sheet is on the left, and that's just HALF of it, there's a complete page of diagrams on the other side too! :o
There are EIGHTY NINE masking tabs for the complete aircraft! Luckily I only need to use the ones at the front of the gondola as the 148 doesn't use the rear, conical bit.
Here's my starting position with the job.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3376/JUSduW.jpg)
Only another 50-60 tabs to go......................
Oh yes, I chopped off the rear of the 141 gondola's clear area so it comes to an abrupt halt just aft of the rea gunner's observation window, as you can see the second pic above. It doesn't fit round the curved top of the fuselage very well, so will need some packing and some PSR to fair it in properly.
That's probably tomorrow's job.
Personally, I use regular PVA glue - in my opinion it's the same as Krystal Klear, just a lot cheaper - and has a multitude of uses around the home/office/workshop...
child safe PVA glue is my go to of choice as well,
cheap and easy to clean up
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 05, 2023, 12:15:36 PMAs the 148's cockpit uses the 141's glazing straight from the production line, it has ZILLIONS of windows, and not wanting to drive myself to distraction masking them up with tiny bits of chopped up Tamiya tape, I bought one of the pre-cut Eduard masking sets for the 141, the first time I've ever used one of these sets.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1187/gliRz3.jpg)
The yellow thing on the right is the sheet of masking tabs. No, I can't see them either, and even with a bright light it's the very devil of a job seeing where the edges of each tab are! The instruction sheet is on the left, and that's just HALF of it, there's a complete page of diagrams on the other side too! :o
There are EIGHTY NINE masking tabs for the complete aircraft!
An excellent reason not to build WW2 German bombers, I'd say..
Jokes aside, I'm rather impressed by your persistence. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Pellson on September 05, 2023, 02:12:22 PMAn excellent reason not to build WW2 German bombers, I'd say..
I'm tending to that point of view myself.............
While it saves hours worth of cutting lengths of tape, I'm finding that the Eduard tabs aren't actually as accurate as they say, and some need trimming to fit the windows on the aircraft. Better than being too small I suppose, but still something that needs attention.
I've given up on doing any more this evening, my eyes are starting to bulge!
Well that is a good move by the looks of it for this build.
Only used masks once, maybe twice and now a bit ambivalent as to whether they are worth it or not over the more traditional hacked up tape method
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 05, 2023, 02:39:55 PMQuote from: Pellson on September 05, 2023, 02:12:22 PMAn excellent reason not to build WW2 German bombers, I'd say..
I'm tending to that point of view myself.............
Ditto. Along with
ANY greenhouse canopied aircraft
Kit since I've built a crap load of German aircraft over the yrs here's a tip for masking those bloody nightmare canopies..super thin self adhesive metal foil.
It comforms to the shape easily and once you've pressed it in into all the nooks and crannies ya just cut around the frames..peal off the rubbish and all windows are masked 😷 :thumbsup:
That sounds a good idea, I may try that if I ever have a brainstorm and built another Luftwaffe bomber! :thumbsup:
Ah, I've a Huma Ju 288 kit at home somewhere that could be a suitable candidate, after a bit of Whiffery of course. I might even make the wings longer........ ;)
The canopy masking goes, and on, and on.............
It's pretty tiresome, but I expect it'd have been worse if I'd have had to cut the tabs from tape myself. As it is about 50% of them needed trimming to make sure they fitted as intended. Not quite as good as Eduard's reputation would have lead me to believe. So far I've got maybe 60-65% of the tabs in place.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3051/hUpRMo.jpg)
As this is meant to be a PR aircraft, over and above what was intended for the Bv 141, it needed a camera fit, and as the fuselage has some extra room in it I drilled a number of camera ports in the belly. After it's been painted I'll fill the ports with Glue & Glaze.
On which subject, the glue holding the forward canopy in place is USELESS, and has let go more than once, so I'm giving up on it there and I'll sand off the joint lines and use Revell Contacta sparingly and fill any gaps with Glue & Glaze. In the pic above it's just sitting there, not glued on at all!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4933/nHEpoL.jpg)
This advice may be too late, but run a #2 pencil (or similar) gently at an angle across the sheet. The lead will mark the edges of the window masks.
That could be the solution, thanks Frank. :thumbsup:
Why don't they say that in the instructions though?
Cos "Everybody Knows That!"... :rolleyes:
Yeah cause like where have ya been ..like under a rock or something ya know like :wacko:
I've been in this business longer than ANY of you, I'll have you know! :o
I just haven't used those mask tab things before.
Must admit I've not had any problems, other then self inflicted ones, with either Eduard or Peewit masks, but I've not had to mask any canopy as complex as that :o I'd have used painted transfer sheets or narrow masking tape.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 05, 2023, 08:49:54 AMQuote from: Old Wombat on September 05, 2023, 08:46:39 AM(PS: I'll be disappointed if you don't take any pic's of the turret from the rear, even if it is slightly wonky! :( )
Maybe slightly off centre line then.................. ;D
Remember it's a Dr Vogt design, probably intentional ;)
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 06, 2023, 08:40:30 PMWhy don't they say that in the instructions though?
Why would they, though? Aren't you a 27 year old with 20/15 vision and the steady hands of a neurosurgeon?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 07, 2023, 03:07:55 AMI've been in this business longer than ANY of you, I'll have you know! :o
I just haven't used those mask tab things before.
Funnily Kit here I am giving you crap and I've just figured I've never used one of those masking sets either :o
I've always used scotch tape as it sticks very nicely and it's easy to cut.
Then I found the Model Master chrome foil..masking had never been easier and it's fast once ya get used to it .
I'm gonna be using it on my Ju88 builds and strangely..im looking forward to it 🙂
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 07, 2023, 03:07:55 AMI've been in this business longer than ANY of you, I'll have you know! :o
Kit, you've been in this game longer than most of us have been
alive! ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Wardukw on September 07, 2023, 12:14:23 PMThen I found the Model Master chrome foil..masking had never been easier and it's fast once ya get used to it .
I'm gonna be using it on my Ju88 builds and strangely..im looking forward to it 🙂
I may have to try that. :unsure:
Quote from: Old Wombat on September 08, 2023, 03:10:57 AMKit, you've been in this game longer than most of us have been alive! ;D ;D ;D
Hm, yes, you could be right there. ;D
GOOD progress on the 148 today. I took Pellson's idea about the pipe cutter on board and bought one on ebay, cost me all of £5.95! I had one of my own already but it's designed for hydraulic pipework around 1-2" in diameter, not a few millimetres!
Here's the little thing at work.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/33/V01WFb.jpg)
Of course it only works on totally circular pipes or fuselages, and much though I'd like it, the 148's fuselage isn't, what with all the PSR etc. but it's close.
The result looks like this.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5170/1F4qSJ.jpg)
Close enough for Government work (or RLM work....) after a bit of cleaning up and enhancement. And as Chris' Dymo tape arrived as well I can scribe the rest of the job later on today with luck.
RESULT! ;D
Cool! I'll have to remember that.
Quote from: Old Wombat on September 08, 2023, 03:10:57 AMQuote from: Wardukw on September 07, 2023, 12:14:23 PMThen I found the Model Master chrome foil..masking had never been easier and it's fast once ya get used to it .
I'm gonna be using it on my Ju88 builds and strangely..im looking forward to it 🙂
I may have to try that. :unsure:
The slightly amusing thing here of course, and Kit will bear me out, is that 50/60 years ago bare metal foil was the latest thing in so far as masking canopies was concerned. Indeed some of us youngsters even tried using Baco Foil, until our mums caught us :angel: What goes around comes around ;)
The thought of a "production" Bv 141B in late war colours is quite appealing. I've been doing some pre assembly work on one.
Quote from: NARSES2 on September 08, 2023, 06:14:04 AMThe slightly amusing thing here of course, and Kit will bear me out, is that 50/60 years ago bare metal foil was the latest thing in so far as masking canopies was concerned. Indeed some of us youngsters even tried using Baco Foil, until our mums caught us :angel: What goes around comes around ;)
I'm not sure what else we COULD use, as Tamiya type tape hadn't been invented then. Humbrol Maskol of the period was a disaster as it dried hard and then WOULDN'T come off!
I even covered whole models in Bacofoil for an NMF finish back then, took for ever, but looked really good. I've still got one of them, an RW 1/72 Bonanza Airlines Fairchild-Fokker F-227.
I would think there would be a whole thesis on Modelling Trends, tips and Techniques - Antiquity to the Modern Era - Modelling methods rediscovered.
Quote from: buzzbomb on September 08, 2023, 03:55:14 PMI would think there would be a whole thesis on Modelling Trends, tips and Techniques - Antiquity to the Modern Era - Modelling methods rediscovered.
I'm actually surprised no one has done a Phd on it ;)
Quote from: NARSES2 on September 09, 2023, 07:00:33 AMQuote from: buzzbomb on September 08, 2023, 03:55:14 PMI would think there would be a whole thesis on Modelling Trends, tips and Techniques - Antiquity to the Modern Era - Modelling methods rediscovered.
I'm actually surprised no one has done a Phd on it ;)
As has been posted before -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xxort_R3kY
IIRC There's certainly a known problem in finding something that
hasn't been done for a thesis... I guess no-one's ventured this far out as yet.
Maybe a new well to gather from... or depths to plumb... :rolleyes:
Paul Budzik (https://paulbudzik.com/index.html) has some great techniques, many "old" school.
Quote from: frank2056 on September 09, 2023, 07:19:56 PMPaul Budzik (https://paulbudzik.com/index.html) has some great techniques, many "old" school.
I've filed that, thanks for the link. :thumbsup:
I notice he doesn't have a section on brush painting though....................
I've been tarting up the cockpits of a trio of 141s, using a photo of the Hobbyboss 48th kit as a template. Mind, it's almost pointless as you can see sod all through the canopy. I'll post a photo later.
As promised.
FD33B1C5-F73A-4F99-A3D0-5DC596BDDA74.jpeg
C700897A-1FCB-47C0-B6DB-ED8019EB950B.jpeg
Adding the same parts to a long stalled one
E2B9437F-0FFE-43B5-8D5F-2E0177BE465C.jpeg
Nice work Lee. :thumbsup:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 09, 2023, 10:46:29 PMQuote from: frank2056 on September 09, 2023, 07:19:56 PMPaul Budzik (https://paulbudzik.com/index.html) has some great techniques, many "old" school.
I've filed that, thanks for the link. :thumbsup:
I notice he doesn't have a section on brush painting though....................
I notice he hasn't posted many whiffs... ;)
Quote from: zenrat on September 10, 2023, 04:34:55 AMNice work Lee. :thumbsup:
Just some basic card to liven it up.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on September 10, 2023, 04:57:59 AMQuote from: zenrat on September 10, 2023, 04:34:55 AMNice work Lee. :thumbsup:
Just some basic card to liven it up.
But it still adds something. Even the
suggestion of detail is better than the not-very-much they give you in the box. :thumbsup:
There's some odd shaped magazine holders that should be there, plus a tube leading down from the upper gun, but I think I've really done enough. Just the observer's seat to go onto the rails and I have a resin one that's ideal. The pilot's seat is crap and bears no resemblance to the real thing, but as two were already in, I just went with it.
You can go too far down this rabbithole. I just wanted something a tad better.
A TRIO of 141s? :o :o
Are we expect some in Spanish markings then?
Two are, the third will be captured but I'm undecided as to a scheme.
Three does sound a bit much, but one is a salvage built originally in 1993 and the other was built 20 years ago and stalled. Getting some of the bits into the cockpit was challenging.
What about something along the lines of a Bf-110 Night Fighter scheme?
Idea is that it was a project involving a camera aircraft accompanying said Night Fighters to film them downing the Bomber Scourge; thrilling 'Wagemut' for the masses in the Kinos.
Actually, given that the Fw 189 was used as a nightfighter against Po 2s, one with radar in a nightfighter scheme isn't too much of a stretch. See also Siebel Si 204 and He 111.
I'd forgotten that (if I ever knew it...) - yeah, it would have been slow enough to have a better chance of keeping up (down?) with them.
Maybe one used by the French in Indochina, against the Viet Minh's Po 2s?
Or in South Korean markings, ditto?
Dragging this thread back to its roots ;D the panel lime scribing on the 148 has gone as far as it's going to go now. It's too much of a fiddle to do any more when the wings and tail keep getting in the way of my heft hands.
I'm also, sloooooowly, getting the masking tabs in place on the cockpit glazing but it's a mind numbing task.
I've also almost got the fairing done aft of the cockpit, just a bit of PSR (famous last words....) to do and I can start painting the fuselage.
SQURREL!
or
SHINY THING!
;D
Yeah, sorry Kit... :thumbsup:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 11, 2023, 07:01:31 AMDragging this thread back to its roots ;D the panel lime scribing on the 148 has gone as far as it's going to go now. ...
I've heard of kaffir limes but what's a panel lime & why are you scribing them onto your aircraft? :o
Dragging the thread away from its roots, again... :wacko:
Yeah, well, it's like this..........................
I think you're confusing me with someone who gives a damn about spelling. ;D
Thank goodness I've done with masking all those zillions of tint windows! It would have been enough to drive me to drink, except that would have triggered my asthma and I'd have been off to A&E in double quick time!
And I only used the front half of the masks too, the rear part of the 141 gondola wasn't used on the 148s.
Here's the main canopy in all it's glory.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2839/J1NvBB.jpg)
That's THIRTY SEVEN masking tabs on there! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Ooh, yeah - gives me flashbacks to when I masked an Fw-189... :banghead:
And I still have my own Bv-141 in the future... ah well.
But at least you had a mask set - mine was (and will be) cutting up Tamiya tape... Oy...
If you have any clear/Klear/clear paint - put a thin layer over everything first, let it dry then apply the exterior color. You'll have to remove the masks carefully(and maybe help some along by cutting along the edges) but it'll reduce or eliminate paint seeping under the masks.
Not a silly idea, and one I keep forgetting. :banghead:
So rounding the turn into the back straight....
Really nice work on that masking. The next trick is to find them all after you paint.
Quote from: buzzbomb on September 15, 2023, 04:31:48 PMSo rounding the turn into the back straight....
Really nice work on that masking. The next trick is to find them all after you paint.
To misquote Brian Hanrahan "You count them all on and you count them all off" ;)
Quote from: frank2056 on September 15, 2023, 04:22:57 PMIf you have any clear/Klear/clear paint - put a thin layer over everything first, let it dry then apply the exterior color. You'll have to remove the masks carefully(and maybe help some along by cutting along the edges) but it'll reduce or eliminate paint seeping under the masks.
Yup, I've quite often used thinned Klear. As you say you you have to be careful when removing them, but it does help.
Quote from: frank2056 on September 15, 2023, 04:22:57 PMIf you have any clear/Klear/clear paint - put a thin layer over everything first, let it dry then apply the exterior color. You'll have to remove the masks carefully(and maybe help some along by cutting along the edges) but it'll reduce or eliminate paint seeping under the masks.
Er, yeah. I've been doing that since they invented Klear actually. ;D
I find it easier to glue the canopy to the plane before masking it.
I did originally, but the Glue & Glaze just didn't work, and that big canopy kept falling off. :(
I cleaned all the old G&G off and now it's glued on properly with Revell Contacta cement, plus I've painted all the lower half with the pale blue now, except the masked bits on the canopy.
Here's another question about the colours too. As the props are rotating around the fuselage, what colour should I paint the prop hubs? As sometimes they'll be one way up and sometimes the opposite, it's no good painting them blue underneath and brown/green on top as less than a second later they'll be other way up!
I'm tending toward doing both the blades and the hubs in Schwarzgrun, one my fave Luftwaffe colours (I've NO idea what RLM no. it is, sorry)
Anyone else any ideas on that?
Quartered in black & white.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 16, 2023, 04:37:30 AMI'm tending toward doing both the blades and the hubs in Schwarzgrun, one my fave Luftwaffe colours (I've NO idea what RLM no. it is, sorry)
Anyone else any ideas on that?
RLM - 70, SCHWARZGRÜN ( black-green ) seems as good a colour as any.
German props were always in RLM 70.
At last all the airframe is together and all the PSR's done. :thumbsup:
I've got to figure out the upper fuselage colours, and whether to add mottle or not, it seems lots of 1944 Luftwaffe aircraft did, but not all.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9500/jI0oO1.jpg)
The tailwheel's already in place, you can JUST see it in the pic, and next it's the main gear. And THEN I can put the prop blades on. ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 16, 2023, 04:37:30 AMHere's another question about the colours too. As the props are rotating around the fuselage, what colour should I paint the prop hubs? As sometimes they'll be one way up and sometimes the opposite, it's no good painting them blue underneath and brown/green on top as less than a second later they'll be other way up!
I'm tending toward doing both the blades and the hubs in Schwarzgrun, one my fave Luftwaffe colours (I've NO idea what RLM no. it is, sorry)
Blades in Schwarzgrun as Lee says and if you want the prop hubs to be different then how about good old RLM 02 ?
Quote from: NARSES2 on September 17, 2023, 05:26:25 AMBlades in Schwarzgrun as Lee says and if you want the prop hubs to be different then how about good old RLM 02 ?
That was my thinking actually, but earlier on someone said that 02 wasn't used by 1944, and had been replaced by, er, something else that's a sort of dark black colour.
(I just can't think in those numbers, sorry)
How about the whole hub(s) in Schwarzgrun?
I'm toying with the idea of doing one hub like that and one quartered in black and white as Womby suggested. ;D
All the basic paint is on the 148 now, after a mammoth masking and painting session today. If I'd have been Humbrol enamels as I used to this session would have taken me DAYS, not hours. Thank goodness for Hataka and Tamiya acrylics. :thumbsup:
Here's the upper and lower views as they are at present. I've some blending and mottling to do on the sides, where the brown/violet or green meets the Sky side stripe , and where the Sky meets the pale blue underside.
(Yes, I KNOW it's not really Sky, but it's almost the same and I used Hataka Sky for it.....)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2786/MJhAuR.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8038/sQIJnr.jpg)
There's a fair amount of tidying up to do, plus some detail painting too. I've painted the landing gear as well, but I have to do the tyres yet, and I HATE that. Luckily Eduard provide wheel masks in their kit of tabs and I'll give them a go and see how they work.
Might even get some decals on next week. ;D
Oh yes, I decided to go with all Schwarzgrun for the prop hubs, they are part of the props after all, and they're done now.
Freaking love it Kit 😀 :thumbsup:
Magnificent job. Congrats for getting so close to completion.
Can't wait to see it finished..
David aka 63CPE
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 17, 2023, 05:50:12 AMThat was my thinking actually, but earlier on someone said that 02 wasn't used by 1944, and had been replaced by, er, something else that's a sort of dark black colour.
(I just can't think in those numbers, sorry)
They weren't using it for cockpit interiors, RLM 66 instead I think, but there must of been buckets of it in the stores, and by 1945 if it was in the stores it got used looking at some of the schemes I've seen. ;) A bit like the RAF in 1940, Sky may well of been specified for the undersides, but anything vaguely sky bluish got used. ;D
I've been wondering if this so called RLM 99 which is so similar to Sky was in fact Sky that the Germans' captured during their advance through France in 1940 ? :angel:
Looking good Kit :thumbsup:
I used some 02 on the wheel hubs, I hope the Gestapo won't haul me off because of that.......... ;D
Herewith, a list of Reichs Luftfaht Ministerium (German Air Ministry) approved colours, so that everyone knows what we are discussing . In 1943, Albert Speer Speer introduced to the industry the same measures of self-regulation that he had introduced in other areas of industry and as a result the RLM's colour designations were less rigorously enforced. By 1945,it is reported by some authors that the aero industry was in such a state of tumult that any reasonable colour that was available was used.**
**This is your "Get out of jail free" card when assailed by JMNs.
RLM - 01, SILBER ( silver )
RLM - 02, GRAU ( grey )
RLM - 04, GELB ( yellow )
RLM - 21, WEIß ( white)
RLM - 22, SCHWARZ ( black )
RLM - 23, ROT ( red )
RLM - 24, DUNKELBLAU ( dark blue )
RLM - 25, HELLGRÜN ( light green )
RLM - 26, BRAUN ( brown )
RLM - 27, GELB ( yellow )
RLM - 28, WEINROT ( maroon )
RLM - 61, DUNKELBRAUN ( dark brown )
RLM - 62, GRÜN ( green)
RLM - 63v.1, GRÜNGRAU ( green-grey)
RLM - 63v.2, LICHTGRAU ( light grey)
RLM - 65, HELLBLAU ( light blue )
RLM - 66, SCHWARZGRAU ( black-grey )
RLM - 70, SCHWARZGRÜN ( black-green )
RLM - 71, DUNKELGRÜN ( dark green )
RLM - 72, GRÜN ( green )
RLM - 73, GRÜN ( green )
RLM - 74v.1, GRÜNGRAU ( grey-green )
RLM - 74v.2, GRÜNGRAU ( grey-green )
RLM - 75, GRAUVIOLETT ( grey-violet )
RLM - 76, LICHTBLAU ( light blue)
RLM - 77, HELLGRAU ( light grey)
RLM - 78, HELLBLAU ( light blue )
RLM - 79, SANDGELB ( sand-yellow )
RLM - 79, SANDBRAUN ( sand-brown)
RLM - 80, OLIVGRÜN ( olive-green )
RLM - 81v.1, BRAUNVIOLETT ( brown-violet )
RLM - 81v.2, BRAUNVIOLETT ( brown-violet )
RLM - 81v.3, BRAUNVIOLETT ( brown-violet )
RLM -82, LICHTGRÜN ( light green )
RLM -83, DUNKELBLAU ( dark-blue )
RLM -84v.1, GRAUBLAU ( green-blue )
RLM -84v.2, GRAUBLAU ( green-grey )
RLM -84v.3, GRAUBLAU ( green-blue )
Quote from: Rheged on September 18, 2023, 09:29:59 AMRLM -84v.1, GRAUBLAU ( green-blue )
RLM -84v.2, GRAUBLAU ( green-grey )
RLM -84v.3, GRAUBLAU ( green-blue )
This is confusing, because my near non-existant understanding of German is telling me they
ALL translate to Grey-Blue! :unsure:
Wheel hubs were usually gloss black.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on September 19, 2023, 04:22:45 AMWheel hubs were usually gloss black.
That's easy to fix, but it's a pity such info doesn't seem to appear very widely.
Luckily it's a Whiff of course. ;D
The overall paint scheme's done now, not quite as I wanted it as the blurred splodges on the fuselage sides didn't work really, but the various colours have suitably uneven edges to them anyway.
The landing gear is painted and ready to assemble, but I'm going to put he first layer, the Luftwaffe ones, of decals on now. The Air Min ones go on afterwards. ;D
Eventually I'll put the prop blades on, I promise. ;)
Here, for a limited time only, is the Bv 148 in its Luftwaffe colour scheme. ;D
It's about to be captured by the Allied forces after the D-Day invasion and will be rapidly 'impressed' into the RAF, or at least the Air Ministry anyway. ;)
Watch this space..........
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5788/bPwaJF.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9435/7njok2.jpg)
Very nice!! This would have kept British engineers very busy.
I really do like this ..it's designed with a small amount of pure nuttiness and a large amount of brilliance..epicly cool 👍 😄
Love it.. really do.
Terrific work
Also available in RAF markings, and an Air Min number. ;D
Which just happens to be '148'. ;)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/4274/OxNflv.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1762/JXFtNR.jpg)
Note the crudely painted out Luftwaffe crosses and swastikas, with whatever paint happened to be available at the time......
May I suggest a splotch on each side of the tail covering the hated swastika? You don't need to apply one, just a rough diamond shape covering up where it would have been.
I agree about the painted out swastika.
The plane looks fantastic, though. I couldn't figure out what the overall shape (without the props) reminded me of, until I saw a picture of the General Atomics MQ-1 Predator:
[(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/MQ-1_Predator%2C_armed_with_AGM-114_Hellfire_missiles.jpg/300px-MQ-1_Predator%2C_armed_with_AGM-114_Hellfire_missiles.jpg)
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Coming along nicely!
There IS a painted on swatch over the swastikas, but like all the other swatches it was done in a tearing hurry by the overworked guys building the RAF landing grounds in Normandy and it's not that complete. I'll do some detail pics when it's complete and you'll see then.
Looking good Kit :thumbsup:
"Splodges" or mottle is one of the very few things where having an airbrush might be useful.
Strangely enough I was looking for some info in a Bookazine this morning (Spitfires over Berlin) and they have a list of Air Ministry numbers in it, along with aircraft captured by the Brits and handed over to the US, 148 wasn't used, so your ok ;)
Thanks for confirming that Chris, I couldn't find Air Min 148 anywhere either. :thumbsup:
The 148's almost done. It's got its landing gear in place, minus the doors as yet, and the PROP BLADES are on! :thumbsup:
And yes, it looks totally nuts! ;D
I've matt varnished it all over, and that looks a lot better, and stripped off all the masking tabs so you can see into the cockpit now. That worked pretty well, and only a couple of very small bits of framing needed re-painting.
Should be done by tomorrow I think, fingers crossed.
It's done and dusted at last, all the fiddly bits are on and the detail painting is done. I'd forgotten how fragile the 141's landing gear was, the legs aren't the world's sturdiest for such a gawky landing gear, and one of the 148's has twisted a little. Nothing I can do about it bar replacing the whole leg, wheel and doors, and that's not going to happen after all this time.
I'd hoped the props would spin in opposite directions if i blew on them from the front, but there's too much friction between the two hubs for that to work sadly, but they do both rotate independently. I have an idea about freeing them off that I may try after a while.
I'm going to take some decent pics of the beast outside later in the day, it needs a suitable background really, and my maroon duvet cover doesn't really do it.
And here's what Dizzy calls 'the beauty shots' ;D although mine don't have his artistic backgrounds.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/512/poAYHV.jpg)
The overall view of T7+BV after capture by the airfield assembly teams in Normandy shortly after D-Day. Note the somewhat hastily applied roundels and the blanked out (as well as was possible) Luftwaffe markings.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6352/ewLv6C.jpg)
From the rear, showing the somewhat lethal remotely controlled Rheinmetall-Borsig HYL148V tail turret, as well as the centrally located Junkers 213 engine intake, and the twin contra-rotating props.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5427/gAJrNy.jpg)
A close up of the turret, and the twin tail of the 148, consisting of two tailplanes of the 141 joined together, plus twin larger vertical fins.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7591/Z6jlEC.jpg)
The other end, also showing the props and the cockpit area, complete with ex-Bv 141 ladder, and the crew surely needed the latter with such a nose-high position of the cockpit! Note the repeated Air Min code on the nose.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9708/GooSqL.jpg)
The aft fuselage is just a tube to position the tail unit and the turret really, and here you can see the blanked out Luftwaffe codes etc. plus the crude RAF roundels and Air Min code patch.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5298/288pJf.jpg)
An overall underside view, also showing lots of blanked out Luftwaffe codes etc. plus the Jumo 213's exhausts as well. Note the scabbed on radiators, from Me-109G production lines, added because the Jumo was liquid cooled, unlike the Bv 141's air cooled BMW 801 radial.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2883/ZmJhgD.jpg)
A close up of the central section, also showing the Jumo 213 installation and the somewhat gawky undercarriage. The camera ports forward of the prop hubs had to be PhotShopped for these pics as the Glue 'n Glaze still hadn't dried after FOUR hours!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6554/6fr2rx.jpg)
Lastly the cockpit itself, nicely masked with the extensive Eduard masking set, of which I only used half as I didn't use the aft section of the Bv 141 gondola. You can just see the internal details that I added, now almost invisible with all that framing of course. :(
There you have it, after a bit of a marathon build, and you may well ask why I wanted an extension as this was almost done. It was because my Speagle still isn't finished and I'm still waiting for a particular paint set for it. :(
There may be a backstory written for the 148 if my fingers (and keyboard....) manage to hold out. If so I'll link it from here.
Hmmm, it turns out I'd written the backstory ages ago and just filed it on my archive drive! :banghead:
I've posted it in 'Alternative History' as usual here :- https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=52072.new#new
Fantastically nuts! Love it!
That will sure get lots of questions when folks take a look at it. :thumbsup:
One of the most impressive realizations in the last years! And a really perverse idea! :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Come out well Kit :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
as smart looking as ever Kit :thumbsup:
Great looking plane The contra-rotating props are sexy...
Fantastic build :mellow: :mellow: :mellow: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Everything about this works, it is paper project real, dug out of some forgotten archive.
Really like this :wub:
Nicely done! :thumbsup:
Good job Kit.
:thumbsup:
I must say, it is an impressive build, Kit. Nearly as big as a Medium Bomber. :thumbsup:
Quote from: rickshaw on September 25, 2023, 05:55:06 AMI must say, it is an impressive build, Kit. Nearly as big as a Medium Bomber. :thumbsup:
I was surprised it came out so big myself, but that's because of an over-application of Kit's 1st Rule I suspect. ;D
I just used up all of the bits of two Bv 141 kits that I had, and then the fuselage had to be longer just to balance out the look of the thing.
It's good but I suspect that it would be underpowered for the size. The later Bv 148B with the Jumo 222E was better, but only flew as prototypes.
With 1700 bhp?
Of course the B's had a much fatter fuselage to take that monster of an engine. Hmmm, I've got a couple of them in a Huma Ju 288 kit, but I've not got enough Bv 141s left at the mo. ;D
The 2500hp Jumo 222 would just about fit in the fuselage as it wasn't much bigger than a 213. The Ju 288C had the DB 610, which being two DB605s welded together is much wider.
Impressive beast! :thumbsup:
And the view from the cockpit at ground must have been great, too! :lol:
Reminds me that I must do a cockpit-in-front-of-a-prop whif someday, too. :rolleyes:
Amazing build! Absoluty bonkers. That double prop is a very nice feature like that cockpit.
Congrats on finishing this project must have been a hairy one.
David aka 63cpe
Quote from: 63cpe on September 25, 2023, 11:04:42 PMCongrats on finishing this project must have been a hairy one.
Thanks everyone, much appreciated.
It still is 'hairy' Dave, because the whole fuselage forward of the props is suspended on the thick-ish plastic rod that runs inside the prop hubs, and it's fastened to the rest of the aeroplane just aft of the wing's trailing edge! The nose bit bends a small amount if it's pushed, so I don't! :-\