First time posting a work in progress.
What-if:
The infamous The 1957 Defense White Paper put out by the UK Defence Minister stated that manned aircraft were obsolete with the future belonging to ballistic missiles. This had a chilling effect on the entire UK aircraft industry, and though hotly debated and fought against, the decree spelled the death knell for the GOR.339 program (the predecessor to the TSR.2 program). However, while ballistic missiles might be the future, the UK still had the immediate need for high-speed, low-level, nuclear capable strike and recon platform in the short term to replace the Canberra which was becoming increasingly vulnerable to Soviet SAM systems. It was also desirable to find a solution that could provide a balm of sorts to the UK aviation industry for what was going to be the inevitable shrinkage. So just as the US had selected the Canberra in the early 50's this time the UK looked to the US for an aircraft to fulfill this immediate need. By early 1960 the aircraft selected was the North American F-105D. The aircraft had been in USAF service for a few years by that point so was seen as an overall low risk solution. By 1961 a license production agreement was put in place with various UK industries for the production of the S.105 Thunderchief. Construction of the major fuselage components would be done by English Electric and Hawker Siddley while Vickers would be responsible for overall project management and final assembly. While the J57 J-75 engines would be licensed, built by Rolls Royce and the avionics systems would be a collaboration between North American, Marconi and EMI. In all 110 aircraft would to be produced however an inital 5 were taken directly from USAF inventory in order to establish an initail training program and weapons compatibility testing.
The avionics collaboration was especially important for the reconnaissance version of the aircraft. For this mission, instead of resuscitating the RF-105B prototype, a reconnaissance pod was developed that would fit into the bomb bay similar to that used by the RA-5C. However unlike the RA-5C this wasn't intended as a permanent conversion. Instead the pod was intended to be installed and de-installed as needed in the field with standard ground maintenance crew. This was accomplished by pre-wiring approximately a third of the fleet for the recce pod. In addition these aircraft were distinguishable by modifications done to the bomb bays and bomb bay doors to accomodate installation of the recce pod. These aircraft were designated S.105(R)
The kit:
The kit is the Monogram 1/72 F-105. I got this kit for $10 as part of a set of kits from a fellow. Wasn't really sure what to do with it as I already had a 105G in the stash. I plan alot of my builds based on interesting paint schemes and realized I didn't' have anything planned in standard RAF mid-70's winter camo and that's where the idea of a RAF F-105 derived aircraft came about. After a bit or research I came up with the idea of this as a TSR.2 alternative in this what-if scenario and that led to the idea of a RA-5C style recce version.
So this kit is very basic, but that's where some of its charm comes from. According to Scalemates this particular kit dates to somewhere around 1974, but the tooling go as far back as the late 50's :o . The more I work with it the more I really love this little kit. As you can see it's only 6 steps total but it actually has very nice raised surface details. However, that's about it when it comes to details. And though I intended to build this OOB, that didn't last past step 1 when I realized there was no cockpit to speak of, just some pilot molded into a seat. So I decided to scratch build the cockpit (first time trying that). Came out ok for a closed canopy build. The next step is the recce canoe. Lots of trial and error and prototyping not just for the canoe but also for how best to make the camera windows. I think I'm close to a solution on that one, hopefully in the next week or so.
Looking forward to seeing your version of the F-105, a few of us here have done RAF versions with differing back stories. Here's mine I did a few years ago.
Yep, I've got an RAF Thud on the to-do list but with a very different back story and spec.
Point of order: production F-105s used the J-75 engine, not the J-57. The latter was only used on some early prototypes.
In the real world, Republic sent an unsolicted proposal to the RAF for a British F-105 powered by an afterburning development of the Rolls Royce Conway, this engine being chosen due to its better fuel economy, being a low-bypass turbofan rather than a turbojet. It fell short of GOR.339 (TSR.2) though, so the RAF ignored it.
Quote from: Weaver on January 08, 2024, 07:41:06 PMIn the real world, Republic sent an unsolicted proposal to the RAF for a British F-105 powered by an afterburning development of the Rolls Royce Conway, this engine being chosen due to its better fuel economy, being a low-bypass turbofan rather than a turbojet. It fell short of GOR.339 (TSR.2) though, so the RAF ignored it.
Apparently it was looked at twice by the RAF....according to Damien Burke's book
Quote from: Weaver on January 08, 2024, 07:41:06 PMYep, I've got an RAF Thud on the to-do list but with a very different back story and spec.
Ditto, waiting for the 1960s GB.
Quote from: chrisonord on January 08, 2024, 02:22:58 PMLooking forward to seeing your version of the F-105, a few of us here have done RAF versions with differing back stories. Here's mine I did a few years ago.
Nice looking build. Really like the paint work.
Quote from: Weaver on January 08, 2024, 07:41:06 PMYep, I've got an RAF Thud on the to-do list but with a very different back story and spec.
Point of order: production F-105s used the J-75 engine, not the J-57. The latter was only used on some early prototypes.
In the real world, Republic sent an unsolicted proposal to the RAF for a British F-105 powered by an afterburning development of the Rolls Royce Conway, this engine being chosen due to its better fuel economy, being a low-bypass turbofan rather than a turbojet. It fell short of GOR.339 (TSR.2) though, so the RAF ignored it.
There seems like there are a couple of significant points in avaition history that have so many potential what-if scenarios and the whole turmoill from that '57 white paper is one. Whenever I have a kit I don't have a clear plan for it's fun to look at points like that and see where the kit could fit in.
BTW Not sure if I was confused or dyslectic on the engine but corrected it. Thanks :thumbsup:
Quote from: HarryPhishnuts on January 09, 2024, 06:35:20 AMQuote from: Weaver on January 08, 2024, 07:41:06 PMYep, I've got an RAF Thud on the to-do list but with a very different back story and spec.
Point of order: production F-105s used the J-75 engine, not the J-57. The latter was only used on some early prototypes.
In the real world, Republic sent an unsolicted proposal to the RAF for a British F-105 powered by an afterburning development of the Rolls Royce Conway, this engine being chosen due to its better fuel economy, being a low-bypass turbofan rather than a turbojet. It fell short of GOR.339 (TSR.2) though, so the RAF ignored it.
There seems like there are a couple of significant points in avaition history that have so many potential what-if scenarios and the whole turmoill from that '57 white paper is one. Whenever I have a kit I don't have a clear plan for it's fun to look at points like that and see where the kit could fit in.
BTW Not sure if I was confused or dyslectic on the engine but corrected it. Thanks :thumbsup:
There's loads of those points: the harder you look, the more you see.
I've got a whole backstory planned out where the UK gets a reality check in 1946 instead of 1956 (Suez) and starts to cut its sails to suit its cloth earlier, with mixed and "interesting" results.
Got another one in which a late-wa,r tech-led German push-back results in the Soviets being hit harder and pushed back further than the allies, the war finally being ended by the atom bombing of Berlin. The post-war settlement therefore includes a string of treaty-bound neutral countries between the Warsaw Pact and NATO who have to either make their own kit (often from left-over German facilities) or buy what they're allowed to in a carefully balanced way from East and West.
Quote from: Weaver on January 09, 2024, 07:07:50 AM..or buy what they're allowed to in a carefully balanced way from East and West.
Wohoo! SAAB galore!! ;D
Quote from: Pellson on January 09, 2024, 07:36:08 AMQuote from: Weaver on January 09, 2024, 07:07:50 AM..or buy what they're allowed to in a carefully balanced way from East and West.
Wohoo! SAAB galore!! ;D
Yep - and it's a two-way (well, multi-way) street, of course. ;)
I've always liked the Monogram F-105. The cockpit is a little sparse but pretty good for its day. One of the few F-105s that had the exhaust petal hanging down when parked. I've got a two seater in the stash.
Quote from: kerick on January 09, 2024, 08:37:45 AMI've always liked the Monogram F-105. The cockpit is a little sparse but pretty good for its day. One of the few F-105s that had the exhaust petal hanging down when parked. I've got a two seater in the stash.
As I said it's actually a nice little kit. It's clear that it was made for young kids or to built more as a toy. I've debated with myself how much to "un-toy" it just because that's part of the charm of it. The only reason I decided to scratch build a cockpit was I'm lousey at trying to paint figures ;)
Quote from: kerick on January 09, 2024, 08:37:45 AMI've always liked the Monogram F-105. The cockpit is a little sparse but pretty good for its day. One of the few F-105s that had the exhaust petal hanging down when parked. I've got a two seater in the stash.
Agree. At least in God's own scale, and exterior wise, I find it superior to the Trumpeter kit.
Quote from: Pellson on January 09, 2024, 10:10:50 AMQuote from: kerick on January 09, 2024, 08:37:45 AMI've always liked the Monogram F-105. The cockpit is a little sparse but pretty good for its day. One of the few F-105s that had the exhaust petal hanging down when parked. I've got a two seater in the stash.
Agree. At least in God's own scale, and exterior wise, I find it superior to the Trumpeter kit.
I've got Monogram and Trumpeter -Gs in the stash, although if my RAF -K ever gets build, it will definitely be built from the Monogram one, due to the parts breakdown (separate ECM fairings).
Quote from: Weaver on January 09, 2024, 10:13:07 AMI've got Monogram and Trumpeter -Gs in the stash, although if my RAF -K ever gets build, it will definitely be built from the Monogram one, due to the parts breakdown (separate ECM fairings).
Yep, that's my favourite quality of that kit too.
My backstory for several what-ifs goes something like this. "Oh no! Our Valiant's are broken and we have nothing to use to maintain our commitment to SACEUR".
I think I used this backstory for the F-105K, the Grumman Intruder, an earlier adoption of the Blackburn Buccaneer and re-starting Canberra production! All in anti-flash white of course.
I've done a pair of 1/48 RAF Thuds, one in early scheme, one in later....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49878815382_ea85edd24f_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iZBY4y)
Quote from: SPINNERS on January 09, 2024, 10:53:05 AMMy backstory for several what-ifs goes something like this. "Oh no! Our Valiant's are broken and we have nothing to use to maintain our commitment to SACEUR".
I think I used this backstory for the F-105K, the Grumman Intruder, an earlier adoption of the Blackburn Buccaneer and re-starting Canberra production! All in anti-flash white of course.
There's a couple of turning points in aviation history that I look at for planning my current slate of what-if just because the downstream effects are so intersting. One is around the TSR.2 both if cancelled and what if it wasn't (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=52356.msg1023655#msg1023655). The other is the result of the LWF competition. So many variations so many kits, so little time. ;D
Quote from: Devilfish on January 09, 2024, 01:06:27 PMI've done a pair of 1/48 RAF Thuds, one in early scheme, one in later....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49878815382_ea85edd24f_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iZBY4y)
Those are great builds. :thumbsup:
Quote from: HarryPhishnuts on January 09, 2024, 01:31:17 PMQuote from: SPINNERS on January 09, 2024, 10:53:05 AMMy backstory for several what-ifs goes something like this. "Oh no! Our Valiant's are broken and we have nothing to use to maintain our commitment to SACEUR".
I think I used this backstory for the F-105K, the Grumman Intruder, an earlier adoption of the Blackburn Buccaneer and re-starting Canberra production! All in anti-flash white of course.
There's a couple of turning points in aviation history that I look at for planning my current slate of what-if just because the downstream effects are so intersting. One is around the TSR.2 both if cancelled and what if it wasn't (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=52356.msg1023655#msg1023655). The other is the result of the LWF competition. So many variations so many kits, so little time. ;D
The January Issue of Aeroplane magazine has a series of features called collectively "1964: Year Zero" studying RAF planning and government decision making at that ime and the consequences of it.
Finally got the recee pod canoe figured out and in place. That turned into one of those R&D rabbit holes on how to get the shape and installation right but I learned a lot so that's always worth it. Between that and the cockpit I'm definiteluy feeling more confident with building these types of mods. Ended up building it out of .5mm plasticard sheet and then cutting a hole in the bomb bay. Needs a bit of filling and sanding around the edges and I'll have to try and rescribe some of the rivet detail. Also going to add some additional surface elements with plasticard and scribing. As long as I don't go down any more modding rabbit holes should have everything built and primed by the end of the week. For stores its going to have 2 drop tanks on the inner pylons and then an ALQ119 ( I don't have a DASH-10/101 in the parts box) and an AIM-9D on the outers. I think for mid-to-late 70's that should be close to correct. I also got a Xtra decal set for a Buccaneer once I get to that stage. Still hoping to have it done by the end of the month.
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
So I got the primer on this weekend and marked up for camo. I'm doing an Arctic camo. Dr MIG has an excelent build on YouTybe of a Jaguar in Arctic camo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIxOhadPNCo IMG_1750.jpgso going to use that as a guide. However I'm trying to figure out the right shade of grey to use. The Buccaneer decals I'm going to use say it's BS381C:638 Dark Sea Grey and I have Vallejo Air 71.053 which is their Dark Sea Grey. It looks about right for 60's to early 70's aircraft but looking a photos (and DevilFish's excelent examples) it looks like sometime in the mid 70's it changed to a lighter grey? I haven't been able to find any kind of BSC color callout other than 638. If I can't find anything I'll just take a swag at it this weekend. Gotta say really impressed with how well this little kit has come together so far.
Looking good ! Always loved this machine. Beast !
So camo done, first time doing hard edge with blue tac. Overall pretty happy with it, just needed a few touch-ups. Now I just need to gloss coat and hopefully have some time for decals and weathering tomorrow.
That's looking cool! I'll be sure to keep track of this one.
Quote from: HarryPhishnuts on January 18, 2024, 12:09:44 PMSo I got the primer on this weekend and marked up for camo. I'm doing an Arctic camo. Dr MIG has an excelent build on YouTybe of a Jaguar in Arctic camo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIxOhadPNCo IMG_1750.jpgso going to use that as a guide. However I'm trying to figure out the right shade of grey to use. The Buccaneer decals I'm going to use say it's BS381C:638 Dark Sea Grey and I have Vallejo Air 71.053 which is their Dark Sea Grey. It looks about right for 60's to early 70's aircraft but looking a photos (and DevilFish's excelent examples) it looks like sometime in the mid 70's it changed to a lighter grey? I haven't been able to find any kind of BSC color callout other than 638. If I can't find anything I'll just take a swag at it this weekend. Gotta say really impressed with how well this little kit has come together so far.
The earlier version of mine was painted using (iirc) Vallejo colours, whereas the latter one was Tamiya DCG and Mr Hobby DG
Oh yeah. Very nice indeed !
Calling this one done. Overall pretty happy with the way it turned out. For the level of detail of the old model I think it built out pretty well. I used an Xtradecals set for the RAF S.2 Buccanneer and they went on no problem. Pulled the ECM pod and AIM9 from the stash. As I mentioned before the recce pod was made out of .5mm card and the windows for the recce pod were just transparency sheet that I sprayed with Vallejo Black Mettalic and then glued shiny side out. I think it at least looks close to what I've seen on pictues of planes like RF-4C and RF-8s. The chipping is supposed to depict the whitewash wearing off and revealing the dark green underneath, though to be honest chipping is still a skill I've got to work on. The other weathering was just panel wash with Vallejo Gray wash and then used watercolor pencils for the oil and grime streaking on the undersurfaces. As usual took a bit longer than expected but really enjoyed this little kit.
That looks very good, nice work! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Oh yeah, I like that! :thumbsup:
I can just see a couple of them howling over Donna Nook ranges at about 50 ft lobbing out 1000 lbers like they're sewing seeds! ;D
A thud by any other name still means cool 😎
I'm still trying to get my hands on a F-100 super Sabre for a project...like this finding one is a nightmare in 48th .
That's come out really well :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I like that!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
That's a beauty :mellow: :mellow: :mellow: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
That looks great - well done! :thumbsup:
Wrong scale ;) but the finished product looks good! :thumbsup: