It's all Chrisonord's fault. ;D
He wanted some decals for his A-4 tanker and I suggested the ones that 800B NAS used on their Supermarine Scimitar tankers, used to top-up the woefully underpowered Buccaneer S1s. It so happens that the Skybirds86 Scimitar kit comes with those decals and I offered to scan and print some for him as I had 2-3 of those Scimitar kits.
That got me thinking about how I could Whifftikate a Scimitar, and with my brain-set an RAF one with longer wings fitted the bill. The RAF wouldn't need folding wings, they've got OODLES of runway length to play with, and who'd want to use that complicated flap blowing system when you could just lengthen the wings and have the same lift?
So this is the Supermarine Scimitar FB2, flown by the RAF in a 'tactical nuclear deterrent' role during the Cold War, the Scimitar having already been cleared to carry the Red Beard weapon by the FAA of course.
Here's the mandatory 'before I start' pic of the kit box, such as it is. As with almost all Skybirds boxes they're not large enough to contain all the kit parts once you've opened them the first time. This goes for their MB5, the Scimitar, and the Hornets, every one's the same, bursting at the seams once it's been opened. :(
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7840/Q5AWCL.jpg)
Great use for this sort of kit.
Dual seat as well ?
It will be fun building that cockpit. I can't imagine the kit includes very much. Interesting idea.
Oooer, missus!
I've got something similar for this GB that I plan to post over the weekend.
Quote from: kerick on March 15, 2024, 04:34:19 PMIt will be fun building that cockpit. I can't imagine the kit includes very much. Interesting idea.
Oh it does, Skybirds were very early in the multi-media game and it has styrene, PE and white metal stuff included, the cockpit's pretty comprehensive. And the engineering of the kit is world class, you're warned NOT to put the main landing gear in place before it's painted and detailed as you'll never get it off again, and that's without glue!
Quote from: buzzbomb on March 15, 2024, 04:14:40 PMDual seat as well ?
I was wondering about that, but finding a suitable canopy could be a pain, and extending the nose could be REALLY difficult too. The FAA seemed to have got past the 'dual key' system with their planned use of Red Beards on their Scimitars, so maybe the RAF could piggy-back on that system too?
A de-navalised type 525, the 526, had been offered to the RAF. Say that got all of the other airframe mods?
As for a two seater, there were plans for a two seat version of at least one of Scimitar's predecessors, although I forget which one. The drawings are in Teach for the Sky. As for a possible canopy? Fouga Magister or L29 Delphin?
I'm thinking this is one of those kits with a hell of alot of not much . ;D
Two seater would be cool to see but like you said, a lot of extra work. I think I would stick with the single seat.
There was also a side-by-side two-seat Scimitar offered to the RN as an all-weather fighter with AI.23 and Red Tops.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on March 15, 2024, 04:58:43 PMAs for a two seater, there were plans for a two seat version of at least one of Scimitar's predecessors, although I forget which one. The drawings are in Teach for the Sky. As for a possible canopy? Fouga Magister or L29 Delphin?
I've seen that drawing too, their original 2-seat canopy was a bit like the Attacker and Swift 2-seaters, hardly surprising of course. But they're a bit too heavily framed to my mind, the Scimitar's canopy sits like a big 'bubble' on that snub nose, and a 2-seat version should be equally 'bubble like' to my mind.
Having said all that, I realise I have form in doing 2-seaters out of single seaters so I ought be be able to come up with SOMEthing. ;D
Tandem 2-seat Hunter canopy perhaps? Possibly a tad too narrow.
Buccaneer canopy? I think I have a van form one going spare that you could have.
The wings from the Heller Mirage IVP model fit rather well.
Quote from: kitbasher on March 16, 2024, 12:55:54 AMTandem 2-seat Hunter canopy perhaps? Possibly a tad too narrow.
Buccaneer canopy? I think I have a van form one going spare that you could have.
I agree Dave, and too low as well perhaps?
I may take you up on that Bucc canopy, thanks. I hadn't considered that one. :banghead:
Why bother with an extended canopy for the rear seater ? After all he's probably only an NCO, not commissioned and one of "Us" plus the dark will help him concentrate on his poorly illuminated screens ;)
Semi serious suggestion, just put a fuselage "plug" in behind the existing canopy ?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 16, 2024, 01:37:15 AMBuccaneer canopy? I think I have a van form one going spare that you could have.
I agree Dave, and too low as well perhaps?
I may take you up on that Bucc canopy, thanks. I hadn't considered that one. :banghead:
[/quote]
Will have a rummage tomorrow, Kit (out and about today) and will PM with the results.
And I may have a Red Beard somewhere.
Well yes, why not? That's pretty well what the FAA did for the poor 'Observer' in the Sea Vixens, and the RAF themselves did it for the Nav in almost all Canberra variants.
I'll give the idea some thought, thanks Chris. :thumbsup:
In the meanwhile here's the kit contents, all in flimsy plastic bags, one full of strangely shaped small styrene parts (Mike Eacock, who made the Skybirsds86 kits, only had a small IJ machine so the parts had to be small..........) a couple of bags of white metal parts, one of PE, one of smaller styrene bits, FOUR sheets of decals, albeit small ones, and SIX pages of instructions! Well, paperwork anyway..........
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6832/Bt1RWV.jpg)
Thanks Dave, I have a couple of 'standard' Red Beards en route already actually, and a supersonic version 'in hand', as well as a Mk 7 too!
I'm almost an independent nuclear power in my own right! :o
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 16, 2024, 01:39:13 AMWhy bother with an extended canopy for the rear seater ? After all he's probably only an NCO, not commissioned and one of "Us" plus the dark will help him concentrate on his poorly illuminated screens ;)
Semi serious suggestion, just put a fuselage "plug" in behind the existing canopy ?
Makes me think that perhaps a Javelin canopy if the GIB doesn't need his head too high.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 15, 2024, 04:10:56 PMAs with almost all Skybirds boxes they're not large enough to contain all the kit parts once you've opened them the first time. This goes for their MB5, the Scimitar, and the Hornets, every one's the same, bursting at the seams once it's been opened. :(
My boxing of the same kit is exactly the same. Open the box and not only can't you get all the bits back in, the box falls to bits as well!
Not sure how well the "plastic" glues together for a fuselage extension. If I was to do something like that I would use the Xtrakit version, Ideal for chop and shunt work seeing how accurate it is.
Gondor
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 16, 2024, 01:39:13 AMWhy bother with an extended canopy for the rear seater ? After all he's probably only an NCO, not commissioned and one of "Us" plus the dark will help him concentrate on his poorly illuminated screens ;)
Semi serious suggestion, just put a fuselage "plug" in behind the existing canopy ?
Another "coal hole"?
Construction's proceeding apace on the Scimitar.
The Skybird86 styrene feels like concrete as it's so brittle, but it files and sands superbly. They recommend removing material to get the parts to fit rather than using filler later on, and I'd agree but you need a large flat second cut file for the job, there's LOTS of filing in store.
Here's the three wing parts glued up, two upper halves and a lower section that spans the fuselage and bridges the two outer wing parts.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/1685/OU0oYL.jpg)
It looks a little agricultural compared with modern day kits, but it's finely engineered and all the joint lines align perfectly once you've filed the rough edges off properly. Adding the lower fuselage half needs more precise filing, mainly on the front and rear edges of the wing recess marked below.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4170/Z8SylC.jpg)
You need to ensure you know which fuselage half is which as they look remarkably similar, but the upper half is thinner and it has bits of the spine on it as well. Which brings me to the next point. There are two recesses cut into the spine, marked with red arrows below, one of which needs cutting out as it's flashed over quite heavily, and you're meant to glue two white metal castings in there to make up the air-con intake and an aerial section. Sadly my kit has neither of them included, and it's a bit tale to claim under warranty as Mike closed the firm down aeons ago now.
No matter, this is an RAF FB2, not an FAA F1 so the intake and the aerials could well look totally different, nothing that a little scratching and backstory modification won't take care of anyway. ;D
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1350/7D8FF2.jpg)
Again, you'll need to file the upper surfaces of the wing mount to ensure it fits nicely, but that's par for the course for this kit.
My confidence in a) Skybirds and b) this country's kit reviewers has been badly shaken!
I've assembled the nose and tail sections after much filing to remove the flash etc. and they both went together quite well. The nose section has to be left for a while as the cockpit assembly is inserted into it from the rear so it's no good gluing it in place yet, but the tail could be glued on. I needed to file the two extension pieces that protrude from the centre section quite a bit before it would slide on nicely, and it looks pretty good from above.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3958/3eRxNS.jpg)
But from below.....................
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9679/JhC1VF.jpg)
Something SERIOUSLY wrong there! I either need to file the extension down a lot and add packing and lots of PSR to sort it, or pack up the rear fuselage section but it'll need some checks of the drawings to find the correct shape.
It doesn't say much for my own belief in Skybird's accuracy, but how can something THAT bad get past the umpteen people who've 'reviewed' this kit in the past???? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
From that last pic Kit ..the underside has a F4 Phantom look about it 😳 :unsure:
Quote from: Wardukw on March 16, 2024, 11:38:24 AMFrom that last pic Kit ..the underside has a F4 Phantom look about it 😳 :unsure:
It does a bit, doesn't it?
But the Scimitar's exhausts come out of the sides of the fuselage. The kit has a couple of SOCKING great white metal castings that fit into the big slots in the sides of the tail mouldings. They'll be fitted in later on in the build.
After studying the drawings I'll have to add packing either side of the lower extension, and do LOTS of PSR later on of course.
Plus I think I've sorted the nose extension, so long as the Nav is buried under a hatch like the Sea Vixen's.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 16, 2024, 11:55:32 AMQuote from: Wardukw on March 16, 2024, 11:38:24 AMFrom that last pic Kit ..the underside has a F4 Phantom look about it 😳 :unsure:
It does a bit, doesn't it?
But the Scimitar's exhausts come out of the sides of the fuselage. The kit has a couple of SOCKING great white metal castings that fit into the big slots in the sides of the tail mouldings. They'll be fitted in later on in the build.
After studying the drawings I'll have to add packing either side of the lower extension, and do LOTS of PSR later on of course.
Plus I think I've sorted the nose extension, so long as the Nav is buried under a hatch like the Sea Vixen's.
Looking at the side profile of that and imaging an extended nose I am wondering what or how a F-4 canopy would look 🤔
It's low at the back without being to high at the front .
Yeah, it might work quite well.
At the moment I'm still thinking of 'burying' the Nav behind the pilot, if only so I don't have to make a new cockpit and find another ejection seat, but I'll see how that goes.
I've got the first of the two exhausts in position, and it's a HEFTY casting, but amazingly it still won't be a tail sitter, even with both exhausts in place!
I did Mr Eacock wrong about the missing spine parts for the Scimitar. I was looking for some plastic bits, but it turns out they're white metal and just looked like two slabs of it, maybe 3 mm x 5 mm. :banghead:
They took some filing to get into shape to fit, and they're so small I couldn't hold them very well either, so had to use flat jawed pliers, but even they marked the surface of the white metal. :(
They're glued in place now though, and will need some PSR, along with the rest of the model, and you can see the result below.
I also had a brain wave about the 2 seat cockpit, as I just happen to have one of Colin Freightdog's excellent tandem 2-seat Hunter conversions with me (as you do..... ;D ) and it comes with TWO canopies! ;D
So I eased the Scimitar's cockpit section forward about 6 mm, leaving a small gap behind it that can be filled with some scrap styrene, and then perched the Hunter canopy on top.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2994/c3lXow.jpg)
With a suitable fairing astern of it, and a 2nd bang seat in the newly carved cockpit well underneath it, I reckon that should work quite well.
What does anyone else think?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 17, 2024, 11:59:45 AMWith a suitable fairing astern of it, and a 2nd bang seat in the newly carved cockpit well underneath it, I reckon that should work quite well.
What does anyone else think?
Looks really good to me. With the slight angle downwards towards the nose the GIB won't get covered in coal dust! :thumbsup:
Gondor
:thumbsup:
Anyone built the Xtrakit Scimitar?
Quote from: kitbasher on March 18, 2024, 01:16:37 AMAnyone built the Xtrakit Scimitar?
I was going to buy one, to 'save' my Skybirds kit for posterity, and then found the Xtrakit ones go for STUPID money on ebay! The Skybirds ones are ASTRONOMOCAL though! :o
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 18, 2024, 04:15:17 AMQuote from: kitbasher on March 18, 2024, 01:16:37 AMAnyone built the Xtrakit Scimitar?
I was going to buy one, to 'save' my Skybirds kit for posterity, and then found the Xtrakit ones go for STUPID money on ebay! The Skybirds ones are ASTRONOMOCAL though! :o
Said it before, sayin' it again: Airfix, it's long overdue... :angry:
Quote from: The Rat on March 18, 2024, 05:26:30 AMQuote from: PR19_Kit on March 18, 2024, 04:15:17 AMI was going to buy one, to 'save' my Skybirds kit for posterity, and then found the Xtrakit ones go for STUPID money on ebay! The Skybirds ones are ASTRONOMOCAL though! :o
Said it before, sayin' it again: Airfix, it's long overdue... :angry:
Agreed!
Gondor
The die is cast on the FB2's cockpit configuration now, It's going to be a tandem 2-seater with the nose extended about a scale 3 feet to make room for the Wizzo and his techie gear. The extra droopiness of the nose is just not quite noticeable and it should fair into the fuselage quite nicely after a bit scratching and a LOT of PSR of course. I've not decided to fair the canopy into the spine, like a Hunter, yet or leave it with the itty-bitty intake half way along the spine.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6529/tdFzWY.jpg)
The front seat's already glued in place, but the Wizzo's seat, one from my Frieghtdog tandem 2-seat Hunter conversion, is only 'gravity located' at present.
The cockpit assembly has been a real PITA so far, the various casted and etched bits just DON'T fit. The PE panel is far too wide for neither the styrene nose nor the cast cockpit tub, the seat needed to be heavily filed to fit into the tub and then filed some more so as not to foul the canopy, which is higher than the pukka Scimitar F1 canopy!
The instruction diagrams male no sense at all, and the instructions don't even mention the seat anywhere! The airbrake PE set is maybe 2/3 of the size it should be, and no way will it fit the recesses just forward of the exhausts, so I think the FB2 will have a totally different airbrake arrangement.
Quite how this kit got such rave reviews back in the day I have NO idea, I can only assume none of the 'reviewers' actually built the kit!
Well, at least it won't be a tail sitter with all that metal!
I think this will shape up to look very cool. Lots of work but it will be worth it. You do have the wings to look forward too.....
Quote from: kerick on March 18, 2024, 02:05:45 PMWell, at least it won't be a tail sitter with all that metal!
THAT'S for sure! I was worried that it might be with the hefty exhaust castings aft of the main wheels, but it never showed a hint of being one. The styrene is pretty thick too so the overall weight of the model is remarkable. OGL may have to beef up the SIG's mezzanine floor for the next show. ;D
I was taking a third look at the last pic and I thought the Heller two seat Harrier canopy might have worked but no cockpit interior is included so you would still need to build that. Better off this way.
Quote from: kerick on March 18, 2024, 02:23:40 PMI was taking a third look at the last pic and I thought the Heller two seat Harrier canopy might have worked but no cockpit interior is included so you would still need to build that. Better off this way.
Yes, that canopy may well suit, but while I have a couple of those Bobcat kits in The Loft, I'm 120 miles away from it at present, and I DO have the tandem 2 seat Hunter kit with me, as luck would have it. ;D
I'll be scratching up a back seat panel and side consoles later today, and blanking off the big hole at the back too.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 18, 2024, 01:17:48 PMThe die is cast on the FB2's cockpit configuration now, It's going to be a tandem 2-seater with the nose extended about a scale 3 feet to make room for the Wizzo and his techie gear. The extra droopiness of the nose is just not quite noticeable and it should fair into the fuselage quite nicely after a bit scratching and a LOT of PSR of course. I've not decided to fair the canopy into the spine, like a Hunter, yet or leave it with the itty-bitty intake half way along the spine.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6529/tdFzWY.jpg)
The front seat's already glued in place, but the Wizzo's seat, one from my Frieghtdog tandem 2-seat Hunter conversion, is only 'gravity located' at present.
The cockpit assembly has been a real PITA so far, the various casted and etched bits just DON'T fit. The PE panel is far too wide for neither the styrene nose nor the cast cockpit tub, the seat needed to be heavily filed to fit into the tub and then filed some more so as not to foul the canopy, which is higher than the pukka Scimitar F1 canopy!
The instruction diagrams male no sense at all, and the instructions don't even mention the seat anywhere! The airbrake PE set is maybe 2/3 of the size it should be, and no way will it fit the recesses just forward of the exhausts, so I think the FB2 will have a totally different airbrake arrangement.
Quite how this kit got such rave reviews back in the day I have NO idea, I can only assume none of the 'reviewers' actually built the kit!
Quite how this
A very large proportion of "reviews" in the heyday of print and into the current age are best described as "in box", or as is the current rage on youtube "unboxings".
🙄
The honest reviewers always made it clear that they were just relating first impressions, but many others weren't so upfront. Of course, very often when there was a full build review done and the builder wrote up a true honest critique pointing out the bad with the good they got slated for being over critical. The common cry being that they were "too negative" and would somehow destroy the hobby and they then lumped any honest reviewers in with the nitpicking "rivet counters". A truly idiotic mindset.
I WAS a 'reviewer' in the 70s-80s, and always said it like it was, no matter what various magazine editors said.
My comments after building the M'Box F-104 Starfighter were the reason I now build Whiffs almost entirely, as the late Ron Moulton, then the editor of Scale Models Magazine, said I'd have to give it some positive points, and I said there weren't any (!) so that review never did get printed.
I converted the F-104 into an RAF Starfighter F3, my first ever Whiff, and the rest is history etc. ;D
Editors were always sensitive about their advertising revenue, sometimes over sensitive..................
I've filled in the panels under the exhausts with carefully cut styrene blanks, and there'll be LOTS of PSR later on I can assure you! The RAF Scimitars retained the arrestor hook, but only for use with runway arrestors systems as they had no folding wings, thus the hook is just about visible right at the aft end of the fuselage.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6703/qgtRnV.jpg)
And now I've done the majority of the PSR too, or the 'P' bit of it anyway! For some reason this kit has quite a few extra 'lumps and bumps' on the wings and fuselage that don't seem to be there in the many pics I've seen, now that I have a good book on the aircraft.
They've now gone, thanks to the file and wet & dry paper.....
The cockpit's finished having its greeblies added now and is ready for some paint.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9537/dQqtuf.jpg)
You may also notice evidence of a considerable amount of PSR work too, and I've spent AGES lashing on tons of putty and sanding it off again. Not just the bits in this pic but pretty much all over the airframe. A big pity as all the fine panel lines are destined to be sanded off, and I'm really not in the mood to scribe them all back on again. I may do some, but not all of them
The interminable PSR goes on and on and ON with the Scimitar FB2! I think I'm on the 4th or 5th session by now, and soon it won't have ANY panel lines left at all.
The worst bit of the PSR is sanding the wing roots in the area ruled 'waist'. Trying to get rid of excess putty deep in the root needs a file rather than wet & dry!
It's looking a bit more as it should do now though, which is positive.
The Scimitar FB2's airframe is pretty well complete now, all of the main bits anyway.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7220/terDiJ.jpg)
The extensions for the wing are in place with the tips sawn down and fitted as well, but will need substantial filing and PSR later of course. That's if they actually dry out properly............
So far the styrene tip extensions have snapped off twice on each side and I'm starting to think that they need supergluing really. The very ancient Skybirds plastic does not glue well to more modern styrene, at least using my standard Revell Contacta Pro and De Luxe Plastic Magic mixture. I recall I had the same problem when I built the MB5 PR3 from one of their first kits, neither the extended wing tips nor the belly intake wanted to stay attached to the airframe. :(
Trying to get the tailplane and fin in place was a PITA too, the tailplane being about 2 x too thick to fit in the gap allowed, and needed a LOT of heavy duty filing to thin it down enough to fit.
But it's all together now hopefully, and I can think about the weapons load and the landing gear next. Or maybe some paint, who knows?
When I did built the MB5 PR3 in 2017 I said '....The Scimitar would seem to be a much more complex task though.............. :-\)
Was I ever right! :o
Looking good kit. :thumbsup:
Wing extensions, who would have thought...... :rolleyes:
Gondor
Quote from: Gondor on March 25, 2024, 02:03:44 PMWing extensions, who would have thought...... :rolleyes:
Yeah, I know. A bit of a change for me, eh? ;D
At LAST it would seem the interminable PSR on the Scimitar FB2 is done, thank goodness. ;D
Goodness knows how many sessions I've had on this, well into double figures for sure. But now I can get on with getting the canopy to fit, which will take a bit of 'adjusting', and can build the rest of it, mainly the landing gear and weapon load.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9139/ZhUbz5.jpg)
Then I might, maybe, re-scribe some of the more obvious panel lines that I've just spent days sanding off...............
Wrap around grey and green camo?
Something like that, think Canberra B(I)8 but shorter............
Really nice work
Looking good Kit, though I can't help but feel that pilot looks incredibly upright and exposed? Will probably look "better" with the canopy on however.
He's rid'n Harley style!
Yes, the pilot does sit higher than the Nav, but that's because of the shape of the canopy and the original cockpit position.
I had to lower the Nav's seat quite a bit so it didn't foul the canopy, but even so both the seats are VERY close to the roof!
I like that Kit ...she's got great lines and I can see a pretty good thing with the pilots seating position..great visibility..just like a F-15 ;D
Certainly come together Kit :thumbsup: Looks good in overall primer.
You should feel how much it WEIGHS! :o
I hope Skybirds white metal is pretty tough, it's going to need to be to support all that weight, and not a drop of added nose-weight needed either.
I'm not sure. The MB5 certainly collapses over time although my Hornet seems to be okay so far.
The legs on the Scimitar are all vertical, whereas all the legs on the MB5 are at an angle so they're in bending rather than compression. I'm reasonably hopeful.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 28, 2024, 06:59:06 AMThe legs on the Scimitar are all vertical, whereas all the legs on the MB5 are at an angle so they're in bending rather than compression. I'm reasonably hopeful.
Touch wood and say "hello Mr Magpie" next time you see one ;)
The RAF didn't like the Scimitar F1's air brakes, they were wrapped around the fuselage just aft of the wing and forward of the exhausts, and were in three parts, some with perforations and some without, to avoid too much pitch change when they were applied. The RAF's need for the airbrakes was so they could be at exactly the correct speed during the pitch-up manoeuvre for the LABS mission the FB2s were designed for, so a better solution was sought.
Having had similar pitch control problems with their Hunter interceptor, Hawker offered a solution in using their belly airbrake they'd developed for the Hunter, and Supermarine accepted their help readily. Thus the FB2s had a hefty 'barn door' type airbrake scabbed into the belly of the airframe in line with the positions of the original F1's airbrakes.
In the real world the PE airbrakes which come with the Skybirds kit seem to be 1/80 scale and are far too small to fit the recesses they're etched for , so out came the putty and 10-15 PSR sessions later there were no recesses! The Hunter type airbrake was the work of a moment with 3-4 pieces of styrene cut to size and then PSR'd to death. ;D
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5824/N8cPAP.jpg)
;D ;D
A feeling I'm getting Kit with the next idea I'm having :lol:
I've got back on the Scimitar as I realised the GB's end date was fast approaching. :(
It's had even more PSR and primer and I've painted the cockpit as far is it's going to be painted. I've tried fitting the canopy and it actually fits quite well, but NOT where I originally intended it to. ;D Spreading the base of the canopy a fraction enables it to sit down lower than the cockpit side rails and on top of the sides of the fuselage. That makes the windscreen fit a lot better, and while it may take a bit more work at the aft end, and make the fairing a little more difficult to look right, I think it's a better solution than my original idea.
So here's the Scimitar FB2 with a painted cockpit and the very last session of PSR. Yes, really.............
That's the US Mk 7 nuke hanging from its pylon in the foreground, and the less said about fitting the pylon to the wing, the better! :banghead:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3276/XtTDdS.jpg)
I take it that the pylon is being a bit of a Sus domesticus is it?
Gondor
Quote from: Gondor on May 14, 2024, 10:31:46 AMI take it that the pylon is being a bit of a Sus domesticus is it?
It's actually the wing that's the problem.
It has four 'bumps' on the underside which are meant to locate the pylons exactly, as they have recesses in their tops that should fit over the bumps. But the bumps are all too wide and need mucho filing to fit the pylons properly. :banghead:
Be in flying colours in no time
I wish..................
Keep it ! This will be great!
Now that we have an extension, or we MAY have an extension for the 60s GB anyway, I've got a fighting chance of finishing the Scimitar FB2.
I'm working on getting the canopy in place first, and the rear bulkhead for it is glued in position and painted now. I've also filed the rather irritating mounting stubs for the weapons pylons so they actually fit the pylons. Beforehand they were much too wide and pylons stood 1.5 mm clear of the lower wing surface! Quite why Skybirds didn't do it the conventional way, with holes in the wings and stubs on the pylons I'm not sure, but they didn't. :banghead:
The standard nuke fit at the time was either a Red Beard or a Mk 7 on the port pylon and a tank on the starboard one, so I'm going with that, plus I'm going to fit a 'winder on each outboard pylon as the FAA Scimitars seemed to carry them like that quite often. I also have a LOT of 'winders knocking about with no aircraft to defend as well!
The first colour coat is on the underside, Light Aircraft Grey of course, and a similar coat of Dark Sea Grey on much of the upper surfaces, just to see how it looks. It'll need further coats of course as I have yet to add some detail parts like the wing fences and the air data probe, but I'll have some idea how it's going to look when it's done.
Maybe some pics in a day or so.
Looking forward as always mare ;D
At long last the Scimitar has its canopy glued in place. The canopy is from Colin Frieghtdog's tandem 2-seat Hunter conversion so it wasn't an exact fit and I had to add some spacer strips and a bulkhead behind the Nav, but it looks OK now.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7640/3oRJUK.jpg)
I'm in the middle of adding the fairing aft of the canopy now, and that's a styrene multi-layer build and will need lots of PSR no doubt. :banghead:
Start with half a Hunter drop tank? You're halfway there.
I might be if I had one handy, but I'm 120 miles away from any that I have got. The Scimitar's tanks are too small in diameter, as well as being moulded in concrete as far as I can see. :(
After a short period of styrene laminating and a quadruple PSR session the aft cockpit fairing is pretty well sorted. I've masked up the canopy and re-primed the nose area, and it's not too bad. A few more PSR sessions will be required, but it's looking promising.
Not the most stylish shape, but good enough for Government work I think. ;D
This is quite a nice build. It's going to look good painted up!
I hope so. ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on May 28, 2024, 01:23:41 PMNot the most stylish shape, but good enough for Government work I think. ;D
Late 1940's, early 1950's design so that sounds about right.
Gondor
Here's an approximation of how the Scimitar FB2 will look when it's done. The first coat of the Hataka Dark Green is on, but it needs at least one more coat, maybe two.
I've also added the white metal air data probe and the IFR probe since I took this and they'll BOTH need some filing and PSR before they even start to look right. How come none of the 'kit reviewers' who praised this kit to the heights back then didn't spot these and other myriad problems at the time?
Answer, not ONE of them actually built the kit! Shame on them! :banghead:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/8171/yNztl1.jpg)
No, Mike definitely built it, as I remember his review in SAM.
Mike was a different kettle of fish, he REALLY did what he said.
Did he pick up on the crazy air brake frets? They're about 1/82 scale, not 1/72, there's NO way they'd fit in the recesses meant for them.
2nd coat of green is on now and it's looking much more acceptable. Plus I've painted the myriad white metal bits of the landing gear etc. What a fiddly job that was!
It's got wheels! ;D
But they're white metal ones. so I'm keeping an eye on the nosewheel especially in case it sags, as they're a bit prone to do sometimes.
The paint could be better, as I found every new layer I added was a lighter shade than one one before, from the SAME bottle. I'm not too happy about that, but naff all I can do about it anyway.
It looks like I may actually finish it in time now, after a marathon painting day y'day.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/1978/PIULoK.jpg)
That's the good thing about Acrylic paint, you can get several coats down in one day.
Gondor
I'd just prefer them to be the same colour...............
I've never noticed this with Hataka stuff before.
This is why I've stuck wi Xtracrylix for twenty years and not listened to the arsepieces lauding a different and new paint every other week.
After all the work so far bud she's looking pretty bloody good 👍
As for the paints playing up I have had that on the odd occasion with of all things Humbrol :o
Their whites and yellows were the main ones I remember.
And now it's got everything else added too, except the decals. The add-ons include that rather large bomb on the port inboard pylon, and it's a Mk 7 tactical nuke, designed to stop those pesky Ruskies crossing into W Germany.
I've also made one rather basic mistake, which you can't see in this pic, but it'll take some spotting on the SIG stand, I hope....
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7520/y03gXn.jpg)
The pitot on the port wing tips stand NO chance of lasting past Tuesday, it's been bent 10-15 times already, and with white metal that's fatal. I'll swap it for a brass one or a hypo needle maybe.
Oh she's packing one hell of a punch bud ..I like that ;D :thumbsup:
The backstory, once I've done it all, says the RAF used Scimitar FB2s in the same role as the W German based Canberra B(I)8s in the 60s. Same engines, same crew numbers, same weapons, but faster.
And I've found a magic scheme for one too, just like a 16 Sqdn. B(I)8. ;D
I've Kleared the FB2 now, and it's waiting for it's yet to be printed decals, plus two 'winders that should end up under the outer pylons, if I can find some with launchers anyway.
Sadly, and as predicted, the IFR probe didn't survive the trip home y'day and it snapped off. I'll try and replace it with some brass tube and the white metal tip of the original probe.
The backstory's complete now too.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on June 01, 2024, 01:58:32 PMI've also made one rather basic mistake, which you can't see in this pic, but it'll take some spotting on the SIG stand, I hope...
Ooh, a guessing game, eh? I'll have first crack - you can see straight through from front to back? ;D
No, you can't actually, it had carefully designed blanks provided fore and aft to prevent that.
An upside-down pylon under a wing?
Gondor
heading to a nice finish :thumbsup:
Quote from: Gondor on June 04, 2024, 12:06:11 AMAn upside-down pylon under a wing?
More fundamental than that I'm afraid. :(
Quote from: PR19_Kit on June 04, 2024, 09:22:23 AMQuote from: Gondor on June 04, 2024, 12:06:11 AMAn upside-down pylon under a wing?
More fundamental than that I'm afraid. :(
Oh. My. GOD! Did you install the rudder pedal tensioners with metric nuts instead of a Whitworth thread?! Quick, put a pilot in the cockpit, maybe his boots will hide it.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
But no....................
Left main gear on the right side and the right main gear on the left side?
Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt, wore it out, bought another. :banghead:
You didn't scribe the panel lines for the compartment the crew would use to stow away their overseas deployment expenses cash?
Quote from: kerick on June 04, 2024, 09:53:42 PMLeft main gear on the right side and the right main gear on the left side?
Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt, wore it out, bought another. :banghead:
You got it spot on!
And it's impossible to correct now that they're a) superglued in place and b) due to the design of the parts. Once they're in place they're there for good. :banghead:
So the wheels are inboard of the legs rather than outboard, and the outer doors won't fit, so I'm scratching some styrene ones that will. Luckily the wing mounted tank and that BIG bomb make good visual barriers to oberving my stupidity.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on June 05, 2024, 12:50:41 AMQuote from: kerick on June 04, 2024, 09:53:42 PMLeft main gear on the right side and the right main gear on the left side?
Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt, wore it out, bought another. :banghead:
You got it spot on!
And it's impossible to correct now that they're a) superglued in place and b) due to the design of the parts. Once they're in place they're there for good. :banghead:
So the wheels are inboard of the lags rather than outboard, and the outer doors won't fit, so I'm scratching some styrene ones that will. Luckily the wing mounted tank and that BIG bomb make good visual barriers to oberving my stupidity.
I have just looked at my Skybirds 86 Scimitar kit and I see what you mean. Oh well, Kit's Rule #2 comes into play I suppose.
Gondor
Makes it even more of a wiff now ..which is power for the course in wiffy building world ;D
Quote from: Gondor on June 05, 2024, 01:07:08 AMQuote from: PR19_Kit on June 05, 2024, 12:50:41 AMQuote from: kerick on June 04, 2024, 09:53:42 PMLeft main gear on the right side and the right main gear on the left side?
Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt, wore it out, bought another. :banghead:
You got it spot on!
And it's impossible to correct now that they're a) superglued in place and b) due to the design of the parts. Once they're in place they're there for good. :banghead:
So the wheels are inboard of the lags rather than outboard, and the outer doors won't fit, so I'm scratching some styrene ones that will. Luckily the wing mounted tank and that BIG bomb make good visual barriers to oberving my stupidity.
I have just looked at my Skybirds 86 Scimitar kit and I see what you mean. Oh well, Kit's Rule #2 comes into play I suppose.
Gondor
Apply one of my rules - If no-one ever sees it then it never happened.
Quote from: Wardukw on June 05, 2024, 02:31:04 AMMakes it even more of a wiff now ..which is power for the course in wiffy building world ;D
Yep, that'd work. ;D
Quote from: zenrat on June 05, 2024, 03:24:14 AMQuote from: Gondor on June 05, 2024, 01:07:08 AMQuote from: PR19_Kit on June 05, 2024, 12:50:41 AMQuote from: kerick on June 04, 2024, 09:53:42 PMLeft main gear on the right side and the right main gear on the left side?
Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt, wore it out, bought another. :banghead:
You got it spot on!
And it's impossible to correct now that they're a) superglued in place and b) due to the design of the parts. Once they're in place they're there for good. :banghead:
So the wheels are inboard of the lags rather than outboard, and the outer doors won't fit, so I'm scratching some styrene ones that will. Luckily the wing mounted tank and that BIG bomb make good visual barriers to oberving my stupidity.
I have just looked at my Skybirds 86 Scimitar kit and I see what you mean. Oh well, Kit's Rule #2 comes into play I suppose.
Gondor
Apply one of my rules - If no-one ever sees it then it never happened.
It just doesn't matter!!!! Bill Murray in some kids baseball movie.
Well, try as I might, I'm not going to get the FB2 done in time for tonight's deadline. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I spent much of y'day drawing up the decal sheet for it, and test fitting some paper samples to ensure they fit the FB2's curvy fuselage, but could I find the decal paper to print them off? Could I thump!!!!!!
I've searched and searched all over this chaotic house and I can't find the paper anywhere, darn it.
Hmm...I was convinced it ended next Friday. Ah well.....
Ah, I thought it ended midnight TONIGHT after the week extension, but it's midnight TOMORROW night!
There's still hope, not a lot, but a little.....................
Can only but try mate 👍
I FOUND THE DECAL PAPER! :thumbsup: ;D ;) :bow: :drink: :cheers: :party:
Naturally it's panic time now to try and finish the FB2 off before midnight. :o
Quote from: PR19_Kit on June 06, 2024, 11:39:59 PMI FOUND THE DECAL PAPER! :thumbsup: ;D ;) :bow: :drink: :cheers: :party:
Naturally it's panic time now to try and finish the FB2 off before midnight. :o
Best of speed and luck matey 👍 ;D
The decals are printed now, and had two coats of varnish applied, and they should be ready to apply in an hour or so.
I've scratched up a new IFR probe from some ali tube and glued it in place, with a teeny weeny touch of PSR as well, plus I've cut some styrene main gear doors which will fit the 'revised gear orientation required by the RAF'. ;)
[Kit's 2nd Law applies of course.]
And I've found a couple of 'winders and their launch rails, courtesy of an Italeri Harrier GR5 kit, and they've been assembled and primed by now too.
It's all happening here at Kit's Hangar!
No hanging around at Kits Hanger then :rolleyes:
Gondor
Hell no!
Decals are all on now, and varnished, new IFR probe is PSR'd and painted, some more trim painting has been carried out, and the 'winders are painted and awaiting assembly to the pylons.
But a couple of the decals have wrinkled and will need replacing, and the drop tank has done what it's designed for, dropped............. :-(
So that'll be glued back on the same time as the 'winders.
I may satin varnish it, but it could be left till after the pics I guess.
Carry on!! Its to good to stop now!
It's DONE, with just under 2 hrs to go, phew!
Here's the Supermarine FB2 XK225 coded L with 16 Sqdn RAF Germany in 1969, based at Laarbruch in the tactical nuclear strike role, carrying a single US Mk7 nuke and a couple of AIM-9Es for self defence.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/358/ZlqMeh.jpg)
Wearing standard RAF grey & green camo scheme with Type D roundels, 16 Sqdn's FB2s had a single code letter on their fins, repeated on the nosewheel door, and the squadron crest on the fin top.
In its later years the Scimitar FB2 was fitted with the RWR system in the box-type fairing on top of the fin, and still carried the FAA's arrestor hook under the tail.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4968/mMLyBK.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/580/AhvsyJ.jpg)
While not having the 'single manned' authority allowed to the FAA's Scimitars to use their Red Beard nukes against enemy shipping, the FB2s had an extended nose and a two seater tandem cockpit, thus allowing the 'dual key' authorisation required by the US supplied Mk 7 nukes. The FB2s carried 16's yellow & black side bars either side of the nose roundel, and the traditional sharksmouth marking too.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2143/zA0bPl.jpg)
The underside view shows the complete weapons load, plus the single drop tank on the starboard side to balance out the big Mk 7. Two 30 mm ADEN cannon could be fitted, but were often removed leaving just the blast tubes in place.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7167/rWxh5e.jpg)
The raison d'etre of the FBA2, the big Mk 7 nuke, intended to prevent any T-55s and their ilk getting through the Fulda Gap.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/347/krtvPi.jpg)
While missing the flap blowing system of their naval counterparts, the RAF Scimitars had longer spanned, non-folding wings. In addition the FAA's side mounted air brakes did not find favour with the RAF and the FB2s were fitted with a belly mounted, barn door airbrake, very similar to that fitted to Hunters.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2197/FZBoPQ.jpg)
The FB2s provided a strong force placed tactically to prevent any Soviet incursions into West Germany for much of the 60s and 70s, their blazing speed at low level and their heavy fighting ability proved their point to those east of the Intra-German border during that period.
Very nice ! Looks a natural like that.
Beauty! :wub: :thumbsup:
Nice job! :thumbsup:
Glad you got it done! In custom car building I believe they call the night before the show the "thrash".
With only 1.25 hrs to go in the UK before I posted the pics, and even less before I posted them in the 'Finished Entries' thread, that was cutting it just a BIT fine for me. :o
I've taken steps to avoid losing the decal paper again by putting them under the scanner lid of my printer, but with the edges sticking out, all at the suggestion of my lady friend, a very practical woman. :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: Top stuff, Kit. Must admit I do find the Scimitar a rather attractive machine.
I usually keep stuff for the printer near the printer, saves looking too far for it.
Good looking build Kit :thumbsup:
Gondor
Looks great Kit ..turned into a real beauty 😍 :thumbsup:
I took a printer to the tip during the week for my blister in law. Under the scanner lid I found a membership application for a local club signed and dated 2006.
Just saying... ;)
This looks great Kit. Good job.
Come out well Kit :thumbsup:
Quote from: zenrat on June 08, 2024, 04:49:33 AMI took a printer to the tip during the week for my blister in law. Under the scanner lid I found a membership application for a local club signed and dated 2006.
Just saying... ;)
This looks great Kit. Good job.
Those printers and computers can have some interesting parts inside.
Really nice take on the Scimitar. I like it
Quote from: kerick on June 08, 2024, 08:31:39 PMQuote from: zenrat on June 08, 2024, 04:49:33 AMI took a printer to the tip during the week for my blister in law. Under the scanner lid I found a membership application for a local club signed and dated 2006.
Just saying... ;)
This looks great Kit. Good job.
Those printers and computers can have some interesting parts inside.
So do VCRs, and telephones and microwaves and shavers and all the other things i've dismantled for parts which now take up space in my shed...
Quote from: zenrat on June 12, 2024, 04:09:49 AMQuote from: kerick on June 08, 2024, 08:31:39 PMQuote from: zenrat on June 08, 2024, 04:49:33 AMI took a printer to the tip during the week for my blister in law. Under the scanner lid I found a membership application for a local club signed and dated 2006.
Just saying... ;)
This looks great Kit. Good job.
Those printers and computers can have some interesting parts inside.
So do VCRs, and telephones and microwaves and shavers and all the other things i've dismantled for parts which now take up space in my shed...
The fun part is figuring out which parts are ABS or PS so I can glue them. At least most have some form of symbol on them somewhere. Some plastics cannot be glued with anything.