In the early 1940's, T-34 tanks were evaluated by both American and British engineers to see what they could learn from the Soviets. The Americans showed little interest in the design but the British (who at this stage in the war desperately needed more tanks in the North African theatre) were in awe of the machine. It was strong, reliable, cheap and fast to produce. They chose to buy the T-34 from the Soviets rather than opt for the American Sherman. Later in the war the British would produce the T-34 under license, later variants would include British guns and engines.
This model shows an early British T-34/75 in action in the North African campaign in December 1941.

Very original idea Raff   

I like this one 👌 😄

I love this concept! I don't know the history to say how close to reality your story could be but what a learning curve that would have been. I'm sure the British had some reasons for their designs but they always seemed so overly complicated to me. Some kind of concept blending might have been interesting.

 

Quote from: kerick on September 11, 2023, 06:32:30 PMI love this concept! I don't know the history to say how close to reality your story could be but what a learning curve that would have been. I'm sure the British had some reasons for their designs but they always seemed so overly complicated to me. Some kind of concept blending might have been interesting.

From my understanding, the Americans and British did evaluate the T-34 and the British did show interest in the design but I can't remember why they didn't take things any further. The Americans didn't like it because it was too crude and they thought the turret was too cramped (something that obviously didn't bother the British)

Makes no sense (to me) but it looks great, even the OOB dioranma/base works well in the desert setting! 

Oh, I like that idea Might have to pinch it for a 1:35 scale model at some point ...

Quote from: RAFF-35 on September 12, 2023, 12:16:59 AMFrom my understanding, the Americans and British did evaluate the T-34

They did — IIRC, the USSR gave both of them a T-34 and a KV-1 for trials, which is why Bovington has the latter (not sure what happened to the T-34).

The British would have been less concerned about the cramped turret because almost all of their designs were behind the curve on the gun-vs-armour race, so they were constantly up-gunning their tanks almost from the first production run, meaning that the turrets were suddenly crowded.

They took the M4 Shermans because they came with a decent gun in a spacious turret (it wasn't that the Brit's didn't appreciate the benefits of a spacious turret, they just rarely had the opportunity to keep theirs spacious) but, even then, they chucked the 17pdr into some of them.

This is good.  Got me thinking of a KV-2 in the Caunter Scheme...

Quote from: Jakko on September 12, 2023, 01:31:51 AMOh, I like that idea Might have to pinch it for a 1:35 scale model at some point ...

Quote from: RAFF-35 on September 12, 2023, 12:16:59 AMFrom my understanding, the Americans and British did evaluate the T-34

They did — IIRC, the USSR gave both of them a T-34 and a KV-1 for trials, which is why Bovington has the latter (not sure what happened to the T-34).

By all means, take the idea. I'd love to see one in 1:35! I'm also planning to do one with a 17pdr.

Ahh yes, I knew there was more than a grain of historical truth to this build 😄

Quote from: zenrat on September 12, 2023, 04:15:34 AMThis is good.  Got me thinking of a KV-2 in the Caunter Scheme...

That sounds very interesting!    I might steal that idea if you don't do it first! 

Oh imagine a Sherman Firefly in the Western Desert 🏜
Or a Jumbo with easy eight suspension and 17pdr gun ...to be continued 😬

Quote from: RAFF-35 on September 12, 2023, 11:12:45 AM

Quote from: zenrat on September 12, 2023, 04:15:34 AMThis is good.  Got me thinking of a KV-2 in the Caunter Scheme...

That sounds very interesting!    I might steal that idea if you don't do it first! 

Go for it.   

Nice idea!

The British would have, I suspect, found the T-34 somewhat familiar, since both it and the British Cruiser tank designs had a common ancestor in the Christie tank designs of the 1930s. Had we got our finger out with tank design, it's quite possible that an evolved British cruiser tank could have looekd more like a T-34 and less like a Cromwell.

Can I make one small suggestion? I don't think the British would have adopted the Russian DShK heavy machine-gun as seen on this model. You could easily swap it for a more typical Bren Gun (preferably on the odd anti-aircraft mounting some British tanks used) and that would very much help to "sell" the Britishness of it.

EDIT: they were called "Lakeman" mounts. Here's one on a Valentine (note that the gun has the 100-round drum mag, not the usual curved box mag, but is IS a Bren, not a Lewis or Vickers K gun):

Quote from: Wardukw on September 12, 2023, 12:59:07 PMOr a Jumbo with easy eight suspension and 17pdr gun ...to be continued 😬

Everything aside from "Jumbo" in that is not technically a what-if, because in his list of conversions are a number of tanks with serial numbers, both M4 and M4A3, after the change to HVSS. A 17-pounder gun in a 76 mm turret would be, though, because IRL it was found that this required rather more changes than fitting it into a 75 mm turret did, so they never bothered.