avatar_Pellson

1/72 RDAF F-86D Sabre

Started by Pellson, January 03, 2024, 06:37:30 PM

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Pellson

Having gotten somewhat stalled on other projects, I went ahead with a Hasegawa F-86D that's been sitting in my StashTM for a few years. It's always been planned for the Royal Danish Air Force, but I haven't quite finalised the details such as role, armament and scheme. As of now, however, I think that I'll stretch reality a bit and look at an anti shipping role, armed with some kind of missile. As the Sabre was replaced in RDAF as an all weather fighter already in 1965, the story will have to be that the threat level perceived would have necessitated a race for ASM's already by then (plausible - the Swedes were on that ball already in the late fifties) and utilisation of an existing asset, if modified somewhat, rather than buying more Super Sabres or Starfighters. The former can be circumvented by using radar as a necessary feature for target acquisition and/or attack, whereas the latter probably will have to be excused either by lack of airframes and/or the need to focus available airframes on interceptor duties, as in reality.

Armament is also a problem. The only western airborne anti ship missile available in the 1960's is the Swedish Rb04c but while Denmark reasonably could have bought some, it weighs in around 600 kg each, and that's a lot for the rather small Sabre. Next up are the German Kormoran in 1972 which is about in the same weight class and then the Norwegian Penguin, some 325 kg, so good weight, but in reality only available as ground/ship launched from 1972 and air launched from 1979 or so. While the latter date could be changed to at least the mid 70's, it's still however a bit late.
Instead, I'm considering hanging a pair of Bullpups under the Sabre, these will be well within the time frame discussed but to match the role better, I might have to argue that these have been modified with either an SARH or a IR homing seeker, giving them both the autonomy and the allweather capability needed over the Baltic Sea.

So that's the battle plan. Now for the build.

The kit is a Hasegawa F-86D, JSDF issue. A good looking kit, but I don't like the seat being partly melded into the cockpit tip as this prevents me from replacing it with a more modern bang seat. Also, some fittings could have been more stable, such as the dash panel and the jet pipe, f.i.
However, having closed up the fuselage and attached wings and stabilators, it's a clean and nice little model, so it'll be fine, I guess.

And that's where I am right now. Progress will, hopefully, follow.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

Dizzyfugu

Personally, I have always been thinking of SAAB A32s with Rb 04 missiles as dedicated Danish anti-shipping aircraft, in an all-green livery, and maybe rotten like the F-100s...?
Bullpups are a good choice/alternative, though, another option could be the French AS.30 (or even the earlier/small AS.20), a predecesor of the German Kormoran?
Looking forward for the materialization of this.  :lol:

Gondor

This is whiff world, no reason why you couldn't change the shape of the Bullpup's nose to house an IR sensor. In fact you could make it a trials aircraft testing out the IR homeing Bullpup.

Gondor
My Ability to Imagine is only exceeded by my Imagined Abilities

Gondor's Modelling Rule Number Three: Everything will fit perfectly untill you apply glue...

I know it's in a book I have around here somewhere....

Dizzyfugu

#3
In Vietnam there were jury-rigged so-called "Bullwinders": Bullpups with IR seeker heads from Sidewinder AAMs, which were used to attack already burning targets like ships, refineries or fuel stores. Not many were produced or even deployed, and they did not have a proper "AGM-XX" designation, IIRC.


Pellson

Quote from: Dizzyfugu on January 03, 2024, 11:43:24 PMPersonally, I have always been thinking of SAAB A32s with Rb 04 missiles as dedicated Danish anti-shipping aircraft, in an all-green livery, and maybe rotten like the F-100s...?
Bullpups are a good choice/alternative, though, another option could be the French AS.30 (or even the earlier/small AS.20), a predecesor of the German Kormoran?
Looking forward for the materialization of this.  :lol:

Thanks Thomas. Very good comments, and I wasn't aware of the "Bullwinder" either.  If one can do that, then why not add a SARH head much in the same way? And, as a matter of fact, the Danes did use the original AGM-12B on both Super Sabres and Drakens, so knowledge about the missile will have been there already.

A Danish Lansen. It isn't as if I haven't toyed with the idea.. :angel:
However, I've always started from the assumption that one takes what one already has, and in this case, not only did I have a Sabre Dog kit lying around, but also, in the 1960's, the RDAF had sixty airframes in three Eskadrilles. Admittedly, in 1965, when retiring them from interceptor duties, they'd already lost about a third, but the remaining forty one a/c would have been well enough for two anti shipping Eskadrilles plus spares. Hence, why not?
From a technology perspective, however - have you seen the similarities between the Sabre Dog nose profile and the Lansen? One could easily see the Danes ripping all of the American SAGE gear out just to buy some Swedish Lansen sets to replace it. After all, reading up on the F-86 in RDAF service, their main headaches seem to have revolved around the somewhat temperamental fuel system and the rather awful electronics. Half the issue solved!  ;)

We'll, there we are. That's most of the backstory already! One could even go on expanding to the RNoAF, starting like this but with their F-86K's, but finding the Bullpup somewhat lacking and hence accelerating the air launched Penguin variant.. I would need a K kit, though..  :angel:
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

mat

The electronics in RDAFs F-86Ds were a real nightmare. When I was in ESK 730 in RDAF one of the mechanics in the hangar had once been in one of the Dog Sabre squadrons. The electronics were based on vacuum tubes, which were very sensitive to humidity. Danish weather means a lot of rain and to make things even worse Aalborg AB, were the F-86D squadrons were based lies on the shore of a fiord (Limfjorden), so the air is pretty salty.

Pellson

Quote from: mat on January 04, 2024, 08:36:14 AMThe electronics in RDAFs F-86Ds were a real nightmare. When I was in ESK 730 in RDAF one of the mechanics in the hangar had once been in one of the Dog Sabre squadrons. The electronics were based on vacuum tubes, which were very sensitive to humidity. Danish weather means a lot of rain and to make things even worse Aalborg AB, were the F-86D squadrons were based lies on the shore of a fiord (Limfjorden), so the air is pretty salty.

So good to see you again, Mat, and thanks for the hospitality last fall.  :wub:

Yes, that is very much what I have read, and hence, it seems some Swedish, climate adapted electronics wouldn't have been such a bad trade, would it?  ;)
I only wish I was as good as you are at weathering that green RDAF camouflage.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

Pellson

#7
Finally got most of the construction done this weekend, but actually as an in between while building a pair of Tunnans together with the lad. Remaining are pylons and loadout, and maybe a few minor bobs and pokers, but that remains to be seen.

As so often, also this Hasegawa kit went together quite well, even if - as always - building a Hasegawa kit wheels up is a bit of a challenge. This time, they'd cheated with the gear doors, only providing ready-made gear-down pieces meaning that one of the nose gear doors was cast folded. I find that a bit offensive, to be honest! Anyway - it's amazing what some sheet plastic, a knife and a file can do..

On the other hand, the canopy interior piece was very nice, and I did take some extra time to paint it up a bit, going after a photo I found on the webz. Having glued it in and closed the canopy up, I'm glad I did. It looks really good.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

zenrat

This kit?  With the awesome box art?

Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

Pellson

Quote from: zenrat on January 22, 2024, 03:47:21 AMThis kit?  With the awesome box art?



The very same!  :thumbsup:
A quite nice kit indeed.

Right now, it looks something like this.

You cannot view this attachment.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

NARSES2

Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

DogfighterZen

"Sticks and stones may break some bones but a 3.57's gonna blow your damn head off!!"

The Wooksta!

That nose needs some filler and sanding. 
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Pellson

Quote from: The Wooksta! on January 22, 2024, 01:36:46 PMThat nose needs some filler and sanding. 

You're quite right, Lee, but I haven't quite decided if I can get arsed to..
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

The Wooksta!

Filling and sanding is something I find very calming.  One aspect of a build I actually look forward to.  I'm looking forward to being able to get outside in the sun to sand down that Ju 390 I got a few weeks back.
"It's basically a cure -  for not being an axe-wielding homicidal maniac. The potential market's enormous!"

"Visit Scarfolk today!"
https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/

"Dance, dance, dance, dance, dance to the radio!"

The Plan:
www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic