Quote from: Weaver on February 08, 2024, 01:08:57 PM

Quote from: The Rat on February 08, 2024, 01:06:23 PMWe can go all the way back to the Kikka, an Me-262 knock-off:

The Kikka was more of an "inspired by" than a knock-off. It had straight wings and an oval-section, instead of triangular-section, fuselage. Very much the sort of thing I have in mind though.

Plus it's much smaller and was designed as an attack aircraft not a fighter. 

Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 08, 2024, 03:17:07 PM

Quote from: McColm on February 08, 2024, 01:13:53 PMWell the Japanese did build their own version of the Lockheed Neptune,  so the Lockheed P-3 Orion would be next.

They DID build the P-3 under licence. Kawasaki built them and some are still in service.

Okay, so that begs the question, in whif-world, how might they have been physically different, i.e. in a way that you'd notice on a model?

The Japanese Neptunes were re-engined with turboprops IIRC. Maybe the JASDF decided that they liked the speed of the Nimrod but wanted compatibility with US systems, so they built a hybrid aircraft with an Orion's fuselage mated to new wings with four turbofans and inwards-retracting undercarriage. This would be a bit like the much later P-1, but with a straight wing.

The Shin Meiwa PS-1/US-1 surely seemed to borrow some fuselage ideas for the P-5M Marlin (and the Company did work on US P-5Ms), but with a different wing and turboprops.   

Quote from: Weaver on February 08, 2024, 01:08:57 PM

Quote from: The Rat on February 08, 2024, 01:06:23 PMThe Kikka was more of an "inspired by" than a knock-off.

Agreed, better choice of words.

Quote from: Weaver on February 08, 2024, 03:33:26 PMOkay, so that begs the question, in whif-world, how might they have been physically different, i.e. in a way that you'd notice on a model?

Fit them with longer wings perhaps, just as an idea of course................ 

Actually the Electra/P-3 always looks a  bit underwinged, the #1 and #4 engines are a LONG way out!

Quote from: McColm on February 08, 2024, 01:13:53 PMWell the Japanese did build their own version of the Lockheed Neptune,  so the Lockheed P-3 Orion would be next.

Well, the P-2J with turboprop engines and jet boosters was already an exclusive Japanese adaptation!

Quote from: The Rat on February 08, 2024, 01:06:23 PMWe can go all the way back to the Kikka, an Me-262 knock-off:

The Kikka was a VERY different and also much smaller aircraft than the Me 262. The layout was similar, but that's where any similarity ends!

...the discussion about the F-1/T-2 makes me wonder about a Japanized BAe Hawk as an alternative for the indigenous T-4, since the Adour was built in Japan under license, too. Maybe a de-navalized T-45? 

Quote from: Dizzyfugu on February 08, 2024, 11:50:58 PM

Quote from: The Rat on February 08, 2024, 01:06:23 PMWe can go all the way back to the Kikka, an Me-262 knock-off:

The Kikka was a VERY different and also much smaller aircraft than the Me 262. The layout was similar, but that's where any similarity ends!

True, but it was based on the 262, but something probably got lost in translation. 

Quote from: Weaver on February 08, 2024, 03:33:26 PM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 08, 2024, 03:17:07 PM

Quote from: McColm on February 08, 2024, 01:13:53 PMWell the Japanese did build their own version of the Lockheed Neptune,  so the Lockheed P-3 Orion would be next.

They DID build the P-3 under licence. Kawasaki built them and some are still in service.

Okay, so that begs the question, in whif-world, how might they have been physically different, i.e. in a way that you'd notice on a model?

The Japanese Neptunes were re-engined with turboprops IIRC. Maybe the JASDF decided that they liked the speed of the Nimrod but wanted compatibility with US systems, so they built a hybrid aircraft with an Orion's fuselage mated to new wings with four turbofans and inwards-retracting undercarriage. This would be a bit like the much later P-1, but with a straight wing.

I did have a go at kitbashing the Airfix BAe Nimrod with the Hasegawa P-3 Orion model, I now know that if you build the fuselage and tail of the Orion then put it to one side. Build the Nimrod as per instructions, then cut the nose and tail leaving the centre section. You can then slip the Orion fuselage over the top and with a bit of tinkering you can get a perfect fit.
Airfix secondhand prices are beyond my budget but the vacform kits or if you prefer the 1/144 scale that might be an easier option.

I would use the leftover parts from the Lockheed P-3 Orion to form a four engined Breguet Br.1150 Atlantic with the Revell kit,  the leftover parts from the BAe Nimrod are a better fit using the Mach2 Atlantic or Sud Caravelle model.

Quote from: The Rat on February 09, 2024, 12:12:09 AM

Quote from: Dizzyfugu on February 08, 2024, 11:50:58 PM

Quote from: The Rat on February 08, 2024, 01:06:23 PMWe can go all the way back to the Kikka, an Me-262 knock-off:

The Kikka was a VERY different and also much smaller aircraft than the Me 262. The layout was similar, but that's where any similarity ends!

True, but it was based on the 262, but something probably got lost in translation. 

According to Wiki:

After the Japanese military attaché in Germany witnessed trials of the Messerschmitt Me 262 in 1942, the Imperial Japanese Navy issued a request to Nakajima to develop a similar aircraft to be used as a fast attack aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_Kikka

Quote from: Dizzyfugu on February 08, 2024, 11:57:22 PM...the discussion about the F-1/T-2 makes me wonder about a Japanized BAe Hawk as an alternative for the indigenous T-4, since the Adour was built in Japan under license, too. Maybe a de-navalized T-45? 

That's a good one!

The T-4 is almost like a Hawk and an Alpha Jet had a baby... You might imagine it having the same high-wing setup, but with a single Adour and low-set tailplanes.

Quote from: Weaver on February 09, 2024, 04:14:33 AMThe T-4 is almost like a Hawk and an Alpha Jet had a baby...

A FAT baby! Compared with an Alpha Jet it is quite bulky, despite a similar layout.
But I like the idea of a Japanized Hawk, should look cool in bright fligght school colors and with hinomaru. 

Then there's the Kawasaki C-1 which looks like a twin engine C-17.

Quote from: McColm on February 09, 2024, 08:26:34 AMThen there's the Kawasaki C-1 which looks like a twin engine C-17.

C-1 looks more like a baby Starlifter.  The C-2 is the baby C-17