Quote from: jcf on December 18, 2022, 02:44:34 PMI can see the big elevators for the large aircraft being on the centreline, but I think that the smaller
elevators could be staggered outboard to either side.

You mean something like the first picture below?
That won't work. At least for the "historically accurate" (To the best of my ability.) model I plan to build.
The second picture below shows port and starboard upper/lower hangar spaces for aircraft on either side of the central crew and machinery spaces. A person could have aircraft elevators above the port and starboard aircraft hangar areas if they wished on their own model. For several years, I used to think this was what an interior cross section of the Habakkuk looked like.
A lot of sketches, blueprints, articles, etc., etc. that I discovered over the past several years showed a similar layout. But, THIS WAS WRONG. All wrong.
After I bought Lorne W. Gold's "The Canadian Habbakuk Project" book earlier this year and began to read it, I got a slightly better understanding of the building process for a proposed real Habakkuk vessel.
I may not understand a lot of things in the book as it reads like a scientific/engineering journal, but I soon realized that the spaces on either side of the central crew areas were not supposed to be aircraft hangars, but rather areas built up with a "resin/honeycomb" construction of regular ice, concrete support columns, and/or other non-pykrete materials. One of the main reasons for this had to do with the vessel's buoyancy and structural integrity as the vessel was being designed. The third picture below is from Lorne Gold's book.
After I read Gold's book, I then went back and looked all over again at some past sketches, diagrams, etc. I had. In the last fourth and fifth sample pictures below from a magazine article titled "HABAKKUK" by William J. Wallace, the red areas I outlined were to be that resin/honeycomb construction I mentioned.
So therefore, aircraft hangars and/or elevators on either side of the central crew area will not work.
As for why a lot of media sources (Magazines, books, websites, journals, etc.) tend to show an interior cross section of the Habakkuk with port and starboard aircraft hangars as shown in the second picture below, I'll never know. After WWII, in 1946 there was a press release about Project Habakkuk. I suspect that some media sources during that time got some facts wrong from the press release and/or decided to "sensationalize" the project and twist certain things for their own gain. Whatever the case might be, the media throughout the last several decades has gotten a lot of things wrong about Project Habakkuk. Hopefully, I can correct some of those things as I not only build my model, but also explain the history of Project Habakkuk in my posts.

Just to let everyone know that I am making some building progress on this huge model project. But the building is slow right now due to the holidays and there isn't much to show right now. Once Christmas and New Year's is done, I hope to show better progress next year. Please be patient. And I'm sure there are some who are tired of me "talking" about Habakkuk in this thread and the bits of history associated with the real project. But all the extra talk I give on the real Habakkuk project is necessary to understand what went on back in 1943 during World War II, how this vessel was designed, and so much more concerning Project Habakkuk.

In other news...........

For the last week or so, I've been working on building the island superstructure. As usual, there are no diagrams, blueprints, etc. that show how this was supposed to look. The only consistant things about the superstructure from various sources are that it was probably going to be bigger and longer than a normal island superstructure from a regular aircraft carrier, plus it was designed to have 2 smokestack funnels.  More information about the island superstructure I am building can be found in Post #'s 12-14 back on Page 1 of this thread.

FIRST PICTURE BELOW: Basic length and width is 12" inches long x 1" inch wide. Though the length will be longer at both ends once some 5" gun emplacements are added. A long piece of thin styrene sheet was used as the "floor" and the "roof" for the superstructure. I also had to add a few internal crosswise braces as a few areas were bowing inward which I had to prevent.
SECOND PICTURE BELOW: This is the port side of the superstructure that faces the flight deck. I cut open a few "garage doors" so to speak for personnel and/or deck vehicles to enter/exit.
THIRD PICTURE BELOW: This is the starboard side of the superstructure. I cut open one small door on this side for crew which will lead to possibly the boat deck/overhangs which will be explained further below.
FOURTH PICTURE BELOW: The two ESSEX class carrier superstructures I used have been glued to the lower island superstructure assembly. I still need to "connect" both of them in the middle to create one long superstructure piece. The middle will be filled in with sheet styrene and other bits. I am not sure what I'll put in the middle between the two funnels once everything is built and finished. Other catwalks and walkways will get added to the port and starboard sides of the ESSEX superstructures in future days and weeks.
FIFTH PICTURE BELOW: At either end of the island superstructure will be 5" gun mounts arranged in a step pattern. The picture I posted is just a loose interpretation of how it will eventually look.
SIXTH PICTURE BELOW: Looking at the Habakkuk model as if looking forward toward the bow, you can see where I plan (Hopefully) to have some 20mm and 40mm gun galleries along the superstructure as well as some possible deck overhangs for ship's boats. Though this may be subject to change in the future.

  

NEED SOME OPINIONS ON THE FOLLOWING, PLEASE.
I thought I had the armament all figured out for my ship. But now, I'm not so sure? 
Having forty 5" twin gun mounts will not change.
All the 40mm AA gun positions along the hull edge probably will not change. BUT..........I am uncertain on how many 40mm mounts to put on the port and starboard sides of the island superstructure. I don't want too many as it'll make the superstructure too crowded. But at the same time, you want to have the island superstructure well defended as that is where a lot of command and control functions are.
I am still undecided on adding any 20mm guns anywhere on the model. How effective would they have really been against German aircraft? Surely the 40mm and 5" guns can take care of most German aircraft that would dare try to attack the Habakkuk? And the Habakkuk may have extra escort ships with it to help provide added defense. Plus, as I said before in a past post on Page 1 or 2, a carrier's main defense is not necessarily it's armament to protect it, but rather the air group it carries. The Habakkuk's planes are the first line of defense. The ship's guns are the second.
I don't know hardly anything about Germany's bomber forces during WWII. How effective were they in reaching their targets? If the Habakkuk had actually existed, could German bomber aircraft have reached the Habakkuk in the mid northern Atlantic to attack it? What bombers would have been used? The Ju-88, He-111, the Condor?
And Germany never did complete it's Graf Zepplin aircraft carrier. So having fighters attack the Habakkuk would be nil. I doubt they'd have the range.
Come to think of it, Germany never did place a high priority on long range bombers and bombing campaigns during WWII. It never had quite the four engine long range bomber force that the Allies had.
If the Habakkuk were in the Pacific and being attacked by the Japanese, then that's a different story. But the Habakkuk is in the mid northern Atlantic.
How much would it really have to fear from German aerial assault/bombardment? Little? Some? None? Or a lot?

Your right in that the germans had no real long range bombers of the same calibre as the USAAF and RAF had. The Condor was the longest range aircraft used in any numbers over the North Atlantic and it was mainly used for reconnaissance and communications relay to the Wolf Packs of submarines even though it was capable of performong some bombing by itself. The Condor was a converted Airliner so was not exactly designed for attack and was often driven away from convoys that had CAM ships in attendance. Ju88's were also operating a fair distance away from shore, although I don't thing the longest range version would have had the range to reach mid atlantic unless it was a one way trip. In general, Germany although they had some long or longish range aircraft didn't have many of them so they would have been few and fairly far between and probably easily driven away by any fleet defence aircraft the Habakkuk would have carried.
As for the 40mm guns around the superstructure, sure, put some on both sides of it although I would think that you would need less on the deck side of the superstructure than the other side, you would also have the guns from the other side of the deck defending on that side as well.

Gondor

Quote from: Gondor on December 23, 2022, 10:55:52 AMAs for the 40mm guns around the superstructure, sure, put some on both sides of it although I would think that you would need less on the deck side of the superstructure than the other side, you would also have the guns from the other side of the deck defending on that side as well.

Gondor

I think I get what you're saying there. There's three 40mm gun positions on the port side edge of the Habakkuk in the center as I showed in the first pic with the colored dots. Because of these positions, it might not be necessary to add more 40mm on the port side of the superstructure (facing the flight deck) since the port side hull edge 40mm are covering that side. Though I may add two 40mm positions on the port side of the superstructure as a "backup" so to speak.
As for the starboard side of the superstructure, I might do the same thing and add two 40mm.
So all total for the superstructure, there would be one 40mm gun mount at each end of the superstructure, two on the port side, and two on the starboard side.
But for the port side ship total, there would be seven 40mm gun positions. For the starboard side ship total, there would be ten 40mm gun positions.
10 on one side and 7 on the other. A three 40mm mount difference, but like I said, you may need extra defenses to protect the superstructure since it has all the command and control functions.
Anyway, I'll do some thinking and play around with the parts I have to see what looks best before I go gluing anything.

1st & 2nd Pictures Below: I made the decision to add a few 20mm gun galleries on either side of the island superstructure. Not very many though as I didn't want the island superstructure too crowded with stuff. I also added two 40mm gun mounts in the middle on both sides of the superstructure plus the additional tubs for the Mk.51 directors that direct the 40mm guns. Having the 40mm guns in the middle might look weird, but I needed something to cover up that blank styrene sheet.
And the 20mm gun galleries are different on both sides because I had to be careful with placement and not cover up any portholes in the bulkheads underneath the galleries. So I had to use different sizes/lengths of 20mm gun galleries. Thankfully, everything evened out accordingly when placing them.
3rd Picture Below: I'm sure you're all wondering which end of the superstructure has the bridge? Or can the ship be steered from both ends?    Using ESSEX class carrier island structures wasn't my first choice when building the island superstructure for the Habakkuk, but it was all I had to work with. I know both ends look nearly the same, but there's a slight difference. The red circles indicate the placement of where the tripod radar mast legs are supposed to go. This is the side of the structure where the main bridge is located.
The yellow circled area doesn't have the slight deck extensions for the tripod radar mast legs to sit on. I had to cut them off when turning around the placement of the funnel on the right side (and the searchlight platform on either side of the funnel) to match up the direction of the smokestack funnel on the left.

  

Continuing on.............

I made up a few ship's boats overhangs and cranes to put on the starboard side of the model hull. The overhangs were made from spare Essex carrier parts and styrene sheet. The cranes came from extra Essex carrier kits I had. I'm not having that many overhangs and/or ship's boats. If the Habakkuk goes down, there'll be plenty of life rafts hanging along the hull sides for the crew to use..........or they can cling to a floating piece of pykrete till rescue arrives.    There will only be 2 small boats per overhang. And 1 crane per overhang too. It may look like 4 boats can fit on each overhang, but I only want two instead. I don't want the overhangs too crowded. I was thinking of putting one overhang under each 20mm gun gallery, and one overhang under the 40mm gun gallery. Not to worry, there will be sufficient space for the cranes to fit under all the AA gun galleries.

I'm just more and more gobsmacked every time I look at this 

I never knew this existed and a modeling friend just got it for me for Christmas! WOW!   
Now I don't have to scratch build a Habakkuk anymore. I now have a regular model kit of one. (I wish!    )



Anyway............
There's not much more I can do on the island superstructure. I'm either low on model supplies or I need to buy more. Still have to add some photoetch hatches, fire hose racks, life rings, and a few ladders. Also need to decide on what radars to have and their placement on the superstructure. And of course, everything will need painting. But I need to find some good sources for ship camouflage measures for the North Atlantic, particuarly in submarine infested waters. So anyway, I may not have new progress on the superstructure till sometime in January next year.

So just how big would a real Habakkuk vessel have been compared to some other real vessels, buildings, and other structures?
A real Habakkuk vessel was to be:
2,000 feet long (610 meters)
300 feet wide (Hull only without motor nacelles attached.) (91 meters)
336 feet total width (With motor nacelles attached to hull.) (103 meters)
200 feet high (Flight deck to bottom of hull.) (61 meters)
Displacement of 2,000,000+ tons

By comparison, the longest/largest ocean going vessel ever built (and which is now decommissioned) was the Seawise Giant oil supertanker.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawise_Giant
Other longest/largest vessels and structures by comparison to the Habakkuk can be found in these two links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_naval_ships
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings

Love the box art    Just wonder what the retail price is ? 

Quote from: NARSES2 on December 26, 2022, 05:36:20 AMLove the box art    Just wonder what the retail price is ? 

You know as well as I do  ""If you need to ask the price you can't afford it!"...........................but it's a fine piece of box art Whiffery.



I wonder what the box size and weight would be?

Quote from: Rheged on December 26, 2022, 05:40:06 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on December 26, 2022, 05:36:20 AMLove the box art    Just wonder what the retail price is ? 

You know as well as I do  ""If you need to ask the price you can't afford it!"...........................but it's a fine piece of box art Whiffery.

I wonder what the box size and weight would be?

Equivalent to IKEA's Malm 4 drawer dresser flatpack?