The Battle of Dien Bien Phu was 1954 so I suppose one could have nations other than France involved in Vietnam earlier.
Justifying SEA camo schemes 10 years early maybe.

Quote from: zenrat on February 12, 2023, 01:35:58 AMThe Battle of Dien Bien Phu was 1954 so I suppose one could have nations other than France involved in Vietnam earlier.
Justifying SEA camo schemes 10 years early maybe.

The French were using mostly surplus US gear at that point, so one easy what-if would be to give them different surplus/export options. Sea Furies instead of Bearcats? Tigercats instead of Kingcobras?

Quote from: Weaver on February 12, 2023, 04:01:50 AM

Quote from: zenrat on February 12, 2023, 01:35:58 AMThe Battle of Dien Bien Phu was 1954 so I suppose one could have nations other than France involved in Vietnam earlier.
Justifying SEA camo schemes 10 years early maybe.

The French were using mostly surplus US gear at that point, so one easy what-if would be to give them different surplus/export options. Sea Furies instead of Bearcats? Tigercats instead of Kingcobras?

One aircraft the french wanted, but didn't got was the P-47.

Having just read The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam I was tempted by something French.

Quote from: loupgarou on February 12, 2023, 05:41:16 AMOne aircraft the french wanted, but didn't got was the P-47.

Now that is interesting, thankyou 

Checking and the Revell "D" comes with French markings, would just need to fit a load of zero length rails rockets. 

Possible REAL WORLD starting points, British troop deployments  courtesy of the excellent Britain's Small Wars website   http://britains-smallwars.com/   :-

1948-1960 - Malaya Emergency

 
1948-1951 - Eritrea (Operations against Shifta Terrorists)

 
1950 - Singapore (Hartog riots)

 
1950-1957 - Korean War

Including post-Armistice operations.

 
1951-1954 - Suez Canal Zone

 
1952 - Monte Bello Island Oct. First British A Bomb test

 
1952-1956 - Kenya - Operations against the Mau Mau
 
1953 - British Guiana

 
1954-1983 - Cyprus

 
1955 - Singapore Riots, Buraimi Oasis operations

 
1956 - Bahrain riots, Hong Kong riots, Singapore riots

Suez operations  Clash on Yemenis Border

1957 - British Honduras, Yemeni border clash

 
1957 - Christmas Island May First British H Bomb test

 
1957-1959 - Muscat and Oman (6/6)

1958 - Nassau strike, Jordan/Lebanon intervention

 
1958 - State of emergency declared in Aden

 
1958 - Nyasaland (Malawi) Riots

Not very peaceful then, were we? 

Quote from: NARSES2 on February 12, 2023, 06:13:45 AMHaving just read The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam I was tempted by something French.

Quote from: loupgarou on February 12, 2023, 05:41:16 AMOne aircraft the french wanted, but didn't got was the P-47.

Now that is interesting, thankyou 

Checking and the Revell "D" comes with French markings, would just need to fit a load of zero length rails rockets. 

According to Wikipedia, the French air force had P-47s post-war and used them in Algeria, which is why I didn't suggest it (it was my first thought too). I don't know why they didn't send some to Indochina, nor if they would have looked any different if they did.

EDIT: I think it may have had something to do with US political support. I'm still trying to read up on it, but it looks like the US was unwilling to support the French re-taking their colonial possessions for the first few years of the Indochina war, until it became apparent that the Chinese were involved in suppying the Viet Minh, at which point the US reversed their position, since they now saw it as a matter of defeating 'global communism'. Hence the replacement of the clapped-out P-63s by much better Bearcats.

a propos nothing - when did RAE start using raspberry ripple for aircraft under assessment?

Quote from: Weaver on February 12, 2023, 09:43:27 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on February 12, 2023, 06:13:45 AMHaving just read The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam I was tempted by something French.

Quote from: loupgarou on February 12, 2023, 05:41:16 AMOne aircraft the french wanted, but didn't got was the P-47.

Now that is interesting, thankyou 

Checking and the Revell "D" comes with French markings, would just need to fit a load of zero length rails rockets. 

According to Wikipedia, the French air force had P-47s post-war and used them in Algeria, which is why I didn't suggest it (it was my first thought too). I don't know why they didn't send some to Indochina, nor if they would have looked any different if they did.

EDIT: I think it may have had something to do with US political support. I'm still trying to read up on it, but it looks like the US was unwilling to support the French re-taking their colonial possessions for the first few years of the Indochina war, unitl it became apparent that the Chinese were involved in suppying the Viet Minh, at which point the US reverses their position, since they now saw it as a matter of defeating 'global communism'. Hence the relacement of the clapped-out P-63s by much better Bearcats.

Yes. In Indochine the french had to make do for the first years with worn and unsuitable aircraft, and scarcity of spare parts.

Quote from: loupgarou on February 12, 2023, 12:43:38 PM

Quote from: Weaver on February 12, 2023, 09:43:27 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on February 12, 2023, 06:13:45 AMHaving just read The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam I was tempted by something French.

Quote from: loupgarou on February 12, 2023, 05:41:16 AMOne aircraft the french wanted, but didn't got was the P-47.

Now that is interesting, thankyou 

Checking and the Revell "D" comes with French markings, would just need to fit a load of zero length rails rockets. 

According to Wikipedia, the French air force had P-47s post-war and used them in Algeria, which is why I didn't suggest it (it was my first thought too). I don't know why they didn't send some to Indochina, nor if they would have looked any different if they did.

EDIT: I think it may have had something to do with US political support. I'm still trying to read up on it, but it looks like the US was unwilling to support the French re-taking their colonial possessions for the first few years of the Indochina war, unitl it became apparent that the Chinese were involved in suppying the Viet Minh, at which point the US reverses their position, since they now saw it as a matter of defeating 'global communism'. Hence the relacement of the clapped-out P-63s by much better Bearcats.

Yes. In Indochine the french had to make do for the first years with worn and unsuitable aircraft, and scarcity of spare parts.

Finally found my Airacobra book!

There were three reasons for not sending P-47s to Indochina:

1. French home-based units had first call on the best aircraft, which in this case meant P-47s and Spitfires.

2. The US was reluctant to authorise the P-47's use in Indochina (not sure what the calculus was there: maybe too 'iconic'?).

3. Weight. Many airfield in Indochina were short and only 'paved' with PSP. The AdA thought that the 10,000lb P-63 would fair better than the 14,000lb P-47.

P-63s were phased out in 1951 in favour of standardising on the increasing numbers of Hellcats and Bearcats available.

Quote from: Rheged on February 12, 2023, 08:34:23 AMPossible REAL WORLD starting points, British troop deployments  courtesy of the excellent Britain's Small Wars website   http://britains-smallwars.com/   :-

1948-1960 - Malaya Emergency

 
1948-1951 - Eritrea (Operations against Shifta Terrorists)

 
1950 - Singapore (Hartog riots)

 
1950-1957 - Korean War

Including post-Armistice operations.

 
1951-1954 - Suez Canal Zone

 
1952 - Monte Bello Island Oct. First British A Bomb test

 
1952-1956 - Kenya - Operations against the Mau Mau
 
1953 - British Guiana

 
1954-1983 - Cyprus

 
1955 - Singapore Riots, Buraimi Oasis operations

 
1956 - Bahrain riots, Hong Kong riots, Singapore riots

Suez operations  Clash on Yemenis Border

1957 - British Honduras, Yemeni border clash

 
1957 - Christmas Island May First British H Bomb test

 
1957-1959 - Muscat and Oman (6/6)

1958 - Nassau strike, Jordan/Lebanon intervention

 
1958 - State of emergency declared in Aden

 
1958 - Nyasaland (Malawi) Riots

You forgot 1956 - Operation Buffalo - the first series of Atomic tests conducted on the Australian mainland at Maralinga near Woomera.

Quote from: rickshaw on February 12, 2023, 11:32:36 PM

Quote from: Rheged on February 12, 2023, 08:34:23 AMPossible REAL WORLD starting points, British troop deployments  courtesy of the excellent Britain's Small Wars website   http://britains-smallwars.com/   :-

1948-1960 - Malaya Emergency

 
1948-1951 - Eritrea (Operations against Shifta Terrorists)

 
1950 - Singapore (Hartog riots)

 
1950-1957 - Korean War

Including post-Armistice operations.

 
1951-1954 - Suez Canal Zone

 
1952 - Monte Bello Island Oct. First British A Bomb test

 
1952-1956 - Kenya - Operations against the Mau Mau
 
1953 - British Guiana

 
1954-1983 - Cyprus

 
1955 - Singapore Riots, Buraimi Oasis operations

 
1956 - Bahrain riots, Hong Kong riots, Singapore riots

Suez operations  Clash on Yemenis Border

1957 - British Honduras, Yemeni border clash

 
1957 - Christmas Island May First British H Bomb test

 
1957-1959 - Muscat and Oman (6/6)

1958 - Nassau strike, Jordan/Lebanon intervention

 
1958 - State of emergency declared in Aden

 
1958 - Nyasaland (Malawi) Riots

You forgot 1956 - Operation Buffalo - the first series of Atomic tests conducted on the Australian mainland at Maralinga near Woomera.

I copied the list from  the Britain's Small Wars website, and I have no doubt that there are other deployments that need mentioned.  I think the list was specifically army deployments so there are no doubt purely RAF  and RN items to be added.   Keep contributing, people!

Quote from: Rheged on February 13, 2023, 01:53:34 AMI copied the list from  the Britain's Small Wars website, and I have no doubt that there are other deployments that need mentioned.  I think the list was specifically army deployments so there are no doubt purely RAF  and RN items to be added.   Keep contributing, people!

Some of the pubs near Woolwich Barracks according to my Uncle Chris whilst doing his national service 

On and off concentration about keeping the P-47 reserved for Europe in WW 3. That it was better suited to ground attack was clearly proven in WW 2. An impression that would be only shaken by the Corsair's war record in Korea and the A-1.

Israeli F-84G's during '56 Sinai operations. (Yes I know the French used IDF markings of convenience).

Israeli F-47s (which they wanted) in place of the P-51

IDF Sabre 6

Polish Mig-19S

Belgian F-89

Belgian Vautour IIN