Quote from: Spino on March 07, 2023, 11:04:26 AMNot sure what I'll do with the inner pylons yet, maybe more JDAMs or something.......

Harrier and Sea Harrier almost always flew with external fuel tanks, except for air shows and such.  With any type of realistic loadout, she will need the fuel tanks.  The centerline station was not plumbed for fuel.  Sea Harrier only had 5,000+ pounds of gas.   

Conformal tanks?  Or tank, above the wings. 

Interesting idea. However, I decided to go down the road of using the Airfix  GR.9 as the basis for a naval version

With respect to the guns, I could never understand why the RAF didn't just put a pair of Mauser Bk.27s in old 30mm ADEN pods when the 25mm ADEN went off the rails. Then they'd have had compatibility with the Tornado fleet. The Germans even had a pod-mounted Bk.27 for the Alpha Jet A, so it was clearly possible in principle.

The USMC adopted the 30mm ADEN even though it was a non-US-standard calibre at the time* and seemed happy with it, so they'd probably just use it on this too.

Fun fact: there actually were extended-span 'ferry tips' designed and produced for the UK 1st gen Harrier fleet. They weren't as big as this and didn't add a pylon though. Not sure how often they were used and not sure if the USMC had them. The point was to improve cruise efficently on long ferry flights, rather than improve maneuverability.




*The AH-64 gun subsequently made ADEN ammo a US standard but that came later.

The most famous use of the harrier ferry tips was during the Trans-Atlantic Air Race in 1969. The fastest west-bound flight was by Sqd. Ldr. Lecky-Thompson flying a Harrier GR1 complete with ferry tips.

The aircraft, XV741, is at the Brooklands Museum and it has the ferry tips attached. 

Quote from: Weaver on March 14, 2023, 03:15:45 AM.......Fun fact: there actually were extended-span 'ferry tips' designed and produced for the UK 1st gen Harrier fleet. They weren't as big as this and didn't add a pylon though. Not sure how often they were used and not sure if the USMC had them. The point was to improve cruise efficently on long ferry flights, rather than improve maneuverability.

I recall that the ferry tips were more of a hassle than anything.  They were G limited, so any deployment required the bringing of the regular wing tips for actual use in theatre.  Some some added hassle for a small gain in ferry range.  Perhaps useful for a long ferry, but if you had dedicated tanker support via a tanker drag (common for long cross ocean transits) and the probe bolted on it really didn't matter.   

Quote from: Weaver on March 14, 2023, 03:15:45 AMWith respect to the guns, I could never understand why the RAF didn't just put a pair of Mauser Bk.27s in old 30mm ADEN pods when the 25mm ADEN went off the rails. Then they'd have had compatibility with the Tornado fleet. The Germans even had a pod-mounted Bk.27 for the Alpha Jet A, so it was clearly possible

Probably embarassment and, loss of face. As I understand it, no attempt was  made to integrate the humble, yet reliable 30mm ADEN with the Harrier GR.5 and later versions which were intended to recieve the new ADEN 25. Of course, as we all know it didn't work and, no attempt was made to retrofit the older weapon. I daresay the GAU-12 25mm cannon fitted to the AV-8B might have been a viable alternative but, again, never adopted.

Quote from: zenrat on March 12, 2023, 06:06:40 AMConformal tanks?  Or tank, above the wings. 

That's an interesting idea.  I could try something like that, but I might have to 3D print it.  The Harrier's wings had to be removed to get at the engine anyway, so a CFT on top of that probably wouldn't make much of a difference.  I may end up 3D printing Aero 1D drop tanks for it too, the existing fuel tanks look a bit too small to me.  I haven't had a lot of time to work on it lately, but I should have a couple more pics coming soon.  I still need to putty and sand the outer wing panels to get rid of the ridges on the underside, and make my laser-guided rocket pods.

Here are the APKWS pods.  They turned out rather well under the circumstances.  Printed in PLA, I still need to sand them down a bit and paint them.  Getting the stripes right won't be easy.  I somehow managed to fit 8 rounds within the dimensions of the LAU-68 7 shot pod when I designed it.  I may re-print with 7 instead, not sure yet.You cannot view this attachment.

I can post the STL files for them if anyone wants to print their own.  I designed them full-size and then printed them at 2% of full size (1:48 approximately) to match the scale of the Harrier.

I decided to make some 7 shot rocket pods in addition to the 8 shot pods I just printed.  I'll decide which ones look better and go from there, this is a what-if after all!  Got some larger fuel tanks printing too, as close as I can get to the Aero 1D tanks used by the Harrier II.

3D printing really does open up vast opportunities for those with the skills and equipment.

On UK TV (The Yesterday Channel) they've been having a series about Hornby and one of the recent ones covered the installation of their new 3 printing kit and initial test runs. What surprised me most was the cost, it was nowhere near as much as I would have thought. I must admit I still struggle with how long print runs take and whilst I can see it's use when it comes to prototypes, which is what I think Hornby will use theirs for, I can't see it being economical when it comes to production runs, but that will undoubtedly change in the future.

It may be worthwhile economically for people like Colin Frieghtdog who are making numbers of small items. Then many of them could be printed at the same time, located in different area of the platen.

Perhaps someone in the business would like to comment on that? 

Well I was 3D-printing some scale models of the A-12 Avenger II for a what-if modernized Essex long hull class carrier that I'm making, in the same print job as those rocket pods.  My Aero 1D fuel tanks are printing with another set of A-12s too.  Definitely doable as long as the print area is big enough.  Newer printers are a bit faster too.

When it comes to 3D printing I can see the benefits of a model company like Hornby or Airfix making a model in 3D ..it was called rapid prototyping and that's where the benefits would be.
Making a model first in a CAD program and then printing it might takes several hours but then it's done..any mods needed can be easily fixed and the model reprinted...what would take weeks or months van now be done in weeks.
With CNC machines being as advanced as they are now with CNC machines up to 36 axis machining abilities molds can be cut with extreme speed .
4 and 5 axis CNC machines would still be used of course as the monster machines are not everywhere and cost a bucket load to buy.
Check out Titans of CNC Machining on YouTube..those guys do amazing things with their machines and yip they have a 32 or 36 axis CNC machine.
Say you want a brand new super detailed Buccaneer in 48th ..draw one in CAD ..every single part can be drawn and yep that will take a few weeks I'll bet for sure but then you just load the files onto a USB stick ..plug it in and let the printer go to work.
As Spino said the printers are getting much faster and the newest ones can print with amazing detail .
At the end of the day money and time matters and you can't beat a 3D printer for that.

Got a quick update.  Dry-fitted the main landing gear and added the APKWS pods.  Still waiting on the fuel tanks to finish printing so I can see how they look.  Paintjob is very WIP, but I'm happy with how it's turning out so far.  Not sure about adding a conformal fuel tank like someone suggested, I feel like that's a bit over the top.  A spine maybe with a bit more fuel and some more electronics?  Still considering a modified nose for an APG-79 radar, but we'll see.

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