Bringing this thread up because there is a group on Facebook of which i'm one of the moderators. The page is dedicated to PoAF models and one of the members recently posted a beautiful Mirage III in the anti-radiation dark green overall scheme which the PoAF started using on most aircraft in service in the Guinea-Bissau area, after the Soviet Strela SAMs claimed their first victims during the Colonial war.
There are many PoAF war veterans in the group and everyone liked it and no JMNs came out to troll...
But today i saw the following comment which i'll translate: "Now that's a what if how it's supposed to be... done with criteria and historical base." BTW, this comment came from someone who doesn't build what-ifs.
The way i see it, this is a way of complimenting this model while being snarky to all other what ifs that aren't done that way so, as a mod, i tried to make him see that the freedom is absolute in what if modelling and that is just one of the ways to create a what if. His response was funny, "Different opinions and vision"...
I then proceeded to show how his comment was demeaning of whifs that aren't built with that type of context and that what i'm asking is for him to keep his comments respectful of every and any type of build posted there. He could've simply complimented what he liked on that build... instead he preferred to compliment it but while implying he knows the rules by saying "that's the proper way", when he really has no clue of what it's all about and doesn't accept other views. I see that as arrogance and and subversive behaviour so i just asked him to keep it to himself next time and ended the conversation there.
Why should there be a "proper" way to do it?  What would be of our species if we never asked ourselves that question... " What if...?"
I admit, his comment offended me, yes. I've been modelling since 2014 and i have 3 or 4 "real world" models in the more than 30 models i've built so far so, yes, it offended me because i think it's not respecting some of the work done by me and so many others around the world... so, No, not having it!

Don't justify him so much, it is just his way to watch on that whatif subject, and it is just his way to tell that he liked it ,
so it is what I understand ( I'm not native English speaking ) .

For us it is normal to have IDEAS what to create  , that's what i have all my lifetime in different ways  .
 Some other people can be irritated by that.

Doggy mate I'm with ya right there.
There is no proper way to do anything in the model world because of many many things and the different ways those things are done .
Even in the what I call the OTB world ..you take for example 10 identical models ...say Airfix MK5 Spitfires. Get ten people to build wm all using the exact same everything..tools. paint..brushes and have them build those kits step by step following a instructor..I'll bet once finished every one will be different..no proper way ..just our way .
For the wallys who can't get what ifs there's one simple question you can ask em mate.
What if man never asked themselves what if ? ..we'd sure as hell wouldn't be where we are now thats for sure .
With out those two little words this world wouldn't exist..it's as simple as that .
I will admit it's the arrogant ones who ranks their self importance above everyone else's which really piss me off...their opinions are so important to themselves that they consider it more correct than a qualified professional and because of that what ever they say has to be listened to and without question..I had to much of that on armorama and man most of those guys didn't even know what a sense of humor was.
Ppl with closed minds and are self opinionated are a huge pain for ppl like us and trying to open their minds is much easier with a shotgun..other than that mate your just wasting your time .

Quote from: killnoizer on April 16, 2023, 11:57:17 AMDon't justify him so much, it is just his way to watch on that whatif subject, and it is just his way to tell that he liked it ,
so it is what I understand ( I'm not native English speaking ) .

For us it is normal to have IDEAS what to create  , that's what i have all my lifetime in different ways  .
 Some other people can be irritated by that.

Well, i don't think i justified him, if anything, it's pretty much the other way around. He's saying that what if models that are not based on historic facts or aircraft that existed are not proper what ifs and i think that's wrong because, it's saying that models like mine and yours and a lot of other people's are not proper what ifs... i disagree so, i stand by what i believe in.
Being a moderator on the group, one of my responsibilities is to keep an eye on trolls and to me, that guy was being one because if he feels irritated by models that don't conform to his criteria, that's HIS problem, not the group's problem so he should keep it to himself.
If he doesn't know how to deal with it and accept that others are free to do things how they want to, too bad and again, HIS problem.
And above all, i don't even think it's about different views, i think it's a fact that what if modelling has no rules so, opinions are like the holes at the bottom of our backs, everyone has one, but that doesn't mean we should go out in public showing off our own...

Quote from: Wardukw-NZ on April 16, 2023, 12:51:28 PMDoggy mate I'm with ya right there.
There is no proper way to do anything in the model world because of many many things and the different ways those things are done .
Even in the what I call the OTB world ..you take for example 10 identical models ...say Airfix MK5 Spitfires. Get ten people to build wm all using the exact same everything..tools. paint..brushes and have them build those kits step by step following a instructor..I'll bet once finished every one will be different..no proper way ..just our way .
For the wallys who can't get what ifs there's one simple question you can ask em mate.
What if man never asked themselves what if ? ..we'd sure as hell wouldn't be where we are now thats for sure .
With out those two little words this world wouldn't exist..it's as simple as that .
I will admit it's the arrogant ones who ranks their self importance above everyone else's which really piss me off...their opinions are so important to themselves that they consider it more correct than a qualified professional and because of that what ever they say has to be listened to and without question..I had to much of that on armorama and man most of those guys didn't even know what a sense of humor was.
Ppl with closed minds and are self opinionated are a huge pain for ppl like us and trying to open their minds is much easier with a shotgun..other than that mate your just wasting your time .

Yep, i agree, with some it's a waste of time trying to open their minds a bit but some people have open minds and actually enjoy being educated so, i feel i should always try at least once, but if that doesn't do it, i'll move on very easily. That's why i quickly ended the conversation after showing that he wasn't respecting everyone who does things differently from what he thinks is correct. All i asked was for him to consider that there are different opinions and all should be respected in the group and, to try keeping that in mind when commenting.
He seemed to get the message and didn't answer back after my request. I don't want to antagonize him or start a virtual fight, on the contrary, i just wanted to show that there's more than what he sees, hoping he would understand where his comment should've been kept to the model in question. The "proper what-if" bit should've simply been "the kind of what if i like".

Technically speaking his comment is totally null and void because the simple fact of the matter is there is no such thing as a "proper what if" .
Everyone is a figment of the builders imagination brought to life in plastic.
Making a comment like that shows his stupidity to be on quite a high level .
Baseing any what if build in any form of reality shows a total lack of understanding of what a what if build actually is .
You did right Dogman by just shutting this dude down and closing the door in his face in a very diplomatic way  because I'm pretty sure this is the sort of (very naughty word) who'd go on and on about how right his opinion is ...not worth the hassle.
The ppl who have open minds are well worth spending time with ..they ask good questions and with the genuine interest in our hoddy makes them a pleasure to talk to..it's just a shame on my part I've not many if any at all like that .
That's not surprising here in NZ as it is a pretty small community here but that's fine as I have this group of nuttas here to yap to 

Well, i am a moderator in the group so i have to do my best to keep things civilized and set an example with my conduct so, i took this as smoothly as i could and it helped that he didn't keep going on about it. Like i said before, all i asked for is respect, even if he doesn't agree with the fact that there are no rules for what if models.
Sadly, somehow i'm almost sure i'll see something similar from the same guy on other Portuguese modelling groups we're both on and in which i'm not a moderator... we'll see if he really got it when i get the PoAF Hunter finished...

Quote from: DogfighterZen on April 16, 2023, 07:15:15 PMWell, i am a moderator in the group so i have to do my best to keep things civilized and set an example with my conduct so, i took this as smoothly as i could and it helped that he didn't keep going on about it.

I know the feeling   

Yeah you and Chris share the same office mate ..ya gotta be diplomatic and fare at the same time as being strong to enforce the rules so ya don't appear to be some sort of overlord like other moderators im sure are out there .
I have to admit that I'm glad we have great guys here taking care and keeping the rest of us head cases in line 

I was accused, during my Alternate Spitfire days, by a certain member of this site, of not doing "proper" what ifs, as many of Spitfires were really subtle ones.

Quote from: DogfighterZen on April 16, 2023, 05:07:36 PMYep, i agree, with some it's a waste of time trying to open their minds a bit but some people have open minds and actually enjoy being educated so, i feel i should always try at least once, but if that doesn't do it, i'll move on very easily. That's why i quickly ended the conversation after showing that he wasn't respecting everyone who does things differently from what he thinks is correct. All i asked was for him to consider that there are different opinions and all should be respected in the group and, to try keeping that in mind when commenting.
He seemed to get the message and didn't answer back after my request. I don't want to antagonize him or start a virtual fight, on the contrary, i just wanted to show that there's more than what he sees, hoping he would understand where his comment should've been kept to the model in question. The "proper what-if" bit should've simply been "the kind of what if i like".

Had a couple of similar cases with my pictures at FlickR, e.g. when people who came across them accused me of lying (because they found the unrelated pic via web search and took it for real, bragging in other forums "look what I've found, did you know that..." and then being accused THEMSELVES of fooling other [serious] forum members) or wanted to tell me what I had done from their (the only true) perspective. I just replied to them that all these were fictional creations, that I was not responsible for others' feelings about them, and then put then on the "blocked" list because any other form of discussion is futile. One of them even threatened me to "unfriend" me - not that I had ever asked for this attention... 

Ya just can't win sometimes can ya Lee..one wally tried to pull the proper wiff crap with Doggy dude and you get it cause it wasn't enough of a wiff..wall meet head 

@ Chris, Phil- It's amazing how some people will go out of their way just to show how small minded they are, isn't it? 
Still, i find it sad that they can't understand something so simple... we're talking about plastic models! And some grown ups can be much worse than any 5 year old kid in that sense so i really have to do my best at trying to set an example and help keep things running smoothly but i did have to fight the urge to be sarcastic...

   Lee, what surprises me more is the fact that it happened to you here... Do these people really think they can change our minds or ways of doing whifs with their whining?     

Thomas, i'd love to see the look on those poor devils' faces when they realized the models were what ifs...    And the funniest thing is that you have the full description on every pic on Flickr, correct? Anyway, like some wise person said: "The only infinite things are the universe and human stupidity..." And he wasn't sure about the universe...

Zen mate when it have ppl like that to deal with I go into several modes ..sarcastic..bluntly rude ..don't care or the most fun one is the baffling them with BS .
Running them around in circles with BS which is said in a way to make sound as convincing as possible .
I then put on my engineering hat and turn crap into nearly believable bullocks 
The info or better known pile of bullocks has to come thick and fast cause if it's slow it doesn't sound convincing 😉
I've had ppl who had no clue dew to their arrogance believing that they now had a clue which is 100 percent crap ..I do call it a double set trigger..im the first trigger pull..their stupidity is the second trigger pull and then bang ..they try being all smart and up themselves only to be shot down but someone else who knows far more than them..damn good fun matey 😄

There are those of us in the UK SIG who still marvel at Dave Kitsbasher's conversation with a non-believer over his AEW Wellington (or was it a 'Mistel' Hurricane-Wellington combo?) at Telford one year. 

The poor guy stood NO chance, Dave was so authoritive (comes from being at ATCO at some time maybe?) that he had him 100% believing in the tale, and there was a large 'WhatIf' sign right next door to the model as well!           

Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 17, 2023, 11:34:14 PMThere are those of us in the UK SIG who still marvel at Dave Kitsbasher's conversation with a non-believer over his AEW Wellington (or was it a 'Mistel' Hurricane-Wellington combo?) at Telford one year. 

The poor guy stood NO chance, Dave was so authoritive (comes from being at ATCO at some time maybe?) that he had him 100% believing in the tale, and there was a large 'WhatIf' sign right next door to the model as well!           

Ahhh it would seem that Brother Dave has thr same ideas I do when it comes to wallys...I wish had I been there Kit cause this sounds plain brilliant 😄
I do get this impression that the wallys don't think we know a damn site more than just how to build models .
It's like the moment we leave the show we dissappear into some strange alternative universe where only model builders live and that's all we do..I am seriously still surprised by ppl like this who's lives are sheltered to the point of the extreme.