Quote from: Wardukw-NZ on April 17, 2023, 02:33:37 AMIf that's the case then I'm all good and can shut up now 

  

    

Quote from: kitbasher on April 16, 2023, 02:18:27 PM

Quote from: Weaver on April 16, 2023, 02:10:14 PMThe problem with a 12 month Finish It GB is that someone could simply start a build in January, pause it for a month in June, then either just post it on their blog thread and not get a prize, or enter it in the FIGB and get a prize, despite the fact that it was never really 'stalled'.

My primary reason for suggesting some means of giving stalled build a second chance was the perverse incentive to pass them over for something new that's generated by the current GB system, so here's an idea: the Finish It GB is ONLY open to builds that have previously been posted on the forum, with pictures, but which didn't get finished for some reason. The link to the old build thread and an 'as stalled' picture must be posted in the entrant's intial FIGB post and in their FIGB Finished Builds thread entry. That way the voters can see what the state of the build was before it was put in for the FIGB and how long it's been stalled, and make a judgement accordingly.

Nice idea, I like it.  Though perhaps entries shouldn't be from that year's GB 'season', otherwise basically it's like having a three-month extension.  Speaking of which, an FIGB wouldn't warrant the traditional two-week extension, that would just be extracting the Michael.

So, say this became a reality.  What I've just suggested would mean that the 2023-2024 FIGB could only include unfinished builds from the 2022-2023 season.  Transfer the build thread from the original GB to the FIGB?  Possibly - that would at least prevent the number of threads growing like Topsy. 

Yeah, fair point: the last progess on a stalled build should have been at least 12 months before it's entered in the FIGB, whether it was actually in a GB or not.

Right, so I can my brain around this, if I read things correctly then we are starting to see two distinct points of view emerge ?

1) Part started kits should be allowed to take part in a GB ?

2) Unfinished builds from previous GB's can be entered in a separate GB ( The Finnish it GB) and that would run the length of a GB season, usually 12 months ?

Is that correct or have I misunderstood things ?

Chris

Quote from: NARSES2 on April 17, 2023, 07:16:40 AMRight, so I can my brain around this, if I read things correctly then we are starting to see two distinct points of view emerge ?

1) Part started kits should be allowed to take part in a GB ?

2) Unfinished builds from previous GB's can be entered in a separate GB ( The Finnish it GB) and that would run the length of a GB season, usually 12 months ?

Is that correct or have I misunderstood things ?

Chris

My feelings are;

1). No started kits allowed as GB entries. Not to preclude junkyard kits from being used for parts. 

2). A "Finish It" GB not restricted to abandoned GB entries but any kit that had already been posted in the forum but subsequently relegated to the Shelf Of Doom. 

Quote from: AeroplaneDriver on April 17, 2023, 07:46:38 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on April 17, 2023, 07:16:40 AMRight, so I can my brain around this, if I read things correctly then we are starting to see two distinct points of view emerge ?

1) Part started kits should be allowed to take part in a GB ?

2) Unfinished builds from previous GB's can be entered in a separate GB (The Finish it GB) and that would run the length of a GB season, usually 12 months ?

Is that correct or have I misunderstood things ?

Chris

My feelings are;

1). No started kits allowed as GB entries. Not to preclude junkyard kits from being used for parts. 

2). A "Finish It" GB not restricted to abandoned GB entries but any kit that had already been posted in the forum but subsequently relegated to the Shelf Of Doom. 

As a former ATCO it galls me to agree with an airframe driver ( gasp!), but yes what Nick says - no started kits allowed as GB entries but scrapped kits yes.  A completed or part build can be 'reduced to produce' to render it eligible for a GB but that needs to be done ahead of the GB beginning (and may need the Mod's nod).  'Finish It' GB eligibility not restricted to abandoned GB entries - happy either way tbh, but yes already posted on the forum somewhere. 

But I would add that if they're abandoned GB entries then I stand by my earlier comment (as agreed by Weaver) that the last progess on a stalled build should have been at least 12 months before it's entered, whether it was actually in a GB or not.  Otherwise it's barely a 'shelf queen' (hell, I've a real world Phantom I started work on 20+ years ago and a 1-Week GB build from about 7 years ago crying out to be finished!). 

Oh, and yes as Chris suggests it could run as a 'background' GB for the whole of the GB 'year' but no scope for an extension.  Would there be a poll and would the top three entries be eligible for automatic entry for The Whiffies?  Discuss.

I think the 'FIGB' idea overtakes to quite an extent what I was contemplating about Themed Builds.  If the future of Themed Builds warrants dicussion then it preferably should be the subject of a separate thread.

Quote from: NARSES2 on April 17, 2023, 07:16:40 AMRight, so I can my brain around this, if I read things correctly then we are starting to see two distinct points of view emerge ?

1) Part started kits should be allowed to take part in a GB ?

2) Unfinished builds from previous GB's can be entered in a separate GB ( The Finnish it GB) and that would run the length of a GB season, usually 12 months ?

Is that correct or have I misunderstood things ?

Chris

This is correct.
A trial period should be permitted and a final vote at the end of the period. If its AYE then it will be integrated into the GB rules,  if its NAY then it gets rejected and buried.

Similarly shocked to agree with an ATCO,       but I like the idea of any "Finish It" GB be limited to kits posted but with no progress for at least 12 months. 

Quote from: AeroplaneDriver on April 17, 2023, 07:46:38 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on April 17, 2023, 07:16:40 AMRight, so I can my brain around this, if I read things correctly then we are starting to see two distinct points of view emerge ?

1) Part started kits should be allowed to take part in a GB ?

2) Unfinished builds from previous GB's can be entered in a separate GB ( The Finnish it GB) and that would run the length of a GB season, usually 12 months ?

Is that correct or have I misunderstood things ?

Chris

My feelings are;

1). No started kits allowed as GB entries. Not to preclude junkyard kits from being used for parts. 

2). A "Finish It" GB not restricted to abandoned GB entries but any kit that had already been posted in the forum but subsequently relegated to the Shelf Of Doom. 

Yes, I think this is the best solution. Conditions of entry to the FIGB should be:

1. The build was previously posted, with pictures, on the forum (not neccessarily in a GB).

2. The last work on the build should have occurred more than 12 months before it's entered in the FIGB.

3. The first post for the re-started build on the FIGB board should include a NEW progress-so-far pic, and that pic should be posted together with final pics in the FIGB's 'Finished Builds' thread.

Quote from: Weaver on April 17, 2023, 11:44:40 AM

Quote from: AeroplaneDriver on April 17, 2023, 07:46:38 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on April 17, 2023, 07:16:40 AMRight, so I can my brain around this, if I read things correctly then we are starting to see two distinct points of view emerge ?

1) Part started kits should be allowed to take part in a GB ?

2) Unfinished builds from previous GB's can be entered in a separate GB ( The Finnish it GB) and that would run the length of a GB season, usually 12 months ?

Is that correct or have I misunderstood things ?

Chris

My feelings are;

1). No started kits allowed as GB entries. Not to preclude junkyard kits from being used for parts. 

2). A "Finish It" GB not restricted to abandoned GB entries but any kit that had already been posted in the forum but subsequently relegated to the Shelf Of Doom. 

Yes, I think this is the best solution. Conditions of entry to the FIGB should be:

1. The build was previously posted, with pictures, on the forum (not neccessarily in a GB).

2. The last work on the build should have occurred more than 12 months before it's entered in the FIGB.

3. The first post for the re-started build on the FIGB board should include a NEW progress-so-far pic, and that pic should be posted together with final pics in the FIGB's 'Finished Builds' thread.

Sounds good to me, Weaver old chap.

Thanks gents. I'm starting to get my thoughts in order, and happily they are ones I think I can/could quite happily go along with.

I still want to mull things over, so my plan of getting back to you all with revised "rules" is still around end of the month.

Chris

I think we are complicating things for the sake of complicating them and there is a lot of extra work being created for Chris.

How broken down is broken down?  Can i just pull the engines off or do I have to reduce it to component parts?

Why not just say part started kits are eligible for inclusion in a GB (either as the basis for the whole build or as parts of a kitbash) at the Moderators discretion and let the individual mods for the GB decide on a case by case basis.  This is basically what we have been doing anyway.  I know for sure when i've been modding a GB i've been asked to allow, and given permission to, partially built stuff.  If the mods can decide what we are allowed to build by micromanaging the scope (i'm still annoyed mail wasn't allowed in the logistics GB) then this isn't a new and extra power.

No part started kits in the one week GB.

I have a feeling a year long finish it GB will start off strong, go very quiet for 9 months and then finish in a frenzy with more than a few of the unfinished builds still unfinished.

Which brings me to my last thought.  How many bites at the cherry will an unfinished/part started* build be allowed?


*can anyone define the difference between an unfinished build and a part started build?

Quote from: zenrat on April 18, 2023, 05:59:04 AMWhy not just say part started kits are eligible for inclusion in a GB (either as the basis for the whole build or as parts of a kitbash) at the Moderators discretion and let the individual mods for the GB decide on a case by case basis.  This is basically what we have been doing anyway. 

As someone who's been keeping an eye on GB's for many a year whilst staying in the background when it comes to the actual management of a GB, then yes this is what has been happening either by default or permission. It's just one of the thoughts that are getting put into the pot to mull over.

Thankyou Fred for expressing it so eloquently, as I said to a member quite recently "it saves my typing finger some work"

Chris

Quote from: zenrat on April 18, 2023, 05:59:04 AMWhich brings me to my last thought.  How many bites at the cherry will an unfinished/part started* build be allowed?

I'd say just the once.  Choose entries wisely, young padewans!

And no extension to a FIGB.

FIGBs could become annual events - the polar opposite of the 1-week GBs in terms of duration.

Part-started
Either the cockpit or wings and landing gear have been assembled.

Unfinished
Cockpit, fuselage, engines, wings,landing gear and tail glued. Painting,  tyres and propellers need to added along with aerials and decals if its an aircraft.

It's down to the Mods to decide on each individual build as I too have been granted that power but not allocated a GB yet.