Leduc Ramjets aircrafts...

[Deltafan]

...
Mirage IV four engined bomber (4 atar underwings)
...

Hello, I'm new here. I don't speak very good english, but I like prototypes and I knew a little bit of french prototypes. For a time I have a question in a french forum about the Mirage IV with 4 engines but no answers (nobody knew...)

Have you informations or pictures about this project (and maybe pictures of Mirage F3 too) ?

Have you informations too about canadian engines Orenda for french projects ?

[Deltafan]

About the Leduc planes, do you know the book :

RENE LEDUC, pionnier de la propulsion à réaction (Jean Lacroze and Philippe Ricco, collection Docavia, éditions Larivière)?

There is some pictures of Leduc projects : pages 176, 215, 216, 250, 251, 252, 253.

There are : Leduc 030 (1951, twin tails for Tophe), Leduc 050 (1956, two projects) and early projects of Leduc from 1934 to 1939

[Tophe]

As far as I am concerned, I know this Docavia book. I had it in hand before giving it to Lark, and got several photocopies, including the twin-fuselage great one, yes . Alas, I fear this expensive  book will be in Achie's shelf only in 2007: impossible for him to buy the Docavia collection all at once...    

[elmayerle]

Have you informations too about canadian engines Orenda for french projects ?

As far as I know, the only documented French interest in Orenda engines was in obtaining Iroquois engines to use in place of J75s on the Mirage IVB.

[Archibald]

Archie is back...
- Special hobby 1/72 scale Vautour? fantastic!!! hope we will see it soon... I've got plenty of things to do with it (I want three of them!!!)
elmayerle you're right for the Iroquois. I saw this myth concerning 300 Iroquois for France...
The real story is: when the Mirage IV A flew in 1959, it was only considered as an interim type because of it small size and short range (2500km is weak to strike USSR from France). So, an enlarged version was planned, the Mirage IVB. It was a scale *2 Mirage IVA
- 57 tons
- 28m long
- 5000km range
- 130m2 wing area
SNECMA was unable to made a 12 tons thrust turbojet, so a foreign engine was needed. four of them were studied
- RB-142 (medway, spey ancestor)
- Olympus
- J-75
and... PS-13 Iroquois!!!
RB-142 and PS-13 were quickly dropped (too early stage of development) so the
J-75 and Olympus were finalists.
The winner was the J-75 with 13000kgp of thrust. This was the end of the Mirage IVB, because De Gaulle can't stand foreign engines for the French nuclear deterrent... so the small Mirage IVA was chosen (with French engine) and the range problem was solved by the C-135FR.
The Mirage IVB was partially built between march and september 1959... and never completed
Tophe sorryto be a  young and poor student
Deltafan if you are interested in Mirage IV there's a good website http://www.mirage4p.com/slides/Historique/.../NEWhisto2.html
The 4*atar Mirage IV was an option to extend range, as the IVB. It was a brief study because it was too far from the IVA; at the time DeGaulle wanted the nuclear deterrent in 1964, so a close derivative (two engines) of the IVA was better...  

[Deltafan]

Thanks Elmayerle and Archibald for the answers and the website !  


OK for the Iroquois (and the myth)  

I knew a great part of the Mirage IV story but I had always only a few about the 4 engines Mirage IV  

If somebody has a 4 engines Mirage IV pictures (and/or a picture of the Mirage F3) in the future...    

[Archibald]

Delta Fan i'm a great fan of the Mirage family, too. And the most obscure member of this family is clearly the Mirage F2 and F3... First, the Mirage F2 flew in june 1966. I'm seeking datas about flight program and the demise of the prototype... and found nothing! WHERE IS THE MIRAGE F2 PROTOTYPE? I asked the question in key publishing, on Dassault website... no lcear answer. This plane is totally forgotten...
The Mirage F3 was the single seat, interceptor variant of the F2. He compet with the smaller and lighter F1 (with a french atar 9k-50 engine) so the F1 was chosen instead (for unclear reasons). According to a website there was apparently various Mirage F3 in completion at the time the F1 was chosen...
look here http://www.stratisc.org/strat_053_Carlier.html#Note3
Apparently they say that "Abandon du programme intercepteur et arrêt des Mirage F-3 en construction (3 = 3) 75 millions ont été dépensés de 1966 à 1967"
So various Mirage F3 were built, but none was completed... very interesting!

[Deltafan]

Thanks Archibald !  


I did not know the "various" Mirage(s) F-3  

As for the Mirage F-2, I have read elsewhere (where ? when ?) that it was at Dassault in Toulouse  


I will try to find where I have read this  



Regards

Deltafan


Edit : I have found one :

Ian Allan limited
Modern combat aircraft 23 : MIRAGE, Paul Jackson
Chapter 3, page 77

"... the Mirage F-2 was not developped and its airframe is now preserved at Toulouse. ..."

But it's not where I have read where it stay...

[Archibald]

Merde alors! I have heard of that; the Mirage F2 is in Toulouse, but not in Dassault, more in a kind of scientific test center (can't remember which). I have to search that in Key Publishing old threads...  

[Archibald]

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthrea...light=Mirage+F2
Voila! I have ask about the Mirage F2 on Key Publishing, and a guy name Vega ECM tell me that the F2 was in the CEAT in toulouse. The CEAT is the place were structures are tested to their limit (to the destruction)  

[Deltafan]

OK, CQFD !    

[Archibald]

I have post a new thread on key publishing... waiting for the results...  

[Archibald]

Narses 2 when you'll build your Vautour kit I really want to see it!!! Hope you'll do it soon!!!