General Dynamics Type 200

[Thorvic]

One of the Germany Companies possibly Dornier did have the rights to build Harrier as did Fiat for Italy, just they decided they wanted to go with a larger supersonic aircraft rather than make do with the Harrier. When the technology didn't seem as mature as they wanted they cancelled the program instead.

To be honest it probably would have been wiser to settle on the Harrier in the close air support role for initial deployment and then work with the UK & US on a larger more capable replacement. (The AV-8B being more an upgraded harrier due to limited funds to push the technology).

G

[Archibald]

Well Tony Buttler book clearly show how evolved Harrier  would look... Never realised that from P.1126 (the drakken-looking thing with 8 RB-108) to the end, in 1992, Hawker studied roughly 120 V/STOL projects...    

[elmayerle]

Now that's an interesting thought, a pan-NATO Harrier consortium of Hawker-Siddeley, Breguet, Dornier, Fiat, and Northrop.  Apparently all the licenses for production were in place (I know Northrop had the one for the US and transferred it to McDD-St. Louis so the USMC could get the Harrier).

[Archibald]

This would fit nicely into my alt- french aircraft industry scenario, in which Breguet and Sud Aviation stay on track against Dassault, at least until the mid-70's...

Breguet would specialised in naval fighters (Br.1100M, Br.1120, licence-build Harriers for the Arromanche old carrier   , naval trainer to replace the Zephyr...)
Sud Aviation (Aerospatiale after 1970 and mergingin with Nord) would specialised in heavy fighters and bombers (SO-4060 and Tsiklon "Super-Vautour") and licence-building of foreign aircrafts (F-5 and A-7).

The R.97 Arromanche was a Colossus-class carrier which was used by the Aeronavale until 1976 (commando carrier from 1970, with choppers only). Would it be possible to modify it like the Hermes, to carry Breguet Harriers ?    

[elmayerle]

I don't see any reason why it couldn't be so modified.

[Archibald]

To the British fellows, how much modified was Hermes  to carry Harriers in 1982 ? was the deck reinforced or something like that ?  
I'm truly amazed by Hermes long-lasting life... this ship must not be scrapped...  

[RLBH]

To the British fellows, how much modified was Hermes  to carry Harriers in 1982 ? was the deck reinforced or something like that ?  
I'm truly amazed by Hermes long-lasting life... this ship must not be scrapped...

Given that, once upon a time, she carried Buccaneers and Sea Vixens, so I don't imagine that major works were much beyond adding the ski jump. Probably all sorts of minor works like replacing the wiring on the port side of deck three aft of frame 57, or similarly dull things.

I may be wrong, of course.

[Zen]

From memory her deck was strengthend to take 50,000lb aircraft, her deck edge lift 37,000lb aircaft and I think her inboard lift was around 40,000lb.
All this in the 1950's, along with all the other major changes that made her a class of her own compared to the rest of the Centaur class CV's.

[Archibald]

My idea
-detailed here http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...showtopic=16421 -
was to change Centaur-class carriers into Sea Control ships in the early 70's. Then I thought that, had Breguet survived after 1967, they could have licence-build Harriers for the AdA (instead of Jaguar) then the Aeronavale (for Clemenceaus AND Arromanche).  
A Sea Control Ship Arromanche    
Air group based on Super Frelon (2) Lynx (8 or 10) and Harriers (10)...

[Archibald]

n fact while travelling by train two days ago I've realised that this GD project could have been the perfect "compromise" for USMC.

I mean, it's a a cross between a F-18 and an AV-8B... It has mach 2 speed and sparrow similar to F-18As, and V/STOL like the Harrier.

I've found a thread on this forum, where Sentinel Chicken has imagined a carrier based on an USMC amphibious ship. This design had catapults and S-3 Vikings on its flight deck (not exactly what I want here) but at least he proved that a Tarawa-based carrier was feasible.
Such ship would have been more "acceptable" for USN, as it would have been less expensive, and tailored for USMC...
Build more Tarawa hulls and finish them as CVS or SCS...   (I've to check wikipedia for class of USN amphibious ships, I'm a bit confused on the subject!!)  

[Archibald]

Tarawa sounds good for a light carrier. Only five were build, albeit four more were planned. Last Tarawa was comissioned circa 1980, while first Wasp was comissioned in 1989 only. This let a gap for four more Tarawa hulls in the 80's... just in time for Reagan 600-navy ship program.

Here's an alternate timeline...

The Rockwell XVF-12 was chosen in January 1972. In fact competion had been opened only two months before, and it seems that the process was flawed from the start.
There was aparently a conflict between NAVAIR and NAVMAT, which explain why the General Dynamics study was funded after its defeat until SCS was scrapped in January 1974.

The "SCS interceptor" was to start its flight test program in march 1975, which meant 2 and half years from the drawing board to the prototype stage (the F-15 needed 3 years, the F-16 two years).

In brief, we have two XVF-13 prototypes in flight late 1976... seems this calendar allow Iranian funding of the program (for some more prototypes or FSD machines).  
General Dynamics decide to include a maximum of elements from the F-16 into the FV-13A (I think among components their cockpits and radar could be similar)

After the Islamic revolution the program is put on hold... until it is reactivated thanks to the 600-navy ships program. Four more Tarawa hulls are ordered as light carriers... (LCVS ?)

In page 1 of this thread the blurry pic show two AIM-7 mounted on the belly. I don't think its realistic, these AAMs may be fried by hot gases from both lift-jets and exhaust    
I'd prefer four AIM-7 below the wings, and two sidewinders on the wingtips... also got two drop tanks, all from a Phantom    

[Archibald]

Et voila! Found anthony P manifesto, here http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...topic=8042&st=0

Now I know what ship would host my FV-13A... Defiant CVH, that's the thing.