Spotswood and TSR 2

[uk 75]

Having now received all three of the Model Aircraft Monthly mags (June's is still on sale in Smiths) I am even more fascinated with the TSR2 saga and it relationship with the RAF as it actually panned out in the 70s.

The idea that a force of about 100 TSR2s would already need replacing by 1980 links with an article I read published by the RAF Historical Association about a seminar in the 90s on TSR2.  The RAF were faced with a front line in 1980 of TSR2s, Lightnings and Hunters, as TSR2 would gobble up all the money (no Phantoms and Harriers, possibly some Hercs).  Furthermore in order to have TSR2 all the Vulcans would have to go by 1972 or so.  Allowing for the withdrawals from East of Suez and later on from Cyprus(after Turkey's 1974 invasion), the TSR2 force would have been based solely in the UK (Coningsby and Marham apparently).

Looked at like this it is not hard to see why the RAF opted to keep Vulcans and get Phantoms (widely regarded in 1962 onwards as a great plane). It did not particularly want the Harrier, and would also have preferred more Phantoms to the Jaguar order.

BAC (formerly Vickers and English Electric) already had designs for planes remarkably like the Tornado, so it had no interest in dieing in a ditch for TSR2, or helping the RAF with F111.  The Anglo French Variable Geometry aircraft was a clever ruse to keep this work going into the late 60s.  Jaguar was also modified by BAC into the kind of close support aircraft the RAF had wanted to replace its Hunters.

Sadly, however good or bad TSR2 might have been in service, numbers count. However, I still would have liked to see an RAF in 1975 with TSR2s, HS1154s, and HS681s!

UK 75

[Aircav]

Thought the Jaguar was designed as a close support aircraft    

[Geoff_B]

Thought the Jaguar was designed as a close support aircraft  

Primary role was when conceived was to be an Advanced Trainer suitable for traing new pilots in the new supersonic jet aircraft coming into service. However the Jag turned out to be as complex as the aircraft it was supposed to be a trainer for so the order changed to single seaters and the Hawk requirement was created.

G

[Geoff_B]

Having now received all three of the Model Aircraft Monthly mags (June's is still on sale in Smiths) I am even more fascinated with the TSR2 saga and it relationship with the RAF as it actually panned out in the 70s.

The idea that a force of about 100 TSR2s would already need replacing by 1980 links with an article I read published by the RAF Historical Association about a seminar in the 90s on TSR2.  The RAF were faced with a front line in 1980 of TSR2s, Lightnings and Hunters, as TSR2 would gobble up all the money (no Phantoms and Harriers, possibly some Hercs).  Furthermore in order to have TSR2 all the Vulcans would have to go by 1972 or so.  Allowing for the withdrawals from East of Suez and later on from Cyprus(after Turkey's 1974 invasion), the TSR2 force would have been based solely in the UK (Coningsby and Marham apparently).

Looked at like this it is not hard to see why the RAF opted to keep Vulcans and get Phantoms (widely regarded in 1962 onwards as a great plane). It did not particularly want the Harrier, and would also have preferred more Phantoms to the Jaguar order.

BAC (formerly Vickers and English Electric) already had designs for planes remarkably like the Tornado, so it had no interest in dieing in a ditch for TSR2, or helping the RAF with F111.  The Anglo French Variable Geometry aircraft was a clever ruse to keep this work going into the late 60s.  Jaguar was also modified by BAC into the kind of close support aircraft the RAF had wanted to replace its Hunters.

Sadly, however good or bad TSR2 might have been in service, numbers count. However, I still would have liked to see an RAF in 1975 with TSR2s, HS1154s, and HS681s!

UK 75

Ralph the 1154 was to be the strike fighter to replace the hunter. It was kinda replaced by the Phantom and the Harrier, although really the Phantom was more a Javelin replacement and just provided a stop gap till the Jaguar entered service.

There was always the requirement for the Hunter replacement. The 1154 kinda got in the way of things as i think a VG airfraft was originally going to be the joint RAF/RN strike fighter, to replace the Sea Vixen,Hunter, Jag and Lighning (The Phantom was only ever a stop gap whilst we made up for the 1957 screw up, the RN were already eyeing what the USN were planning with the TFX although we would have to go with a smaller lighter type of aircraft more suitable to our Navy's carriers.

This VG aircraft looks to have started with Vickers following on from the initial work of Barnes Wallis into the type 583, then on under the BAC yoke to the AFVG, UKVG and finally Tornado. With the planned deletion of the carrier force the Naval fighter requirement was removed and with the cancellation of the TSR2 and then the F-111K its role was redefined into the deep strike mission that Tornado now does.

For some reason whilst the TSR2 saga is rather well covered the story of the Tornado never seams to cover the period pre TSR2 cancellation in any depth, yet its obvious that the same team developed the concept from the early 60's designs.

Cheers

G