Normandie Class in WW2

[tigercat]

The French seem to have a load of plans for their naval vessels online including  the Languedoc from the never completed Normandie class.

http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/02fonds-collections/banquedocuments/planbato/planbato/Plans/planbato.php?id=265


Say that the Normandie class got built and somehow survived to WW2 . What would they have looked like would they have been completely reconstructed like the Italian Battleships or just a new superstructure? New secondaries or retain the casemates due to lack of space? What AA outfit would they have had? Would the midships turret have survived?

[pyro-manic]

Removing the midships turret would upset the buoyancy etc unless you replaced it with something of equal weight - a turret would weigh at least several hundred tonnes - and the barbette may well have been an integral part of the ship's structure. So I think it would stay.

The biggest thing I can think of would be to move the mainmast. Several British classes had big problems with the spotting tops and smoke from the funnels. I'd say trunk the two funnels into one big stack where the rear one is a la Warspite, and add a nice tripod mast forward of that, maybe with a new superstructure later on. That boat platform between the funnels looks like it might have problems with blast when Q turret fired forward of the beam - might get removed or replaced with something more substantial.

As for the casemates, it would depend on how they were built. They're armoured, but if you could remove them you could put turrets in their place. I suspect the side casemates would get replaced with maybe three or four twin turrets each side (maybe a different calibre, more modern guns), depending on space. The front secondary guns get pulled and plated over - they're not hugely useful there, and would be swamped in a heavy sea. Same for the rear casemates - too wet and not much use, the same as the QE-class. Might get a slight "Atlantic bow" as well - she'd be quite wet forward anyway.

[rickshaw]

Removal of the casements would improve not only sea keeping but armoured integrity.  Casements were always a weak spot in such designs and also a danger from fire and explosion in the read-use lockers and the movement of ammunition to the guns through doors in the armour.

Removal of a turret, particularly a central one wouldn't necessarily upset buoyancy.   As you note, it might need replacement with something of comparable (or near comparable) weight though.  The central turrets could be replaced by a hangar and catapult, with ballast.

Your comments about the mainmast and spotting tops position is quite relevant.  There was considerable debate in the RN before and during WWI and unfortunately Beatty had a bad effect, insisting that the masts be placed behind the funnels, in the effluent from funnels, which rendered them almost uninhabitable on several ships, from a combination of heat and smoke.  It wasn't until after WWI this was corrected in many of the battleships and battle cruisers and may have contributed to some of the poor intelligence provided at the Battle of Jutland.

[sequoiaranger]

I couldn't open the linked website's tif pics of the Normandie-class BB's, but I have a drawing of them on my Furashita's Fleet website:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/lille_f.htm

I think removal of the central turret would be feasible, especially if the remaining guns were updated to the Dunkerque's more modern 13"ers. That would put four more heavy guns to sea than the Dunkerque's. Paired up with a Dunkerque, between the two of them there would be adequate gunpower facing aft AND forward!!