1919 A10

[Runway ? ...]

Hi,
I'm playing with a "too late for WW1" heavy fighter/ground attack aircraft and I've got as far as an airframe and discovered I know faff all about what weapons were available about that time. I want to use pom poms, bofors and the like but I don't think they existed yet. I've googled a bit, but can one of you guys point me at a useful on/off line resource for late WW1 cannons and the like.

Cheers,

Already got my coat  

[Brian da Basher]

Wow that's a great idea you've got in the works! I wish we could sit down and have a few pints and discuss it. Barring that here's some links to get you started from Chandelle's fine website:

This link deals with ideas on how to break the line 1919 style:

Plan 1919

This link has some odd aircraft from late in the war. Towards the bottom is some info about the Vickers Vampire you might find useful:

W.W. I Arcana

This link is about nightfighting efforts but has some good info on the aircraft and guns available late-war:

Nocturnal Defense

I hope this stuff is helpful. I think you've got a killer idea there and I'm looking forward to seeing pics of what you come up with!

Brian da Basher

P.S. Arcana link fixed now...sorry for the oops.

[Runway ? ...]

Cheers BdB. You've probably saved me weeks of head scratching. I'll let you know if I come up with anything worth looking at    

[The Rat]

This link has some odd aircraft from late in the war. Towards the bottom is some info about the Vickers Vampire you might find useful:

W.W. I Arcana

AAAAAAAAARGH! Can't get that one to work Brian.

[RP1]

Excessive http-age in linky.  try below:

http://www.worldatwar.net/chandelle/v3/v3n...ww1-arcana.html

RP1

[The Rat]

Excessive http-age in linky.  try below:

http://www.worldatwar.net/chandelle/v3/v3n...ww1-arcana.html

RP1

Got it, thanks.    

[Sentinel Chicken]

Crap, I read the title of this thread and immediately thought someone's got some big brass cajones for putting lozenge markings on an A-10 Thunderbolt!

[Jschmus]

I don't usually go for WWI stuff, as the planes look all too flimsy to me, but that Vickers Vampire looks tasty.  Is that even an appropriate adjective for an airplane?  It's a pusher with big guns up front, so it's good for me.

[NARSES2]

Hi,
I'm playing with a "too late for WW1" heavy fighter/ground attack aircraft and I've got as far as an airframe and discovered I know faff all about what weapons were available about that time. I want to use pom poms, bofors and the like but I don't think they existed yet. I've googled a bit, but can one of you guys point me at a useful on/off line resource for late WW1 cannons and the like.

Cheers,

Already got my coat  

The "Pom-Pom" gun existed since before the start of the century - used in the Boer War, so a 2pdr version would be available

[jcf]

As Narses points out the pom-pom existed...but it would be way too heavy.
Both sides were developing relatively lightweight big guns towards the end and I have some references at home that I'll post info on later.

The Coventry Ordnance Works (C.OW.) 1 1/2 lbdr. (37mm) was one example that was fairly well developed and was intended for airships and bombers:


Here's a bit on large WWI cannon:
"The First World War

The first 37mm gun was the French Hotchkiss rotary cannon of the 1870s, inspired by the manually cranked Gatling (although using a different mechanism) which saw extensive international service, particularly in warships, but did not seem to be much favoured by the UK. The next significant development was the 1 PR Maxim "pom-pom", a belt-fed automatic weapon (basically a scaled-up Maxim machine gun) which used the same low-powered 37x94R ammunition as the Hotchkiss. Ammunition loadings varied but typically consisted of a 555g shell fired at a muzzle velocity of 367 m/s. This came out at the end of the 19th Century and the British first experienced it the hard way, being on the receiving end of the weapons acquired by the Boers. The gun was subsequently used by the British but suffered from the lack of an obvious role; it was too small to harm naval vessels and on land was outranged by the new quick-firing artillery pieces firing shrapnel shells, which were just as mobile. It acquired a new lease of life in WW1 as an answer to low-flying aircraft, and was employed in this role by the British as well as many other armies.

It soon became obvious that the low velocity of the 1 PR was a handicap in dealing with aircraft, so more powerful versions were developed. Vickers, who made (and adapted) Maxim guns for the British, produced the 1½ PDR Mk 1 naval gun, firing a much more powerful 37x123R cartridge. This saw very little use, however, before being replaced by the 2 PR No.1, basically the same but with the case necked out and extended to 40x158R. Although primarily designed for naval use, it was employed in land service as well during WW1.

Attention was also given to fitting cannon to aircraft, either for attacking other aircraft (including airships), ground targets, ships or submarines. The French were the leaders in this field, but the British also made many experiments, a few of which saw limited service in WW1. The 1 PR Maxim was too heavy for an aircraft to carry, so Vickers developed a smaller and lighter version, the 1PR Mk III. This fired a shorter and less powerful 37x69R cartridge which enabled the gun weight to be kept down, but it saw little use. A more famous automatic aircraft gun was the Coventry Ordnance Works ("COW") gun. The first version of this was a 1 PR, firing a rimless 37x94 cartridge, but this was soon replaced by a 1½ PR version (37x190) which saw continuous development throughout WW1. It was at last ready for production just as the war ended, so few were built and only two entered service before the Armistice, in DH 4s. It fired at about 90 rpm from a five-round clip.

Manually-loaded cannon were also tried. In fact, the first cannon installed in a British aircraft was a Vickers 1½ PDR Class B, which was experimentally fitted to a pair of seaplanes. The smallest and lightest was the 1.59" Vickers-Crayford Gun which was developed as a lightweight (21 kg) gun, both for aircraft and to provide infantrymen with more firepower in the trenches. It was popularly dubbed the 'rocket gun' apparently due to a misunderstanding (much to the confusion of armament historians ever since) but was in fact a conventional artillery piece. It fired a 540g HE shell at about 240 m/s, using a cartridge based on the naval 2 PR shell case, reduced in length from 158 to 79mm. A higher-pressure AP loading achieved 300 m/s. It was entirely manual in its action (ie without even the automatic ejection of the fired cases) and thereby very slow to reload, so it was not popular. A larger and more powerful weapon, the 2 PR Mk V, used a 40x240R cartridge but only two guns were ordered and a small amount of ammunition made.

The 40mm calibre was also used in the smallest of the WW1 American Davis recoilless guns which were fitted to a few aircraft. The 40x378R cartridge fired a 0.9 kg shell at 365 m/s and weighed only 24 kg, but was cumbersome to handle and reload. The backblast was also heavy enough to damage the fragile aircraft of the day unless it was aimed well clear, so despite many experiments and some service use it was never popular."

The French of course had the moteur-canon mounted on the SPADS and 37mm and 47mm cannon mounted on Voisins and other types.

The best page on the web on the subject is probably this page:

Cannon Pioneers

Cheers, Jon

[Runway ? ...]

Cheers Jon, that's great stuff.
What's there is also prompting me to remember big chunks of info I haven't touched in thirty years.
Nice one            

[gooberliberation]

Fokkers also had an experimental "Trench Fighter" variant of the D VIII, called V.37... it had a Huge armored prop spinner, a cooling fan behind the prop, some cheek fairings, and armor plating. I dont know what kinda armament it had though.

Perhaps you can also try a scaled down Boeing GA-1/GAX.

[jcf]

Fokkers also had an experimental "Trench Fighter" variant of the D VIII, called V.37... it had a Huge armored prop spinner, a cooling fan behind the prop, some cheek fairings, and armor plating. I dont know what kinda armament it had though.

Perhaps you can also try a scaled down Boeing GA-1/GAX.

"Ve require no guns..ve vill bonk you on der kopf mit der panzer propellor."

:dum:  :dum:

Cheers, Jon

[jcf]

Some more stuff.

First two that were used:




...and a couple of German projects that were well advanced in 1918 but didn't see service:

A very advanced design, the feed mechanism had a very powerful belt-pull and a similar system was later used on the Russian Shkas aero-cannons.





The Gast was capable of 1600 rounds per minute. A multiple mount fixed battery would be a real lead thrower.

Cheers, Jon