22 ideas (and missed opportunities)

[mrdj]

And a VC-7. I'm still trying to pick an antennae array for the AEW

[Archibald]

My own little suggestion for the AEW : could you try adding bulbous similar to the Nimrod AEW3 (big nose and tail).

In fact the most complicated part is the day fighter. Difficult choice to make between the P.1052/1081, Swift, Hunter, and their evolutions (P.1083 and type 545).
Maybe just having Hawker products (Hawker P.1081, Hunter and one the transonic Hunter, maybe not the P.1083 but rather the 1102, to have an F-100/ SMB-2/
MiG-19 equivalent in GB).

Zen, maybe you know much better than me all the British aircrafts constructors of this era (they were 15 or so!). Could you imagine a rational merging of all these firms into three or two HUGE groups  ? What can we do using the HS group as a basis ?  

[Archibald]

12- ER-103C (AkA the fighter variant of the Fairey Delta II) replace the Hunter (no Lightning)

I known this fighter from Secret projects (and prototypes.com, which just translated the book in French   ) but I'be never seen pics of it...
But yesterday a nice guy send me a page of "Projects cancelled" by Dereck Wood with a very nice artist impresion of the ER-103C.
Here we go


Mirage III and fairey delta II were roughly equivalents.
But in the field of engines, radars and missiles, GB was years ahead of France (just compare Red top to R-530, SNECMA Atar 9k50 to RR Avon 300 or  Cyrano II  to  AI-23...)  

[Zen]

Two groups is too large for the 40's and 50's. Three makes more sense though I think some might have remained seperate as specialists.

[Archibald]

You're right, France needed 25 years to go from 4 groups to only two (Sud and nord+ dassault independant)  

[Archibald]

Added some minor upgrades to the list (I know merging Alphajet and Hawk would have been difficult, but I just can't resist )

1- Accord firmed with the USA (toward transport aircrafts) is denounced in 1944. Avro York is produced in big numbers. Bristol 100 tons bomber is also produced (interim type waiting the V-bombers).
2- The Malta class carriers are build from 1946, modernised in 1957-59 to serve up to the 90's.
3- Miles M52 is not cancelled and reach mach 1 in early 1948.
4- 14 different aircraft makers are merged in 3 groups right from 1948.
5- Hawker P.1052 as interim, swept wing fighter for both RN and RAF perform well in Korea...
6- The Hunter replace it as day fighter.
7- The Vixen is the only FAW (both RN and RAF).
8- The Victor is the only V-bomber.
9- Avon, Conway, Medway/Spey are the way to go (they receive priority over the others, so only the most interesting such as the Pegasus are developped.) RR and HS engines stay as the only engine maker.
10- After 1958 : The Bucc is the low level bomber (no TSR-2, AFVG, F-111K)
11- The Victor receive the Blue Steel (later mk2) becoming a standoff missile carrier to complete the bucc for nuclear deterrent.
12- OR-330 scrapped, OR-336 (= EE P.10) are for recon only (British Blackbird!).
13-  After a flyoff, the Hawker P.1121 become RAF mai FAW, and fighter bomber.
14- After Valiant cancellation (the plane was unuseful due to the Victor) Vickers VC-7 is funded by the RAF as transport (and later tanker). Civil variant is a success.
15- The Rotodyne is developed into a powerful tactical transport for the Army, RN... and BEA.
16- More Short Belfast are ordered.
17- The Trident stay at 121 passengers with RB-141 Medways. It became a huge success...
18- HS-681 also become operational (along the Belfast and Rotodyne)
19- CVA-01 is studied in the late 70's to complete and later replace the Malta class carriers.
20- Blackburn P.141 as long range interceptor in the 70's. No need for the Tornado ADV...
21- Development of the Blue Dolphin SARH to arm them.
22- Black Prince is developed (in paralel with French Diamant) both beeing replaced by Ariane later.
23- no Jaguar, rather a subsonic, tri-service trainer (AlphaHawk, France/ GB/ ALL)
24- Hawker P.1216 replace the Harrier GR.3 and Sea Harrier FR.1 in 1986, completing the P.141.
25- The AEW radar system has a rotordome and is installed into a VC-7.

[Archibald]

Joder, forget something again!
not specialist of helicopters, but it seems that the WG.11 was a lost opportunity... even the Chinook which replaced it was bought in small numbers, and very late (1977 only!)

More WG.11 as tri-service helicopter ? (in the mid 60's )

[kitnut617]

Something to think about which is often overlooked.  Most of the 14 aircraft manufacturers had already almagamated, been bought out or whatever, before the Second World War.  Supermarine for instance is a well know one as they were a Vickers company, who Avro was with on the other hand isn't such a well know fact, they were actually a Hawker company along with Gloster and some others.

What I find very hard to understand is why these 'in-house' companies were allowed to compete against each other, on top of competing against the other companies/groups for the same aircraft requirement.  I think this was the most critical problem with the British aircraft industry at the time.

Robert

[Archibald]

Yep! Aparently the HS group was set up in 1935! I agree with you on that

why these 'in-house' companies were allowed to compete against each other

Very odd...  
Maybe because it was not the governement of the time which build these groups, rather private interests...