Armour Related Questions

GTX · January 19, 2008, 12:38:43 PM

Hi folks,

Given most here usually play with aircraft, I thought a thread to post Armour related questions might be of use.

I'll start with one I asked a while back, but no-one answered:

I'm thinking of an upgraded Tiger I in Israeli service (possibly with added ERA tiles). I'm considering replacing the 88mm KwK 36 L/56 with either a 105mm L7 and even 120-mm L11A but want to make sure it would be even possible (including if the turret would need significant modifying). Does anyone have a good source of info for this comparison, such as internal turret dimensions along with dimensions of the various guns?

Regards,

Greg

Arc3371 · January 19, 2008, 01:51:31 PM

Can´t answer your question but this was posted over at the Intel (WinMBT) forum

General Zod · January 21, 2008, 03:14:12 PM

Quote from: GTX on January 19, 2008, 12:38:43 PM
Hi folks,

Given most here usually play with aircraft, I thought a thread to post Armour related questions might be of use.

I'll start with one I asked a while back, but no-one answered:

I'm thinking of an upgraded Tiger I in Israeli service (possibly with added ERA tiles). I'm considering replacing the 88mm KwK 36 L/56 with either a 105mm L7 and even 120-mm L11A but want to make sure it would be even possible (including if the turret would need significant modifying). Does anyone have a good source of info for this comparison, such as internal turret dimensions along with dimensions of the various guns?

Regards,

Greg

Greg

The IDF mounted a 105mm French made gun on some Sherman tanks I do believe it was cut down a good 3 feet or so If it wasn't cut down the recoil would have knocked the back of the turret out It was called the M51

I love the idea of an IDF Tiger I

GTX · January 21, 2008, 11:54:26 PM

Well, this picture kind of helps, but I'd still like the dimensions:

Regards,

Greg

General Zod · January 22, 2008, 09:19:09 AM

Greg

here is a link to the Bovington tank museum over in Britain They may be able to help you

http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/home.html

I am trying to think of sites that will have drawings with the dimensions

jcf · January 22, 2008, 09:59:05 AM

Wiki gives a length for the L7 of 5.89m, the barrel length of Kwk 88/ L56 is 4.928m (88 X 56 = 4.928), coincidentally if the L7 length given is for the barrel rather than overall, then it is also a 56 calibre gun. The version in the S-tank has a 62 calibre barrel.

FWIW Wiki also states that the L7 was developed as a direct replacement, using the same mountings, for the 20 pounder (84mm) gun originally fitted to the Centurion. The L7A3 as used in the Leopard I has a modified breechblock, the upper rear corner is angled so it won't hit the roof of the turret.

Now for an unscientific comparison of cutaways, approximately to scale if the dimensions I have are correct and if the overall length figures are indeed from the butt to the tip of the barrel. The M60 uses the US M68 version of the L7 and does have a different breechblock assembly.

I think you'd have the same problem as the Leopard 1.

Jon

jcf · January 22, 2008, 10:15:46 AM

Greg,
here is a link to photos from the Royal Ordnance Factory:
http://www.rofnottingham.co.uk/06_products_02.htm

Looking at the L11 photos, I think you might want to stick with the 105.

Jon

bentley61 · January 28, 2008, 03:15:06 PM

does anyone have any ideas on how i could armour the revell 1/72 tank transporter without changing the original design too much.
thanks,
ben

cthulhu77 · January 28, 2008, 03:47:58 PM

Since it was a transporter, you might want to go with some side plates on posts.

jcf · January 28, 2008, 10:03:41 PM

Quote from: bentley61 on January 28, 2008, 03:15:06 PM
does anyone have any ideas on how i could armour the revell 1/72 tank transporter without changing the original design too much.
thanks,
ben

Hi Ben,
there are many armored vehicles on the market today that look very much like 'normal' vehicles.
The main outwardly visible elements are squared off lines, doors and windows with a beefed up or thickened appearance, sometimes the glass area is reduced in size and the occasional gun mount is added to the roof.

On the Faun, I'd say thin sheet plastic appliqués to thicken the doors and slightly reduce the size of the glass. Maybe a gun mount on top and a thickened windscreen.

Or you could go retro and use fold down plates over the windscreen and sides ala the WWII US 'Dragon Wagon'.

Cheers, Jon

Hobbes · January 28, 2008, 11:46:04 PM

You could also add plating to cover the wheels. Slat armour would also be an option, but quite fiddly to build in 1/72.

deathjester · January 29, 2008, 08:58:59 AM

I remember reading somewhere that the main problem for up-gunning tanks is the size of the turret ring [the ball raced section the turret turns on]. If it is to small, then the tank will (A) Be unstable (B) Run the risk of tearing the turret off when it fires!

I think that's one of the main reasons they designed lots of vehicles with guns above the turret in the 1970's...apart from the added advantage of very low vehicle height.