US Navy CVN in RN post Falklands

[Lawman]

I would have liked to see the old LCT®s brought back into service - a good barrage of ~1000 rockets at a time would have been very useful. Each of them could carry ~6000 rockets total (including reloads), and a few LCT®s would have been enough to give Argentine forces a very hard time. Each of the rockets had a 60lb warhead, which would easily be equivalent to a 155mm shell - just two LCT®s would be enough to force the enemy to surrender nice and quick. Replicating the effects of thousands of rockets with light howitzers would be almost impossible.

[Triton]

The RN were offered two Essex class carriers for around $50 million each with the first, USS Shangri-La CV-38, to be delivered in 1970-71 and the second, USS Yorktown CV-10, for delivery in 1974-75.

Source: Air-Britain Aeromilitaria, Vol. 32 Issue 125 Spring 2006.

Cheers, Jon

HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales?   I wonder how an Essex-class carrier would have faired against an Argentine Navy Exocet-equipped Super Etendard?

[GTX]

The RN were offered two Essex class carriers for around $50 million each with the first, USS Shangri-La CV-38, to be delivered in 1970-71 and the second, USS Yorktown CV-10, for delivery in 1974-75.

Source: Air-Britain Aeromilitaria, Vol. 32 Issue 125 Spring 2006.

Cheers, Jon

HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales?   I wonder how an Essex-class carrier would have faired against an Argentine Navy Exocet-equipped Super Etendard?

Depends upon the airwing to a large extent.

Regards,

Greg

[PR19_Kit]

Depends upon the airwing to a large extent.

And if there was enough wind over the deck to launch the Super Etendards. Did the Marinha ever operate them from the '25th de Mayo'? I know they didn't in the Falklands War, but I mean before or afterward.

In passing I only found out this week the '25th de Mayo' used to be the 'Karel Doorman' in the Royal Dutch Navy and before that she was 'HMS Venerable' in our Navy. To my mind the Dutch made a superb job of rebuilding her, that raked funnel and bridle catcher look pretty darn good.

(Sorry for drifting the thread.......)

[dy031101]

And if there was enough wind over the deck to launch the Super Etendards. Did the Marinha ever operate them from the '25th de Mayo'? I know they didn't in the Falklands War, but I mean before or afterward.

I remember seeing pictures of them flying from the Brazilian CVL (the one before São Paulo) after the de Mayo was rendered inoperable, so there should be no problem for the de Mayo herself to host the SEs......

[Joe C-P]

Essex class would have been a more reasonable fit for the RN. They should have been able to reduce the crew numbers from the USN's, for a lower impact on their total manpower requirement.
As has been said, the airwing would have been the biggest factor in how effective the ships were against the Argentinians. A-7s and A-4s would have still been considered effective, and Buccs and maybe some Phantoms, the latter of which would have been an even better match for the Argentine Air Force than the Harriers.

[MAD]

The RN were offered two Essex class carriers for around $50 million each with the first, USS Shangri-La CV-38, to be delivered in 1970-71 and the second, USS Yorktown CV-10, for delivery in 1974-75.

Source: Air-Britain Aeromilitaria, Vol. 32 Issue 125 Spring 2006.

Cheers, Jon

Thanks for that Jon
I never knew or heard of this before!
Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!

M.A.D

[MAD]

The RN were offered two Essex class carriers for around $50 million each with the first, USS Shangri-La CV-38, to be delivered in 1970-71 and the second, USS Yorktown CV-10, for delivery in 1974-75.

Source: Air-Britain Aeromilitaria, Vol. 32 Issue 125 Spring 2006.

Cheers, Jon

HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales?   I wonder how an Essex-class carrier would have faired against an Argentine Navy Exocet-equipped Super Etendard?

It will be critical and imperative that the Royal Navy was prepared to match the carrier with a truly effective carrier-based AEW / AWACS, in the true numbers needed for high intensity warfare.
I am very concerned that with the purchase of these two ships, that the British government / navy would have found it difficult (or more realistically unwilling) to purchase an AEW platform.
I say this because I have never been able to get over the almost criminal neglect that the Royal Navy was prepared and willing to go to in not developing, let alone deploying a carrier-based (of any sort or type!) so far out at sea, into such a potential hostile environment as the Falkland Islands, after all that both the United States and Britain had learnt in modern naval sea and aerial warfare during and since WWII.
Again I have always wondered if how the poor sods of the Royal Navy would have faired if the Invincible Class and HMS Hermes had of gone head to head in a NATO vs. Warsaw Pact conflict without the costly lessons of the Falklands War?
........................Dead, sunk, and just a sad memory in history!

M.A.D

[PR19_Kit]

I am very concerned that with the purchase of these two ships, that the British government / navy would have found it difficult (or more realistically unwilling) to purchase an AEW platform.

I say this because I have never been able to get over the almost criminal neglect that the Royal Navy was prepared and willing to go to in not developing, let alone deploying a carrier-based (of any sort or type!) so far out at sea, into such a potential hostile environment as the Falkland Islands, after all that both the United States and Britain had learnt in modern naval sea and aerial warfare during and since WWII.

Again I have always wondered if how the poor sods of the Royal Navy would have faired if the Invincible Class and HMS Hermes had of gone head to head in a NATO vs. Warsaw Pact conflict without the costly lessons of the Falklands War?
........................Dead, sunk, and just a sad memory in history!

Depending on when it happened they may already have had such a platform. The Gannet AEW3 didn't retire until 1978, and the time frame that Jon mentions was some 5-8 years before that. A Gannet would have had no problems operating from an Essex class carrier., they were of a similar size to the Albion class carriers.

In the Falklands time frame they had already passed the radar sets from the Gannets onto the Shackleton AEW2s, because the Nimrod AEW was such a disaster, so there was nothing they could have done about providing a carrier-borne AEW service in the short time available. What they did do was rush the AEW Sea King into service, but by that time the conflict was done and dusted.

As for how the RN would have survived in a NATO/WarPac conflict, I'd say they'd fare about as well as the US Navy or any of the other NATO Navies! As any conflict would most likely have been with task forces from many navies working together, the lack of capabilities on the part of one ship would have been balanced by capabilities of another. As for being dead, sunk and a memory I doubt the WarPac fleets would have come off any better......

[Zen]

Warsaw Pact forces where to sail out, fire off their working missiles, and then.....errrr.....sink.
Which for all we know might have worked since if they can overwhelm NATO forces then theres precious little left to sally forth afterwards.......assuming there was an afterwards, which considering how quickly conventional stocks would be used up suggests the whole affair would go nuclear very quickly.