Canadian AF- Why Hornet and not the Eagle?

[jcf]

We weren't looking to replace the 104's at the time the Speys were brought up - it was a counterpoint to people in the ministry going "but they won't let us produce them local and modify them" "but the Brits did it!" which still got shot down over price.  At the time, the concept of acquiring Phantoms, even Spey Spooks, was to replace the aging Clunks, and compliment our 100/104 fleet.  Our Phantoms were for the most part still considered for Tactical Air Support.  I don't recall the exact timeframe, though.

The Clunks were phased out of the front line squadrons between May 1961 and December 1962,
the remaining CF-100s were used by test, training and EW units.

Mc Donnell began design of the Spey engined YF-4K in January 1963. The RN decision to order was announced
on 27 February 1964, the contract for two YF-4Ks and two F-4Ks was received on 30 September, 1964. First
flight was 27 June, 1966. The RAF selected the F-4M in February 1965, first YF-4M flight was 17 February, 1967.
The British Phantoms were not 'produced and modified' in the UK, they were built by Mc Donnell including UK sourced
equipment and incorporating the engineering modifications needed to meet British requirements.

The Clunk was out of service before the Spey Spooks came to be.

The CF-101B/F entered service in November 1961.
The CF-104 entered service in December 1962.

[viper29_ca]

I wasn't meaning any specific problem with our Tac Air, just highlighting the fact that our Tac Air is so fracking long in the tooth it isn't funny.  They wanted the MGS because it was liftable with our current Tac Air.  It's about time we're getting something bigger, I hear Globemasters are on the menu, and some new Hercs, along with some Nooks, about bloody fracking time.

I had to have a look at the date of the posting after reading this 'cause I thought I missed something -----  we have Globemasters, three of them, all delivered last year

Actually 4 of them....the last one was delivered last fall.

[kitnut617]

I wasn't meaning any specific problem with our Tac Air, just highlighting the fact that our Tac Air is so fracking long in the tooth it isn't funny.  They wanted the MGS because it was liftable with our current Tac Air.  It's about time we're getting something bigger, I hear Globemasters are on the menu, and some new Hercs, along with some Nooks, about bloody fracking time.

I had to have a look at the date of the posting after reading this 'cause I thought I missed something -----  we have Globemasters, three of them, all delivered last year

Actually 4 of them....the last one was delivered last fall.

Hmm! yes I forgot it was four, was reading an earlier issue of Combat Aircraft last night and saw my mistake --  D'oh! 

[Sauragnmon]

The Formerly Clunk Squadrons were still on the table for when the Spooks were being considered - after all, the CF-5 when it came into service, did NOT supplant the 101/104 squadrons, but Supplement them.  Another aircraft that was needing replacement in the timeframe was the Banshees - the RCN wanted aircraft to operate off the Bonaventure after the Banshees grew too long in the tooth, though interesting to note, they wanted Skyhawks instead.

Thankyou for the correction/clarification on the process of the Spey Spooks, they still demonstrated that McAir was willing to support modifications to the Phantom that would have sourced domestic material - after all, you yourself just stated that the materials were sourced from the UK.  Orenda-driven Phantoms perhaps?

Back to the topic, F-15's in RCAF service probably would have come about to replace the Century Fighters when they grew long in the tooth, and could likely have been lobbied by a group within touting differences like the T/W ratio or the better operability of the F-15.  If Interception and Air Superiority are a question, the F-15N could have been put into work, with support for the AIM-54 to perform long range interception of bombers, which for the squadrons watching the North would likely have been a key perspective.  RCAF drops the Arrow, Picks up the Phantom on the original timeframe, takes 111's for improved Tac Air, replaces the F-4's with 15's and goes with an overall stronger force perspective?  It's a thought.

[kitnut617]

A few years ago USAF aircraft were regularly seen at many of the airshows I went to around Alberta and BC, one of the things that stood out was that the F-15's couldn't maneuver as vigorously as the F-18, especially in the confines of the airfield when doing their flying displays.  This could have been by design, I don't know, but it would seem that a good F-18 pilot could get the edge on an F-15 pilot when in a dog fight where the speeds have come down and in close quarters.

[pyro-manic]

The Bug excels at high AoA and low speed manoeuvering, in part due to the very large LERXs.