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Discussion: Grumman VFX Concept/WHIF (Alternate F-14 Design)

Started by KJ_Lesnick, January 24, 2009, 11:58:57 AM

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sotoolslinger

#30
March 27, 2009, 09:04:16 PM
KJ while I was doing research for the VG Flanker I also read that while the Tomcat could carry 6 AIM 54 the set up was  never used operationally. If you are creating a design that is smaller than the Tomkitty I would keep the big missiles on the fuselage . Also just for versatility it would be good to have an assortment of lesser ranged missiles on the wing pylons.
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KJ_Lesnick

#31
March 28, 2009, 12:42:05 PM
GTX,

QuoteYes but the F-104's wing was extremely short.

Yeah, but I wouldn't be mounting them on the wingtips...


Sotoolslinger,

QuoteKJ while I was doing research for the VG Flanker I also read that while the Tomcat could carry 6 AIM 54 the set up was  never used operationally.

That's right.

QuoteIf you are creating a design that is smaller than the Tomkitty I would keep the big missiles on the fuselage . Also just for versatility it would be good to have an assortment of lesser ranged missiles on the wing pylons.

Well I wasn't planning on the design being any physically shorter than the actual F-14, but having fixed wings and being lighter.  You might have a point with the AIM-54's being mounted on the fuselage


KJ Lesnick
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

sotoolslinger

#32
March 28, 2009, 03:05:27 PM
Kendra (I'm sure you know this ,excuse me if I ramble) ;D While you are going for the same length you stated you wanted a skinnier plane with less space between the engines and a smaller pancake. This should increase your roll rate  :thumbsup: Remember that the Phoenix is specifically designed as a stand off, long range weapon. They are not only big and heavy they are expensive . Also most missiles have a minimum distance that they will lock on. You would not want to limit yourself to either engage with the gun or engage waaaaaay out with an AIM-54.
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Things learned from this site: don't tease wolverine.
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KJ_Lesnick

#33
April 02, 2009, 08:13:53 PM
Okay, another idea I was thinking of was using an intake arrangement similar to one of LTV's VFX designs which used a fixed wing like these...





...maybe the intake spacing could be a little bit closer, with about the same spacing at the engine area as on the F-14.  That should be sufficient to mount 4 x AIM-54's.

Granted the large pancake area would by necessity end up producing a slower roll-rate.  I'm not sure how much I could boost it back up.  I'd like to at least get a roll-rate rivalable to the F-15. 

My guess is to retain the elevon on the back of the LTV design depicted, but split it so it could work asymmetrically as well as symmetric.  The other idea would be to kind of mix up the idea I have with the variable-camber flaps and flaperons with flap-shrouds, and essentially make a full-span shrouded flaperon (or more accurately divide it into two sections so that if one konked out you could use the other)

I don't know how the USN in the late 1960's would have looked upon a variable flap design like this (especially the risk of flap asymmetry which happened on F-16's), but I think it could help.  Don't know how much of a roll-increase could be produced though.




I'm thinking that I would want to use a broader strake more like this and cover as much of the engine intake with this as possible.  However I'm pretty sure there's going to be a bit of the intake duct that won't be covered by the strake.  I'm not exactly sure how this would all work regarding the stability of airflow into the duct.

Should some kind of revision to the chine be made to enable it to cover up the whole intake? 


KJ Lesnick

That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

sotoolslinger

#34
April 03, 2009, 06:55:24 AM
KJ are you set on a conventional wing design. I am going to do the Super Duper Hornet with a Cranked Arrow type wing (like the F-16 XL) with no horizontal stabs.Roll control would be done with split flaps and spoilers.
I amuse me.
Huge fan of noisy rodent.
Things learned from this site: don't tease wolverine.
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Worshippers in Nannerland

KJ_Lesnick

#35
April 20, 2009, 01:01:55 PM
By the way, how did the Su-27 manage to avoid the problems the YF-17 and F/A-18 had with their tailfins requiring vortices over both sides of the tailfins?

KJ Lesnick
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

KJ_Lesnick

#36
April 27, 2009, 05:59:44 PM Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 04:05:48 PM by KJ_Lesnick
Sotoolslinger,

QuoteKJ are you set on a conventional wing design.

Well for the sake of the WHIF, yes.  I think using variable camber LED's and flaps, combined with a suitably a large wing could produce satisfactory performance for the VFX requirements even with the technology then available.  The strakes could produce good high alpha capability and reasonably good supersonic agility.

It could have yielded a much lighter, simpler design which by it's very nature would have a higher T/W ratio.  Assuming the L/D ratios could be kept closer this would yield better energy maneuverability.
 

KJ Lesnick
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

KJ_Lesnick

#37
June 11, 2009, 04:05:34 PM
Sotoolslinger,

QuoteI am going to do the Super Duper Hornet with a Cranked Arrow type wing (like the F-16 XL) with no horizontal stabs.Roll control would be done with split flaps and spoilers.

Why would you use split flaps and spoilers?  The plane would have elevons and you could just use those to accomplish both pitch and roll-functions.
 

KJ Lesnick
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

Cliffy B

#38
June 18, 2009, 09:37:02 PM
Hey guys, I don't know if this is new news or not but I found this article on the VFX concept including all of the proposals from all the major companies.  Full of line drawings, photos, and models.  Sorry if its old but I thought it was neat.

http://steeljawscribe.com/2007/12/16/flightdeck-friday-tfx-a-time-for-turkeys-part-iii
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KJ_Lesnick

#39
June 19, 2009, 02:51:34 PM Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 12:33:56 PM by KJ_Lesnick
Cliffy B,

Thank you for the link


KJ Lesnick
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

KJ_Lesnick

#40
July 23, 2009, 09:19:26 AM
I'm currently working with some individuals in the Profiles and CGI forum in creating a set of line drawings of my current concept to help better explain my ideas...

K.J. Lesnick
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

KJ_Lesnick

#41
July 29, 2009, 11:12:28 AM
I'm wondering how big an issue spot-factor was in this particular program
Looking at some information about the VFX on the Secret Projects forum, the Spot Factor was mentioned a bit and was said to have some importance...


KJ Lesnick
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

KJ_Lesnick

#42
August 04, 2009, 12:35:34 PM
Where you guys recommend the gun be located?  Same as on the F-14, or in another location?
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.
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