back to front layout

[McColm]

When the Wright Brothers made their first recorded flight. The engine was in the middle and the rudder was at the front.
Somewhere along the history line the engine was at the front and the rudder at the back.

Has anyone been successful putting the rudder at the front and a engine at the back?
Might be a good whiff project.

[Weaver]

When the Wright Brothers made their first recorded flight. The engine was in the middle and the rudder was at the front.
Somewhere along the history line the engine was at the front and the rudder at the back.

Has anyone been successful putting the rudder at the front and a engine at the back?
Might be a good whiff project.

I thought the rudders were at the back and the elevator was at the front? Basically, it was a canard.

[McColm]

Just had another look, yep you're right.

So has anyone put the rudders/elevators at the front end and a egine at the rear apart from a harrier flying backwards?

[Weaver]

One of the BAE SABA (Small Agile Battlefield Aircraft) studies had a rear-mounted turboprop, canard layout, and a ventral rudder under the nose. I think the idea was that, by the time they'd riased the engine high enough for prop-clearance at rotate, there wasn't enough fin area left to form a useful rudder. However, it also had possibilities for Direct Side Force Control with a sophisticated enough FCS.

Speaking of DSFC, you could make a case that the ventral fins on the AFTI F-16's intake were "rudders" in that they had rudder-like effects, i.e. on yam control.

[pyro-manic]

Yam control? Problems with feral sweet potatoes in your neck of the woods, Weaver?




I couldn't resist, sorry.....

Any pusher prop could be given an under-nose rudder and fin. A Shinden or Do335 would look interesting with such a modification.

[B777LR]

How about ships? Those nice propulshion pods fitted under the new front/old rear, a rounded/sharpened new front/old rear, bridge moved to the new front/old rear. Mind, this had already been done of various ferries:

M/V Fynshav:
http://www.dv.is/media/news/story/image/fynshav_jpg_550x400_q95.jpg

Mind, i once got an interesting thought while sailing near the ferry in the link. What if you welded the two together at the front, and got one large ferry? You would then reverse all the time!

Then again, there are already ferries such as Tycho Brahe:

http://www.mikkel-elling.dk/Billeder-Faerger/MF_Tycho_Brahe.jpg

http://kwmosgaard.dk/ferries/scandlines.htm

[McColm]

Me thinks that HMS Hood had a similar layout, all her guns were were facing backwards.

[Weaver]

Yam control? Problems with feral sweet potatoes in your neck of the woods, Weaver?




I couldn't resist, sorry.....

Any pusher prop could be given an under-nose rudder and fin. A Shinden or Do335 would look interesting with such a modification.

An AFTI F-16 is excellent for dispatching all manner of tubers (and other musical instruments)......

[PR19_Kit]

Just had another look, yep you're right.

So has anyone put the rudders/elevators at the front end and a egine at the rear apart from a harrier flying backwards?

Wasn't there a weird Pre-WWII Focke-Wulf that was designed like that?

I have a vision of a long low nose, a high wing aft of the cockpit with a large fin sticking up on front of the windscreen, but darned if I can find a piccie anywhere.......

[Mossie]

The Focke Wulf F 19 Ente pretty much follows your description Kit, apart from the fin in front of the windscreen.  The Fw 42 design took the concpet of the Ente (Duck) & applied it to a bomber.  Maybe you've seen another version of these two, maybe an experimental fit on the F 19?

http://www.luft46.com/fw/fw42.html

[PR19_Kit]

Mossie,

Yes, that sort of rings bells, but as you say there's no nose fin, and the engines aren't really at the back.

Maybe I was dreaming, or having a nightmare

[raafif]

my take ... not back-to-front but upside down & changing an aircraft into a sub ...

[McColm]

my take ... not back-to-front but upside down & changing an aircraft into a sub ...

Looks more like a minke whale. May have problems with jet engines working under water.Try a two stage rocket conversion or propellors.

[raafif]

yeah, the "jets" are meant to be podded propellors -- couldn't be bothered to go to much trouble with the artwork as it was just a "try it" idea to see what it might look like for a kit I have sitting on the shelf -- bit o'fun tho might just do it to the old kit.

[jcf]

How about ships? Those nice propulshion pods fitted under the new front/old rear, a rounded/sharpened new front/old rear, bridge moved to the new front/old rear. Mind, this had already been done of various ferries:

M/V Fynshav:
http://www.dv.is/media/news/story/image/fynshav_jpg_550x400_q95.jpg

Mind, i once got an interesting thought while sailing near the ferry in the link. What if you welded the two together at the front, and got one large ferry? You would then reverse all the time!

Then again, there are already ferries such as Tycho Brahe:

http://www.mikkel-elling.dk/Billeder-Faerger/MF_Tycho_Brahe.jpg

http://kwmosgaard.dk/ferries/scandlines.htm

Double-ended ferries with a propeller and rudder at each end have been around for a very long time.

The Washington State Ferries Jumbo Mk. II class are currently the largest in the world at 460' 2" (140.25 m) in length.
http://www.evergreenfleet.com/mark2.html