Advanced Tactical Fighter Related Designs

[KJ_Lesnick]

Is it true that the original specifications, at any point, for the ATF dictated a 5,000 pound internal weapons capacity?  I would almost swear that I saw proposals on Secret Projects for F-22 develoments/derivatives that would have a 5,000 pound internal weapon's capacity (as well as other proposed modifications with the associated effects on performance) and was stated to be closer to the original requirements?

Is there any good website that has really good, in-depth information about the ATF development program (assuming it's no longer classified)?  I have done a search and I haven't been able to find anything of significant use?


R.C.
"That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep), and should I be arrested or framed for a criminal offense, or disappear entirely -- I think we all know who to blame for it"

[tahsin]

Wasn't Julian Assange in diapers when the ATF or its precedessors were talked about ? Really wondering how the part about your sig would help you in your query .

[thesolitarycyclist]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fighter-jets-grounded-20110807,0,5483241.story

From last weekend, makes you wonder if it`s wort the price. Advanced technology old fashioned problems, you`d think most of these type of problems would be none existent with modern design and testing techniques.

[Taiidantomcat]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fighter-jets-grounded-20110807,0,5483241.story

From last weekend, makes you wonder if it`s wort the price. Advanced technology old fashioned problems, you`d think most of these type of problems would be none existent with modern design and testing techniques.

What a well argued and balanced piece about the F-22. No bias or preconceived conclusion/agenda there or anything. 

Anyway production ha been terminated for the F-22 anyway, in favor of the F-35. Thank god we are buying the F-35 Amiright?

To answer KJs original query I looked and couldn't find anything. However if you look at the program requirements they were amended and changed throughout. I do not think the ORIGINAL requirement called for bombs. Obviously amended in there at some point.

Found this:

The requirement for the F-22 was identified through the process described in Air Force Instruction (AFI) 10-601, Mission Needs and Operational Requirements Document and Procedures. During the early 1980s, the Air Force assessed its tactical capabilities against projected threats and determined that a mission deficiency would exist in the near future that could jeopardize the ability of the United States to ensure that its forces had the freedom of action to conduct operations against opposing forces. The Advanced Tactical Fighter Statement of Operational Need (November 1984) detailed this need, and Congressional funding and approval were received in 1985.

from here:http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-22-history.htm

Maybe it can get you started in the right direction

[rallymodeller]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fighter-jets-grounded-20110807,0,5483241.story

From last weekend, makes you wonder if it`s wort the price. Advanced technology old fashioned problems, you`d think most of these type of problems would be none existent with modern design and testing techniques.

While this is the same sort of piece that hounded both the F-111 and B-1 (look it up, Time Magazine even had a picture on the cover of one of its issues showing F-111s with lemons for roundels), I really question some aspects of the F-22 program. Certainly the cost overruns were unprecedented and massive, and the Air Force is getting something they realistically didn't need. The F-22 is the perfect fighter to combat the Soviet Union.

What the US needed was to go back and take another look at the F-15; possibly to re-engineer the design in a similar fashion to how they produced the F-18E. All the components were already in place, via AFTI and the Agile Eagle programs, to produce an effective fifth generation fighter from an existing base, one that would have been as good if not better than the half-generation-advanced Su-35 Terminator. Trouble is, the US got really lucky in the 70s with the Eagle and F-16 designs, and expected to see the same game-changing results with the F-22 (and the F-35). Even the Super Hornet, as much of a change as it is, did not incorporate several technologies that were already proven, such as X-31-style 3D maneuvering paddles in the exhaust stream -- which had already been tested by NASA on one of the prototype Legacy Hornets NASA now uses as chase planes. Evolutionary growth, with continuous R&D, can achieve the same results as revolutionary growth, and cheaper, too.

[KJ_Lesnick]

Uh, this was the link I was thinking of.  At least one of the designs in here was stated to be more like the intended role for which the ATF was designed for, I'm not sure if it was the Spiral-5 (whatever that means), or the FB-22-1.  Any further data?


KJ Lesnick

[rallymodeller]

By the descriptions I can deduce that they are all attack-optimized proposals of the basic F-22 design. Not sure what "Spiral 5" means, possibly a program code name (like Pave Spectre or Cobra Belle). In any event, the mention of A/G-optimized radar and the ability to carry SDBs (Small Diameter Bombs) is a dead giveaway.

[GTX]

I think you will find Spiral in this case refers to Spiral Development.

Regards,

Greg

[jcf]

The Lockheed Code One articles on F-22 development cover the background quite well:
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=40

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=41