Scottish Aviation (BAe) Bulldog

[Weaver]

Nice one Fred - I managed to completely miss that one...

Perhaps the Bulldog is an ideal subject for a white-metal prop: not that there's anything wrong with the kit one, it just needs the weight...

Nope: those are 18-round Type-155 pods. I mean the 6-round F2 pods, which are roughly half the diameter of a 155.

Ah! right, just counted them, and they're not 18-round either, there's only fifteen holes ----  what ones are those then ?

I have some even less than that if I can find them.

EDIT: hmm! I found the ones which are smaller in diameter which I was thinking of, and you're right, I count 18 holes, double checked the ones on my Turbo-Terrier and they have fifteen.

I've never heard of a 15-round SNEB pod. The standard ones which the RAF had were definitely 18-round Type-155s. Those and the 6-round F2s are the most common, and there's also a really big 36-round pod (F1?) which you rarely see in use. These are all reusable pods which can fire variable salvos, but there was also a series of disposable ones with frangible nose caps and an extra central rocket to break them. These came in 19-round (Type 116) and 7-round versions, only fired full salvos, and were automatically jettisoned afterwards.

I strongly suspect that your 15-rounders are simply badly molded. I've seen some shockingly bad SNEB pods in kits: as I've remarked before, kit designers sometimes seem to shy away from putting as much effort into the 'nasty' weapons as they do into the 'pretty' planes...

I'm trying to remember which kit I got them from H', I know I didn't ""mess"" around with them, I've got another photo before I painted them and that's how they are.

While I'm still convinced that I'm right about the RAF's pods, I feel I must point out that a bewildering variety of pods for SNEBs have been made over the years, and it's possible that there might have actually been a 15-round one, although I don't think it's likely and I can find no evidence of it.

[JayBee]

One point to remember is that the pylons were not wired for anything, and the pods fitted were not real. If they resembled actual pods, who knows.

Jim (who lives about 1.5 miles from where the Bulldogs were built)(and yes I have flown a Bulldog twice).

[Weaver]

One point to remember is that the pylons were not wired for anything, and the pods fitted were not real. If they resembled actual pods, who knows.

Jim (who lives about 1.5 miles from where the Bulldogs were built)(and yes I have flown a Bulldog twice).

They look like perfectly real MATRA F2 pods to me, they're just empty. Why fit and flight-test a non-existent pod? If you're trying to sell the armed version, surely you'd demonstrate it with a real pod that a customer could actually buy?

Wiring them up to fire would be pretty easy. Fitting a gunsight and getting the ballistics right would be the challenge, but it's been done on many similar aircraft.

[kitnut617]

While I'm still convinced that I'm right about the RAF's pods, I feel I must point out that a bewildering variety of pods for SNEBs have been made over the years, and it's possible that there might have actually been a 15-round one, although I don't think it's likely and I can find no evidence of it.

I'm not disputing what you say H', because I'll be the first to say I wouldn't know. It could be some kit manufacturer just figured no one was going to count them and just made a mould that was easier to machine. The smaller diameter pod I found in my stash does have 18 holes so I can't think why another manufacturer would get lazy.  I've been trying to google it too, there are some Russian ones that have 15 holes, but then they also have tubes protruding out on the inner circle so can't be those.

[kitnut617]

One point to remember is that the pylons were not wired for anything, and the pods fitted were not real. If they resembled actual pods, who knows.

Jim (who lives about 1.5 miles from where the Bulldogs were built)(and yes I have flown a Bulldog twice).

Jim, the second photo in the first post shows a "Remove before Flight" tag hanging from the pod, what would that be for ? The photo is also of a different aircraft, the top and bottom pics showing being of the same one.

[Weaver]

While I'm still convinced that I'm right about the RAF's pods, I feel I must point out that a bewildering variety of pods for SNEBs have been made over the years, and it's possible that there might have actually been a 15-round one, although I don't think it's likely and I can find no evidence of it.

I'm not disputing what you say H', because I'll be the first to say I wouldn't know. It could be some kit manufacturer just figured no one was going to count them and just made a mould that was easier to machine. The smaller diameter pod I found in my stash does have 18 holes so I can't think why another manufacturer would get lazy.  I've been trying to google it too, there are some Russian ones that have 15 holes, but then they also have tubes protruding out on the inner circle so can't be those.

Yeah, the Russian ones are 57mm. Contrary to popular belief, they don't all have the protruding inner tubes.

The most common mistake is to assume that FAA aircraft have 18-round MATRA pods. What they actually carried were 2" (50mm) Microcell rocket pods which were almost exactly the same size and shape as MATRA 155s, but had three rings of tubes. RAF Harrier GR.3s had to be cleared for the 2" pods in a hurry in the Falklands War because the SNEBs weren't rated as RFI safe on a carrier deck (you'll recall the extreme nastiness that the USN has experienced with errant rockets on carriers).

[Weaver]

Some Swedish Bulldogs were cleared to fire Bofors Bantam wire-guided ATGWs. This was mostly as a cut-price training substitute for the Rb-05s used by Viggens (also command-guided) but the fit could also have been used operationally.

Here's G-ASAL with different rockets - Oerlikon 80mm SURAs:
(Sorry it's so crappy: Photobucket blocked the pic within 24 hours of me linking it, so all I can get now is the thumbnail... )


From here: http://derbosoft.proboards.com/thread/13773/scottish-aviation-bulldog



Here's a Swedish one on skis:


From here: http://www.avrosys.nu/aircraft/Skol/422sk61/422SK61-2.htm

[kitnut617]

Yeah, the Russian ones are 57mm. Contrary to popular belief, they don't all have the protruding inner tubes.

A clue then to where I got the ones I've used, I've a few Russian aircraft (not many though, not my scene)

[NARSES2]

It could be some kit manufacturer just figured no one was going to count them and just made a mould that was easier to machine.

Oh yea, they really know modelers, don't they