How would the RAF have employed the Century Series

[James]

So the RAF of the 1960s would consist of lots and lots of Starfighter fighter-bombers, with Voodoo all-weather fighters and Thunderchief strike aircraft. Only the latter pleases me: if we had to buy American, I'd prefer to see Crusaders or J79-Tigers instead of the F-104s and F-4Cs instead of the Voodoos.

I'd agree with this. As much as I like Voodoos I think it would have made sense for the RAF to have jumped on the F-4 bandwagon early. The idea of RAF Tigers are interesting... got a view of some RAF Super Tigers now! 

Crusaders/Tigers could also have been used by the FAA - can't see them being a problem on the likes of HMS Vicky or even Hermes.

[pyro-manic]

A two-seat, Spey-powered version of the Crusader was considered for the FAA in the early 60s. It was to have been licence-built by Shorts IIRC.

[rickshaw]

A two-seat, Spey-powered version of the Crusader was considered for the FAA in the early 60s. It was to have been licence-built by Shorts IIRC.

Interesting.  Are there any drawings of this beast?   I'd be interested in seeing them.

[pyro-manic]

There is some concept art I've seen, but I don't know if there are any proper drawings. Here's where I got my info from:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1406.15.html

I plan to build at least one of these, as well as Weaver's "Paladin" development.

[Weaver]

There is some concept art I've seen, but I don't know if there are any proper drawings. Here's where I got my info from:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1406.15.html

I plan to build at least one of these, as well as Weaver's "Paladin" development.

Why thank you!

I've gathered bits to build one myself, but when I'll get around to it is anyone's guess...

[P1127]

Thanks for the thoughts guys - reason for putting it up was I wanted to find a possible senario for putting 'all' the F100 - 106 into RAF service in the same alternate time line, so I'll maybe dial back my decision point to earlier (immediately post-Suex, pre-Suez?).

In some ways the F-106 is the square peg, never exported, dedicated interceptor - however, the USAF used them out of Iceland, so I imagined an RAF use from Scotland covering the UK sector of the Greenland - Iceland - UK gap. How about F-106 ordered, but F-102s delivered as interim types (circa 1957) to combat the perceived USSR bomber threat until the F-106s arrived in the 1960/61 period.

Still like the idea of the F-104 serving as an interceptor, as the Norwegians used.

[Mossie]

The idea of RAF Tigers are interesting... got a view of some RAF Super Tigers now! 

Crusaders/Tigers could also have been used by the FAA - can't see them being a problem on the likes of HMS Vicky or even Hermes.

Spinners did some CGI RAF Tigers, possibly FAA too.  I saved them but I can't find them now, it was probably before I lost loads of stuff to the virus.

[NARSES2]

The Uk honors system is one of the most effective and cheapest anti corruption operations ever created, as far as civil servants are concerned.

Cash for honours Martin ?

Cash for honours was "politicians"  who I'm sure, like the dung beetle and the tapeworm,  have their place in the ecological system.     Civil Servants are much more expensive.   Lockheed hadn't got the cash. 

In the most recent cases yes, but I'm sure that a Civil Servant was involved in the origional LLoyd George scandal ? Although maybe it was a "civvie" go between with an office in a goverment building ? I'll dig out a book or two.

[Weaver]

Thanks for the thoughts guys - reason for putting it up was I wanted to find a possible senario for putting 'all' the F100 - 106 into RAF service in the same alternate time line, so I'll maybe dial back my decision point to earlier (immediately post-Suex, pre-Suez?).

That makes a lot more sense.

The F-86 buy gives the RAF and MoS a taste for using the threat of US competition to chivvie the UK industry into doing better, so they do it again with the F-100, playing it off against a much-reduced Hunter/Swift buy. Unfortunately, the UK industry collapses under the pressure, so they end up with the just the US option for the next generation.

In some ways the F-106 is the square peg, never exported, dedicated interceptor - however, the USAF used them out of Iceland, so I imagined an RAF use from Scotland covering the UK sector of the Greenland - Iceland - UK gap. How about F-106 ordered, but F-102s delivered as interim types (circa 1957) to combat the perceived USSR bomber threat until the F-106s arrived in the 1960/61 period.

Again, makes sense. The USAF saw the F-102 as an interim type, but ended up buying far more than they intended to due to delays in the F-106 program. If the RAF had given up on domestic types early enough, then they could have been in the same boat.

The problem with both the -102 and the -106 outside of the continental USA is that they depended on the elaborate ADC ground network of radars, control stations and datalinks for much of their effectiveness: essentially, they were "virtual two-seaters" with the back seater on the ground (F-102s performed pathetically in Vietnam). Perhaps the RAF would reserve them for all-weather cover in Germany, where the NADGE ground environment would serve  them (I think), and use the longer-ranged, more independent F-101B Voodoo for defence of the UK mainland?

Still like the idea of the F-104 serving as an interceptor, as the Norwegians used.

If your only options are American, then it's a natural for RAF Germany, particularly since in this scenario, interoperability and economies of scale would carry more weight than support for national industry.

[Rheged]

The Uk honors system is one of the most effective and cheapest anti corruption operations ever created, as far as civil servants are concerned.

Cash for honours Martin ?

Cash for honours was "politicians"  who I'm sure, like the dung beetle and the tapeworm,  have their place in the ecological system.     Civil Servants are much more expensive.   Lockheed hadn't got the cash. 

In the most recent cases yes, but I'm sure that a Civil Servant was involved in the origional LLoyd George scandal ? Although maybe it was a "civvie" go between with an office in a goverment building ? I'll dig out a book or two.

You are correct, it WAS a civvie called Maundy Gregory.......who later vanished in peculiar circumstances if memory serves....

[Rheged]

The Uk honors system is one of the most effective and cheapest anti corruption operations ever created, as far as civil servants are concerned.

Cash for honours Martin ?

Cash for honours was "politicians"  who I'm sure, like the dung beetle and the tapeworm,  have their place in the ecological system.     Civil Servants are much more expensive.   Lockheed hadn't got the cash. 

In the most recent cases yes, but I'm sure that a Civil Servant was involved in the origional LLoyd George scandal ? Although maybe it was a "civvie" go between with an office in a goverment building ? I'll dig out a book or two.

You are correct, it WAS a civvie called Maundy Gregory.......who later vanished in peculiar circumstances if memory serves....

Apologies to all.   Gregory might have been responsible for  Victor Grayson vanishing in unusual circumstances.   Failing memory syndrome on my part.

[NARSES2]

The Uk honors system is one of the most effective and cheapest anti corruption operations ever created, as far as civil servants are concerned.

Cash for honours Martin ?

Cash for honours was "politicians"  who I'm sure, like the dung beetle and the tapeworm,  have their place in the ecological system.     Civil Servants are much more expensive.   Lockheed hadn't got the cash. 

In the most recent cases yes, but I'm sure that a Civil Servant was involved in the origional LLoyd George scandal ? Although maybe it was a "civvie" go between with an office in a goverment building ? I'll dig out a book or two.

You are correct, it WAS a civvie called Maundy Gregory.......who later vanished in peculiar circumstances if memory serves....

Apologies to all.   Gregory might have been responsible for  Victor Grayson vanishing in unusual circumstances.   Failing memory syndrome on my part.

Thats the one