Convair F2Y Seadart Sea Dart XF2Y

[royabulgaf]

I am fixing up an old Airmodel F2Y and I seem to be getting in over my head.  I was looking at the landing gear photos of some of the survivors, and it seems more complex than I thought.  I don't think any two of the survivors are alike.  Anyway, I was mulling around doing an operational version.  However, after a thorough search (actually a desultory glance at Google Images) I can't find any drawings of one.  Where do the missiles go?  Where do the 20mm cannon go where they won't get wet, cause gas ingestion in the intakes, or blind the pilot when fired? 

[jcf]

I am fixing up an old Airmodel F2Y and I seem to be getting in over my head.  I was looking at the landing gear photos of some of the survivors, and it seems more complex than I thought.  I don't think any two of the survivors are alike.  Anyway, I was mulling around doing an operational version.  However, after a thorough search (actually a desultory glance at Google Images) I can't find any drawings of one.  Where do the missiles go?  Where do the 20mm cannon go where they won't get wet, cause gas ingestion in the intakes, or blind the pilot when fired? 

Five aircraft were built, the three ( one XF2Y-1, two YF2Y-1) that were flown tested a variety of ski-arrangements.

As to the armament that's easy: no missiles and no guns. A chart of operational Seadart characteristics
based on YF2Y-1 135763, lists 44 rockets under Armament but doesn't indicate where they were to be carried.

[sandiego89]

I too had problem with researching the weapon locations for the Sea Dart.  For my WHIF version, I grafted 20 mm guns each side of the cockpit, similar to a F-8 Crusader, and put sidewinders on the engine bay.

[rickshaw]

I'd have thought the guns would have been better with their muzzles covered by doors which retracted when they fired.   I was surprised when recently watching the movie "Jet Pilot" to see an F-86 apparently fitted with such doors.  It certainly smoothed the airflow over the fuselage.

[PR19_Kit]

Brave guy even THINKING about the Airmodel Sea Dart! 

I binned mine after weeks of work and frustration, and then found the MAch 2 version, a much more buildable kit even if it does have the usual Mach 2 issues.

[sandiego89]

I will dig out my books tonight to see if I can come up with anything more on weapon placement.  The site in the link below sells diagrams of the operational version of the single engine Sea Dart, which was quite different from the 5 protoypes. Scroll down about half way down on the left side.  

Concur rickshaw that doors over the guns may have been better for airflow and keeping water out.  Besides looking better, I needed the guns to be outwards a little more to clear the cockpit, so I bulged them out.  This area of the prototype Sea Dart is quite narrow, almost strait.  Burried guns behind the cockpit would not clear the cockpit, and the nose strut placement also complicated putting weapons there. Also wanted everything above the waterline for reloading.  I envisioned the hatch behind the cokpit could be used for reloading ammo.  Nose is too small for guns.  

I used the Mach 2 kit.        

http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocair.htm

[kitnut617]

I'd have thought the guns would have been better with their muzzles covered by doors which retracted when they fired.   I was surprised when recently watching the movie "Jet Pilot" to see an F-86 apparently fitted with such doors.  It certainly smoothed the airflow over the fuselage.

There's some photos in the Squadron 'F-86 in Action' book of these aircraft.  Just having a quick read it appears that the very first F-86's had them (designated F-86A-1) but by the time NA got to F-86A-5 (the version that first went into production) these doors had been dumped.  I think I've read somewhere else that the doors froze up sometimes, mostly at the most awkward time ---just when you wanted to fire the guns --- 

[sandiego89]

royabulgaf, I pulled out "CONVAIR DELTA From Sea Dart to Hustler" by Bill Yenne, ISBN 978-1-58007-118-5 and it has a table on page 113 titled: CONVAIR XF2Y-1 (MODEL 2) SPECIFICATIONS it has a section or armament for the prototpyes:

"None, but production aircraft would have had four 20mm cannons, and provisions for 2.75 Folding Fin Aerial Rockets in wingtip pods". No picture sorry. Click on the specifications link below for a scanned PDF.  

So I vote wingtip pods for the rockets, 22 each wing, and cannons mid fuselage.  I considered the placement on my cannons in the post above carefully due to the factors you mentioned of being above the waterline, and low enough to be below the intakes.  Also would be about right for the ammo trays, but placement is still a guess.    

[raafif]

over-wing rocket pods ala EE Lightning ??

[sandiego89]

I think the pod would have to be on top of the wing tip, so sort of like a Lightning overwing pod, but on the tip.  If the pod were part of the wingtip along the main wing line, like a T-33 tip tank or F-89 wingtip pod they would likely get wet. The wingtip of the Sea Dart was touching the water when at rest or slow in the water. 

I think a standard 19 round LAU pod with a frangible nose cone would be close enough to a 22 round launcher.   

A better shot of my guess on the cannon installation.   

[royabulgaf]

Thanks for the help, guys. 

[sandiego89]

Royabulgaf.  Not sure of the quality of the landing gear mounts or skis on the Airmodel version but they look very basic from pictures I have seen. The Mach 2 version were fair.  I was missing a ski so I scratch built the skis from the underside engine nacelles of a cheap 1/72 F-14 snap kit (the complex curve was almost an exact match!).  I used 1/72 F-15 landing gear struts for the main oleo legs. Finally I added a little detail from strene for the rotaing wheels and a brake line from thin wire.  A little detail helped.  

[royabulgaf]

I've decided to go with a generic twin ski prototype, one that didn't have all the yellow stripes.  I have a little better idea how the landing gear bays were constructed, and if I ever do an operational version I will lengthen the fuselage for esthetic reasons.  the real aircraft is tubby looking, and the canopy is too large.  I'll stick with Airmodel though.

[raafif]

I think the pod would have to be on top of the wing tip,  

Yep, this is how I mean -- one mid-wing plus one near the tip moved on top & angled 45deg outboard ?