avatar_Supertom

Tin Wing Harrier!

Started by Supertom, May 10, 2011, 12:41:26 PM

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Taiidantomcat

clearly a rookie at losing model parts... If you need advice on how to lose parts forever i am right here  ;)

really great news!
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Mossie

Woo hoo!  Carry on that man.
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Weaver

Both Tin Wing and Thin Wing would be appropriate actually. The Tin Wing was indeed thinner than the CFC Wing fitted to the AV-8B, the effect being to avoid the 50kt speed penalty incurred by the latter and to allow re-winging of existing AV-8A/GR.3s. The downside was less range, due to both the lower fuel capacity of the Tin/Thin wing and the high cruise efficiency of the CFC Wing's supercritical section.

Essentially, the USMC preferred the CFC Wing because they see the Harrier a primarily a bomb-truck with plenty of other fighters to protect it, while the RAF was keener on the Tin Wing because they'd become interested in exploiting the Harrier's air-to-air potential. In the end, the Treasury chose the CFC Wing on the basis of lower  unit costs from a big produvtion run, with the LERX and Sidewinder pylons added as a low-cost sop to the RAF requirement.

A Tin Wing Sea Harrier would be an interesting aircraft, although I'm not sure if it would fit on Invincible's lifts?
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Supertom

#18
Quote from: Weaver on June 09, 2011, 07:40:34 PM
A Tin Wing Sea Harrier would be an interesting aircraft, although I'm not sure if it would fit on Invincible's lifts?

Wait, how wide were the lifts on Invincible?
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Martin H

Quote from: Supertom on June 10, 2011, 11:13:51 AM
Quote from: Weaver on June 09, 2011, 07:40:34 PM
A Tin Wing Sea Harrier would be an interesting aircraft, although I'm not sure if it would fit on Invincible's lifts?

Wait, how wide were the lifts on Invincible?

This is whif world, the lifts can be made to fit  ;)  :thumbsup:
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experience has taught me to expect the worst.

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Cliffy B

#20
Quote from: Supertom on June 10, 2011, 11:13:51 AM
Quote from: Weaver on June 09, 2011, 07:40:34 PM
A Tin Wing Sea Harrier would be an interesting aircraft, although I'm not sure if it would fit on Invincible's lifts?

Wait, how wide were the lifts on Invincible?

Whiff world not withstanding, Invincible's lifts were 31' 8" x 54' 8" or in metric 9.65m x 16.67m.  That's for RO5.  I take you don't mean the older conventional carrier.

I took the measurements from Norman Friedman's "British Carrier Aviation: The Evolution of this Ships and their Aircraft."

Looks like the wings will be too large by 4 inches on each end  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:  Fold them maybe?  Maybe you could angle the Harrier a bit rather than keep them straight when loading them on the lifts.  That would probably give you the necessary clearance.  I don't know though without actually playing with a scale Harrier and lift.  Its an idea none the less.

Hope that helps.
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Gondor

Quote from: Cliffy B on June 10, 2011, 02:03:50 PM
Quote from: Supertom on June 10, 2011, 11:13:51 AM
Quote from: Weaver on June 09, 2011, 07:40:34 PM
A Tin Wing Sea Harrier would be an interesting aircraft, although I'm not sure if it would fit on Invincible's lifts?

Wait, how wide were the lifts on Invincible?

Whiff world not withstanding, Invincible's lifts were 31' 8" x 54' 8" or in metric 9.65m x 16.67m.  That's for RO5.  I take you don't mean the older conventional carrier.

I took the measurements from Norman Friedman's "British Carrier Aviation: The Evolution of this Ships and their Aircraft."

Looks like the wings will be too large by 4 inches on each end  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:  Fold them maybe?  Maybe you could angle the Harrier a bit rather than keep them straight when loading them on the lifts.  That would probably give you the necessary clearance.  I don't know though without actually playing with a scale Harrier and lift.  Its an idea none the less.

Hope that helps.

Try at an angle rather than taking the wings width and any length and width measurements of the lift. Even better scale out the aircraft's plan view against a scaled plan view of the lift and try to fit the aircraft on the lift at an angle so you can work out the angle it needs to be at to get on the lift. Simpels

Gondor
My Ability to Imagine is only exceeded by my Imagined Abilities

Gondor's Modelling Rule Number Three: Everything will fit perfectly untill you apply glue...

I know it's in a book I have around here somewhere....

Weaver

Ah, lifts - the enemy of many a naval whiff..... ;D

Folding wingtips should be a more than adequate solution, since the Tin Wing's outriggers were inboard like the AV-8B's, with a narrower track than the SHAR's tip-mounted ones. Might have to play with the pylon spacing a bit, but that's doable.  :thumbsup:

Alternately, whiffjitsu the back story to incorporate the RN's 30,000 ton 20-SHAR Harrier-Carriers with deck-edge 35ft lifts....
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones