P39D v Hurricane Mk I

rickshaw · December 01, 2012, 05:42:01 PM

Quote from: NARSES2 on December 01, 2012, 02:16:13 AM
About 30 rounds of 40mm Hank as thats how many 37mm were carried.

Did any other RAF aircraft have 0.5" Brownings in 1940 ? Can't think off hand. There would always be the problem of amunition availabilty as I presume it would need to be shipped across the pond ? Might be better to go with the 40mm (an S gun) and 4 .303" ?

Kittyhawks? The various aircraft taken over directly after the fall of France or were they delivered sans armament to have French guns added when assembled in France?

NARSES2 · December 02, 2012, 01:53:04 AM

Do you mean P.36's mate ? Mohawks in RAF terms.

Off hand I think most US aircraft delivered to France had French radios, gunsights and guns fitted. After the fall of France the UK took over some of the French aircraft orders but these then had to be adapted for the RAF, radios, seat harness, O2 equipment etc. Again as memory serves these all arrived to late for BoB service. Very few aircraft were taken over directly from the French AF and those that were went to second line duties. The Allied Purchasing Commission then British PC ordered an awful lot of stuff but given the US industry was still on a non wartime basis it took a long time to gear up production even without the various bureaucracies involved. US industry in 1940 was a sleeping giant, it didn't really get going to 1941 and then really got going post Dec 1941. We forget that most of those huge orders placed by the French didn't have a cat in hells chance of being manufactured until 1941 at the earliest because of the need to build the factories first. However that didn't matter as the Allies forsaw a WWI style of attrition/positional war. The War would be won in 1942/43.

My own view is that in 1940 US ammunition added unwanted difficulties to the supply chain (think of the Springfield rifles issued to the Home Guard with their 0.3 ammo). By Late 1940 early 41 the initial invasion fears were over and there was time to build stocks.

PR19_Kit · December 02, 2012, 01:42:53 PM

Some of those French ordered P-36s arrived in Liverpool right in the middle of the BoB when their ship was diverted to UK after the fall of France. Some were pressed into service to defend the local area with the French instruments etc. still fitted and just a quick once over of RAF brown/green camo on the upper surfaces, the lower surfaces still in A de l'Air silver and STILL CARRYING FRENCH ROUNDELS!

I built a model of one of them years back, for a cinema model display at the time the 'BoB' film was launched. Of course you can't see that it's different unless you turn it over.

NARSES2 · December 03, 2012, 12:53:54 AM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 02, 2012, 01:42:53 PM
Some of those French ordered P-36s arrived in Liverpool right in the middle of the BoB when their ship was diverted to UK after the fall of France. Some were pressed into service to defend the local area with the French instruments etc. still fitted and just a quick once over of RAF brown/green camo on the upper surfaces, the lower surfaces still in A de l'Air silver and STILL CARRYING FRENCH ROUNDELS!

I built a model of one of them years back, for a cinema model display at the time the 'BoB' film was launched. Of course you can't see that it's different unless you turn it over.

Now I've no idea if you have your tongue firmly in your cheek here Kit

BUT the French equipment was installed in France (AFAIK). Strangely of course most US aircraft intended for the FAA were Anglicised by Blackburn in Lancashire(I think)

PR19_Kit · December 03, 2012, 04:47:49 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on December 03, 2012, 12:53:54 AM
Now I've no idea if you have your tongue firmly in your cheek here Kit BUT the French equipment was installed in France (AFAIK). Strangely of course most US aircraft intended for the FAA were Anglicised by Blackburn in Lancashire(I think)

Actuallly no Chris, there was a photo of one on the ground at Speke in an old Airfix Mag at around the time of the BoB film and you can clearly see the French roundels on the underside off the silver wings, with RAF camo on the upper surfaces. My model has the serial no of the one in the pic.

I'll see if I can dig it out and bring to the next show, we could even put it on the stand anyway. That should get some JMNs going.

Army of One · December 03, 2012, 08:14:26 AM

Kit.....awesome....!!! Many thanks.....any idea of when they were taken....

jcf · December 03, 2012, 11:20:58 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on December 03, 2012, 12:53:54 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 02, 2012, 01:42:53 PM
Some of those French ordered P-36s arrived in Liverpool right in the middle of the BoB when their ship was diverted to UK after the fall of France. Some were pressed into service to defend the local area with the French instruments etc. still fitted and just a quick once over of RAF brown/green camo on the upper surfaces, the lower surfaces still in A de l'Air silver and STILL CARRYING FRENCH ROUNDELS!

Now I've no idea if you have your tongue firmly in your cheek here Kit BUT the French equipment was installed in France (AFAIK). Strangely of course most US aircraft intended for the FAA were Anglicised by Blackburn in Lancashire(I think)

Hi Chris, the Hawk 75s purchased by the French left the Curtiss factory with the French instrumentation,
reversed throttle control and other flight specific components in place. Mission specific equipment
like the guns and radios were installed upon receipt in France.

NARSES2 · December 05, 2012, 01:05:45 AM

Right we think this got locked by accident (I've checked on the Mods board and with Hank)

Thanks for that info Jon. I thought I knew that guns and radios were fitted in France and therefore made an incorrect extrapalation for the rest of the French equipment. - mea culpa $:-\$

I've often thought the French reversed throttle must have caused untold "joy" for allied pilots taking joyrides