Penetration Fighter

Started by KJ_Lesnick, February 14, 2015, 09:10:18 PM

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KJ_Lesnick

The USAF attempted to produce a penetration fighter in the 1940's: They set ridiculous standards expecting a plane with a fully loaded weight under 15,000 pounds and wanted it to be as maneuverable as the bestest bestest interceptors the enemy had.

The XP-83, though an older design, was passed over as a possible escort fighter because of the fact that it was slower, could not climb as well, and was less maneuverable (roll-rate, heavier control-forces) than the P-80.  The plane had fuel slosh problems due to the large quantity of fuel, possibly the layout of the tank (and possibly lack of fuel baffles).  The aircraft also was said to be a little slippery in that it was hard to slow on approach.

Despite all this, it did manage to successfully show that it was possible to produce an aircraft with a high fuel-fraction that was strong enough to withstand specified g-loads imposed upon it; though it's maneuverability wasn't as good as the P-80, it was considered acceptable by the USAAF. 

The XF-88 Voodoo, as I understand it, was lighter when empty, and had a substantially greater speed (and probably climb-rate too): It had a lower maximum altitude than the XP-83 did, as well as the B-47's it might be expected to escort; I'm not sure if it met the 900nm combat radius requirement (it's listed maximum range was 1,510 nm*1) either.

I'm not even certain if the 900 nm radius requirement is enough given the penetration paths the B-29/B-50, and B-47 bombers would take into the (then) USSR at the time, which would either be from Japan, Alaska, and Europe*2 unless there were plans for aerial refueling underway already.

I'm wondering if it would have been possible to produce an airplane with the following characteristics

→ I'm thinking 13,125 OEW*3
→ Internal fuel load of at least 1,150 gallon4
→ Wing-sweep of 35-deg at 25-30% chord
→ Service ceiling of at least 45,000 feet5
→ External tankage to consist of 2 x 200, 2 x 250, or 2 x 300 gallon drop-tanks
→ One of the following engine layouts: 2 x J34, 2 x J35, 2 x J47*6
→ Armament to consist of 4 x 20mm cannon, possibly 2,000 to 4,000 lbs of bombs*7


Footnotes

  • 1: I'm not sure if the range listed is actually a maximum range or a combat-range; I'm not sure if combat range is the same as combat radius/2 (Intuitively, I would assume yes -- but there are lots of counter-intuitive things involving aviation)
  • 2: The B-36 is not mentioned here, but with a maximum range of nearly 10,000 nm, it would be able to cover most all targets in the fUSSR
  • 3: The OEW figure was based on averaging out the XP-83 and XF-88's.
  • 4: 1,150 gallons was the XP-83's fuel-load
  • 5: The early B-47's service ceiling was listed as being around 45,000; later models were listed as higher (I'm not sure if this was a re-designed wing, or engines that were more stable at altitude)
  • 6: The J47 and J35 have about the same overall fuel consumption, both are about the same in diameter, but the J47 has a higher overall thrust, so in terms of SFC and raw power, it's better (Some J47 variants are around 240 pounds heavier)
  • 7: The fuel-tank load would produce a weight of 2,000 to 4,000 pounds about; if used in a secondary fighter-bomber role, this would be practical (even the F-86 had a similar capability if I recall)
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

maxmwill

Wasn't the later XF-90 a penetration fighter, if it had a more  powerful engine installed? I think it  had the J35, and might have benefited from the J47.

KJ_Lesnick

I did some checking: The Lockheed design was using a J34 or J46...
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

Gondor

Quote from: maxmwill on February 18, 2015, 01:53:57 AM
Wasn't the later XF-90 a penetration fighter, if it had a more  powerful engine installed? I think it  had the J35, and might have benefited from the J47.

Not the WD-40?

Gondor
My Ability to Imagine is only exceeded by my Imagined Abilities

Gondor's Modelling Rule Number Three: Everything will fit perfectly untill you apply glue...

I know it's in a book I have around here somewhere....

kerick

Quote from: Gondor on May 09, 2015, 10:37:50 AM
Quote from: maxmwill on February 18, 2015, 01:53:57 AM
Wasn't the later XF-90 a penetration fighter, if it had a more  powerful engine installed? I think it  had the J35, and might have benefited from the J47.

Not the WD-40?

Gondor

Ba dum dum clash!
(drum roll, cymbals) ;D
" Somewhere, between half true, and completely crazy, is a rainbow of nice colours "
Tophe the Wise

KJ_Lesnick

Gondor

QuoteNot the WD-40?
Nope, that would be a penetrating oil; a penetration fighter is a fighter that is designed to escort long-ranged bombers into enemy territory.
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

pyro-manic

Some of my models can be found on my Flickr album >>>HERE<<<

KJ_Lesnick

I'm mostly curious if the idea is a sound one based on the figures I put out.
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.