"Expert question": Is there a reason...

[Dizzyfugu]

...why some late RAF low-viz BAC Lightnings had a darker variation of the scheme instead of the standard Medium Sea Grey/Barkey Grey/Light Aircraft Grey?



vs.



The dark upper tone is Dark Sea Grey, AFAIK, and the waterline was (sometimes) lowered - but several variations exist. The machines were based "at home", not like the Dark Green Lightnings based in Germany that received their special camouflage for low altitude operations.

But does anyone know what's behind the dark grey Lightnings? An experiment? Or an early introduction of the similar, late livery of RAF Tornados and some Jaguars? But I think that was introduced in the Nineties, more or less 10 years later? 

[PR19_Kit]

IIRC the Binbrook Lightning Squadrons, especially the LTF, ran a number of experimental camo programmes in that period.

It's mentioned in at least one of Ian Black's books, but I can't get near mine at the moment, FAR to much junk in the way, sorry. 

[Weaver]

Airfix mag ran a detailed article on this. If I can find it, I'll let you know.

[Weaver]

Hmm, well I've found an article, but I still suspect there's another one that looks at Lightning colours more formally. This one just says that the Binbrook Lightnings wore a wide variety of colours and no two were identical. It seems to have been a large-scale experiment.

[Army of One]

I'll have a look as i remember reading it as well........they have done a few articles on Lightnings.......

[TallEng]

Right I've had a rummage in me books and found "On Target Plus" Profile 13 Which features the E.E. Lightning in world wide service,
from The Aviation Workshop publications LTD (ISBN 1-904643-28-0) From which I've deduced that the "Grey schemes" first started with
a Lightning T.5 XS458/Z from the L.T.F. which was repainted by the St Athens workshops Dark Sea Gray, with Bare metal (aluminum) undersides,
in 1975 this is noted as the first grey Binbrook Lightning.
Anyway it seems that the Repainting of Lightnings into Air Defence type grey schemes began in late 1981 early 1982, the first, the "Barley Grey"
scheme consisted of BS4800 Barley Grey top surfaces and BS381 Light Aircraft Grey undersides, with the demarcation line half way down the fuselage
although variations exist.
The second "Indian Grey Scheme seems to have started some time in 1984, the colours used being Medium Sea Grey upper fuselage and fin, with Barley Grey lower fuselage and Light Aircraft Grey on the under surfaces of the Wings and tailplanes.
N.B as far as I can make out these "Grey" colour schemes were only applied to 5Sqn, 11Sqn and the L.T.F. Lightnings all based at RAF Binbrook.

HTH
Regards
Keith
(Warning: this is what I've surmised from the book; weather its absolutely right I'll leave to others )

[Dizzyfugu]

Thank you very much for your effort so far. I also did some legwork and was amazed by the variety of schemes for "simple" all-grey Lightnings. 

But the reason behind the darker tones with Sea Grey uppers is not given, if I understand correctly? "Indian Scheme" sounds cool, BTW, did not know that designation.

[PR19_Kit]

N.B as far as I can make out these "Grey" colour schemes were only applied to 5Sqn, 11Sqn and the L.T.F. Lightnings all based at RAF Binbrook.

Apart rom the two RAFG Lightning Squadrons, 19 and 92, and 74 Squadron in Singapore, Binbrook the only UK Lightning base during that period.

[Gondor]

My two penny's worth

From "The English Electric Lightning: A comprehensive guide for the modeller" by Richard J. Caruana. SAM Publications Modellers Datafile 7 ISBN 0-9533465-7-9

Chapter 11: Lightning Camouflage and Markings, page 103-106

"There is Grey... and Grey
   For a considerable number of years, the wavy two-tone scheme remained standard for all Lightning units. That is, until a Mr PJ.Barley devised a special grey colour (bearing his name) at the Farnborough Defence Research Establishment. Lightnings were finished in a uniform coating of Light Aircraft Grey overall (BS381 C:627), overpainting all underwing serials. At first, Barley Grey (BS 4800.18 B:21) was applied to the fin and fuselage sides, for three-fourths of the fuselage depth. This colour consisted of the same Light Aircraft Grey with the addition of 5% black. Seen from certain angles, the dividing line between the two colours was almost indiscernible.
   Not long after its introduction, this scheme was slightly modified in that Barley Grey extended only half-way down the fuselage. National markings were reduced in size even further, while their colours were also toned down. Roundels of 12in (30.5cm) diameter were introduced in all six positions, consisting of a Pale Ident Blue in place of the standard Roundel Blue, and Pale Ident Red substituting Roundel Red. These colours began life as special mixes under RDM28A but eventually received BSC numbers, Pale Ident Red being BS 381 C:454 while Pale Ident Blue became BS 381 C:172. Fin flash size was also reduced to 12in (30.5cm) in height, in the pale colours, and repositioned at about mid-chord. Serial numbers, although still 8in high (20cm) digits, were now painted in white; wing walkway and belly tank stripes were also painted white. Unit colour bars were transferred to the fin, usually  carrying the squadron badge in the centre.
   More 'greys' were to find their way onto the lightening during its last few years of service with the introduction of two more low-visibility schemes. The first used Dark Sea Grey (BS 381 C:638) in place of the Barley Grey, covering the upper section of the fuselage sides and fin. Medium Sea Grey (BS 381 C:637) was used for the lower parts of the fuselage, while Light Aircraft Grey (BS 381 C:627) was retained for the undersurfaces of wings and tailplane. A second scheme consisted of Medium Sea Grey (BS 381 C:637) on the upper section of the fuselage sides, Barley Grey (BS 4800.18 B:21) on the lower parts of the fuselage, and Light Aircraft Grey (BS 381 C:627) for the undersurfaces of wings and tailplane. The dividing line between the two fuselage colours varied between a low or mid-fuselage point.
   It is safe to say that Lightening squadrons, proud as they always were of their mounts, were usually quite standard  in their finish within the unit, and when a change came about units responded within a short period of time. The same cannot be said for the last few years of the aircraft in service, as No.5 Squadron in 1986 sported a miscellany of colour schemes: 'AA' was in the light greys with an all-red fin and rudder, 'AH' was in the older grey/green scheme, 'AB' and 'AS' wore a standard light grey scheme, 'AJ' was in the darker greys but with the dividing line at the wing root position, while 'AE', 'AF' and 'AG' had the darker greys but with the low dividing line! Definitely not a case of experimentation, but probably more of economy as the end of the Lightening's days on the front line of the RAF's inventory rolled closer."

There is also a list of equivalent colours listed with names each colour, gives its BS number then adds an FS number. Not added to this post at the moment but can do if requested.

Gondor

[Dizzyfugu]

Thank you very, very much, Gondor! That's already enlighting and offers room for experiments - looking for a livery for my EE P.6/1 build, which will be early Eighties, and now my idea has been confirmed to apply No. 5 Squadron's "AJ" scheme, with Dark Sea Grey upper surfaces and Medium Sea Grey lower fuselage, but a high waterline at the wing root level, so that the difference between the tones is more obvious. Colors will come from the Humbrol range (probably 27, 165 and 166), so no further info needed.

Thank you all for your input and help, highly appreciated! 

[Gondor]

Your welcome Dizzyfugu.

Writing that cost me over £20 as I found that I could not read very easily while at my pc so I needed a lamp then had to buy a bulb for the lamp. The bulb alone cost £6.50 but as it's an LED bulb should according to the labelling, last fifteen years! 

Gondor

[PR19_Kit]

The bulb alone cost £6.50 but as it's an LED bulb should according to the labelling, last fifteen years! 

I'll be waiting for your report in 2031 when it blows, or maybe in July..........

[Dork the kit slayer]

Airfix mag ran a detailed article on this. If I can find it, I'll let you know.

IIRC Scale Aircraft Modelling (Alan Hall days) had a feature article and profiles. I too will dig in the magazine locker.