Luftwaffe Nightfighters using X-4 AAm with ZG 1229 Vampir type guidance

[Stan in YUL]

   Still looking at a Me-262 B night fighter concept and was wondering if there were any attempts to marry  ZG 1229 Vampir type night vision equipment with the X-4 AMM or with the gun sights?  Tia

[rickshaw]

ZG 1229 Vampir was an infantry IR set.  Why would they try and fit it to a flying nightfighter?  Its range would be too short to use.  The X-4 was a purely a visual wire-guided missile which you couldn't use at night.  There were no plans to fit it to the Me262 because it's speed (the missile's) was too slow.   They had only carried out trials on Fw190s before the war ended.

[Stan in YUL]

As the tech was adapted to work on an armoured vehicle it seems reasonable to project a theoretical application to aircraft.  The tank mounted version had a working range ok 1km with increased power relative to the infantry version.

[rickshaw]

As the tech was adapted to work on an armoured vehicle it seems reasonable to project a theoretical application to aircraft.  The tank mounted version had a working range ok 1km with increased power relative to the infantry version.

That was 'cause the tank version mounted a 200w IR search light and for really long range there was a even bigger IR search light on a Sdkfz 251.   There were both active IR - in other words they needed an IR light source which reflected off of objects to enable them to be seen.  That means that you have a nice shiny IR searchlight...

[Dizzyfugu]

There were several "Spanner" devices in Luftwaffe use, an active one, coupled with an IR searchlight, and passive types, but they were only produced in small numbers. There was also the FuG 280 "Kiel Z" from Zeiss, another passive IR target finder. Lead sulfide photocell with amplifier, display on a Braun tube. Range 4 km, weight 42 kg. However, these were IMHO not suited for missile guidance, esp. the passive types - imagine looking at a hot burning tail of a missile and try to make out a target ahead? And probably trying to activel steer the missile at a moving target? While flying an aircraft close enough to take enemy fire? In darkness? Nope. Sounds like a B movie idea to me. 

[Gondor]

Added note to what Dizzy just said. If your using an IR sight to track your target at night or in bad weather and you fire a nice rocket powred missile at the target, the plume of your missile exhaust will probably cause your IR sight to flare making it useless. By flare I mean that it will cause the sensitive sight to become overloaded so all you see it a bright return filling your sight and nothing else.

Gondor

[Stan in YUL]

Thanks gents, so it really is a dead end.  Thanks for the extra info.

[ChernayaAkula]

<...> Sounds like a B movie idea to me. 

Hitler, looking at models of Maus, Ratte, V3 et al on his desk, nodding: "Ja, ich agree..... Let's order 10,000! Der Tommy von't stand a chance!"

[Dizzyfugu]

Well, it's whifworld... What if Germany had invented the fisrt Ir seeker heads for Air-to-air missiles, making the X-4 a "fire and forget" weapon? In Japan there was research underway for IR-self-guided glide bombs that would have been tossed against Allied ships, homing in on their hot steam/funnel/engine? The Spanner sight could then still be used for target identification?

[Gondor]

Well, it's whifworld... What if Germany had invented the first Ir seeker heads for Air-to-air missiles, making the X-4 a "fire and forget" weapon? In Japan there was research underway for IR-self-guided glide bombs that would have been tossed against Allied ships, homing in on their hot steam/funnel/engine? The Spanner sight could then still be used for target identification?

I agree with Dizzy again. We both said what was possible with what was available in the real world. Now if like Dizzy said above and just stretch things a bit you could easily keep the majority as real world, with just a few little things as "experimental" which allows you to do what you want. I always think that if you keep it as close to reality as you can then the more the punter will be unsure if it was real or not. 

Gondor

[Stan in YUL]

Thanks again guys.  Haven't quite hung this one up for good but I don't want to commit  plastic and effort to an entirely ASB cause.