Which Green for RCAF Starfighters

[Leading Observer]

Some of the RCAF CF-104's were pained green overall - but which green?

[Weaver]

According to the Belcher Bits F-104 decal sheet, the green was 503-122 (presume that's a military code). However, he makes the point that in practice, this colour seemd to span the range from dark olive green to dark green.

I suspect that the variability in 503-122 might be down to a 'fragile' pigment that faded fast with sunlight and/or weatheringdue to high-speed flight in rain and dusty air at low altitudes.

EDITS:

According to this website, Canadian-based F-104s were repainted using Canadian produced paints, but European-based ones used Dutch paints, which may also account for slight colour differences. Frustratingly, it doesn't have an entry for the 503-122: https://hedgehoghollow.com/buzz/Colour_Guide/aircraft_clr.html

This is the IPMS Canada site, which explains the colour codes but again, doesn't provide a definitive answer to the green question. It does suggest that the colour is close to RAF Dark Green though. Also, if 503-122 is indeed the right code, then the "1" would imply that it had a gloss finish, the loss of which due to weathering might be another reason for it looking highly variable in photographs: https://www.ipmscanada.com/1989/01/01/ipms-canada-canadian-colours-guide-1989/

Okay laughing my arse off now, because THIS page, also by IPMS Canada, claims that the paint was procured in the UK! I suppose that might be an assumption because the repainting was done in the UK though: it might still have been done with Dutch paints. It does state that: "The CF-104 Green paint sample in the IPMS Canada Canadian Colours Guide (long out of production) is fairly close to FS 34127 or 34098, but maybe these should be just a touch browner to be right on. FS 34088 is also very close, and if you went half-way between this colour and the first two mentioned, you'd be very close": https://www.ipmscanada.com/2002/01/01/cf-104-starfighter-green-colour-scheme/

Here's a reprint of an Eduard paint guide that claims it to be 503-120, and gives model paint equivalents for the colour: https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-104/f-104_profile05.shtml

This review of Kinetic's CF-104 has a lot of great pics and colour guides, and claims the colour as 503-322 (the second "3" indicating a matt finish)!
https://www.themodellingnews.com/2022/10/hands-on-review-kinetics-new-cf-104.html

[Dizzyfugu]

AFAIK, the RCAF's all-over green tone is supposed to be similar to FS 34064 (Dark Green), which sounds and looks quite good to me. Another quoted "almost"-reference is FS 34095 (USMC Green). FS 34172 (Artillery Green) is also rumored to be a reference, but it appears much too bright to me., However, as already mentioned, the appearance of individual aircraft would differ a lot from each other due to weathering.

[PR19_Kit]

I was lucky enough to be at Woodbridge for the 1969 Tiger Meet, which was the occasion when the RCAF stunned everyone by showing up with four of the CF-104s, one of which (#833) was painted in the first ever all over 'Tiger' scheme! The other three were dark green, each one a different shade as I recall!

Somewhere I have some 35 mm slides of the event, but sadly I doubt I'll ever find them in my shambles of a house. One or two of them showed #833 alongside one of its green mates, but I doubt I've got a pic of all four of them.

Later I built a model of #833 (from the awful first Hasegawa F-104 kit....) and hand painted the entire aircraft, including the tigers on the nose (and they're both different...). For some reason I don't have a pic of of it anywhere, but it's lurking in this one.

You cannot view this attachment.

[Pellson]

Having looked at the CF-104 from the RNoAF perspective (the Norwegians kept their CF-104's in the colour they got them), which green they actually used seems to be a mystery. So far, I've collected seven different F.S call-outs, namely:
34064
34079
34088
34095
34098
34127
34172

Looking them up, they differ quite substantially, so not much of a guidance there.

However, the newly restored Norwegian CF-104D is a rather well documented aircraft, and looking at whatever in-service footage I can find, the restoration seems rather trustworthy. I would judge the hue to be rather brown, so pretty close to Revells 146 NATO Olive. But that's just me.





I guess any green you like will work. You can always claim that's the paint they had on the shelf the day they painted your machine..

[PR19_Kit]

Green does seem rather prone to fading, so maybe it can be any shade you feel like. 

[Dizzyfugu]

I would judge the hue to be rather brown, so pretty close to Revells 146 NATO Olive. But that's just me.

Good call. Humbrol's OOP 108 might have been a good 8slightly darker) alternative, too. That RNoAF trainer really looks as if it carried an olive drab tone - less greenish than the RCAF Starfighters? Hard to tell, though...   

[Lord_Voyager]

As a Canadian that's done a lot of CF-104's, I think German late-wars colors from AK seem right. RLM80 or RLM82 It's hard to pin down but checking versus the ones I've seen/checked personally, it's a good starting point.

Go online and check out Belcher Bits. Canadian resin caster that does decals... He has that color identified.

[Leading Observer]

Thanks guys - the consensus seems to be "which ever shade of dark green you have to hand"

[Gondor]

How about THIS which while it dosen't have the exact number, it does have the two before it which sort of shows a trend. 

Gondor

[Lord_Voyager]

AK Interactive RLM 80 - https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mapleairbrushsupplies.com%2Fproducts%2Fak-interactive-real-colors-rlm-80&psig=AOvVaw3n-j4rYPUqFKfwpZxU5Zc_&ust=1680629822174000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCJjZmo6gjv4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

[Weaver]

Green does seem rather prone to fading, so maybe it can be any shade you feel like. 

If you look at online photos, you can see several shades of green on the same aircraft!