Radar in Freightdog Conversion set?

Gondor · January 20, 2024, 09:13:56 AM

So I have the Radar in the Freightdog Conversion set for the Interceptor version and I want to add detail to the backstory I am writing for the build I am going to do with it. Yes I know that some people will say the TSR.2 would be a terrible interceptor, just be sure that you understand what the word means, it does not mean that the aircraft is a turning dog-fighter. As an aircraft to carry missiles to shoot down attacking aircraft it could do that, manoeuvre at altitude effectively, not very well but it didn't have to. Anyway, that's all beside the point.
I havve been spending ages on the "net" trying to track down something that would enable me to come up with a designation for the radar in the set. Going by Damien's book, the radar was to be developed by Ferranti, other than that I have no idea. It's probably too late to have a Rainbow Code and I dont think it would fall in the Airborne Interception radar list either, so I thought why not ask here.
Any ideas anyone?

Gondor

scooter · January 20, 2024, 09:24:55 AM

Why not just go with the AI.23? Especially since it was developed into AIRPASS II.

Gondor · January 20, 2024, 10:23:13 AM

Quote from: scooter on January 20, 2024, 09:24:55 AMWhy not just go with the AI.23? Especially since it was developed into AIRPASS II.

Because the radar in question looks like this which is a Sideways Looking Radar and as such is too radical a change to use the same base number of AI.23.

Gondor

Pellson · January 20, 2024, 12:20:21 PM

Quote from: Gondor on January 20, 2024, 10:23:13 AM
Quote from: scooter on January 20, 2024, 09:24:55 AMWhy not just go with the AI.23? Especially since it was developed into AIRPASS II.

Because the radar in question looks like this which is a Sideways Looking Radar and as such is too radical a change to use the same base number of AI.23.

Gondor

Those radar red tops..

From a technical point of view, it looks quite unrealistic to expect that radar to target a SARH missile. It looks more like a fast AEW concept than an interceptor, the TSR.2 flying high and fast in a long race course pattern, transmitting target data to other interceptors with nose mounted FC radars.

The Wooksta! · January 20, 2024, 12:27:26 PM

Given the shape of the radar, Blue Beam, White Domino?

Gondor · January 20, 2024, 02:22:13 PM

Quote from: The Wooksta! on January 20, 2024, 12:27:26 PMGiven the shape of the radar, Blue Beam, White Domino?

Nice idea Lee but as I said in the first post it was probably too late for a Rainbow code, they finnished in 1958

"The Rainbow Codes were a series of code names used to disguise the nature of various British military research projects. They were mainly used by the Ministry of Supply from the end of the Second World War until 1958, when the ministry was broken up and its functions distributed among the forces. The codes were replaced by an alphanumeric code system. " from Wikipedia.

I am tempted by a Rainbow Code though, and although your suggestions are somewhat descriptive Lee, they just don't do it for me.

Gondor

Weaver · January 20, 2024, 06:05:09 PM

Although official rainbow codes ended in 1958, pseudo-rainbow-codes, used as marketing names or service in-jokes persisted for a couple of decades afterwards. Ferranti's Blue Fox radar for the Sea Harrier was officially named after an actual species of fox, but unofficially, it was chosen because it sounded like a rainbow code. Blue Circle (cement ballast in place of radars in Tornado F.2s) and Red Slab (red-painted steel slabs in place of the radar on the restored Vulcan) are just two examples of the jokes.

So it's credible to suggest that Ferranti might choose a marketing name for the TSR.2 radar that "just happens" to sound like a rainbow code.

Given the shape of it, my first thought was "Blue Canoe".

In terms of AI numbers, surely it would have just taken the next number after AI.23, i.e. AI.24. Then Marconi's Foxhunter (for the Tornado) would have been AI.25, if it had been developed at all.

Gondor · January 21, 2024, 01:55:31 AM

Thank you Weaver. I did read that but I did want to nail it down to something specific, however your suggestion of "Blue Canoe" sounds so good I will go with that.

Now I wonder if we can get Colin to change the instructions to that

Weaver · January 21, 2024, 10:38:54 AM

Quote from: Gondor on January 21, 2024, 01:55:31 AMThank you Weaver. I did read that but I did want to nail it down to something specific, however your suggestion of "Blue Canoe" sounds so good I will go with that.

Now I wonder if we can get Colin to change the instructions to that

Excellent!

I have zero intention of ever building the TSR.2 interceptor, so it's nice to know the idea will get an airing.

Devilfish · January 21, 2024, 10:22:50 PM

Quote from: scooter on January 20, 2024, 09:24:55 AMWhy not just go with the AI.23? Especially since it was developed into AIRPASS II.

That's the TFR, not the AI radar

Gondor · January 22, 2024, 02:19:37 AM

Quote from: Devilfish on January 21, 2024, 10:22:50 PM
Quote from: scooter on January 20, 2024, 09:24:55 AMWhy not just go with the AI.23? Especially since it was developed into AIRPASS II.

That's the TFR, not the AI radar

The A.I. 23 is the radar fitted to the Lightning. To fit something similar to the TSR.2 you need to put a bigger radome onto it which involves a heck of a lot of work and almost a whole new front end for it to fit onto.

Gondor

Devilfish · January 22, 2024, 04:40:40 AM

Quote from: Gondor on January 22, 2024, 02:19:37 AM
Quote from: Devilfish on January 21, 2024, 10:22:50 PM
Quote from: scooter on January 20, 2024, 09:24:55 AMWhy not just go with the AI.23? Especially since it was developed into AIRPASS II.

That's the TFR, not the AI radar

AI23 was at that point, quite old, so it's highly likely they would have, at the very least, updated it, or more likely start from scratch (Blue Fox?) or even bought something in.....

The A.I. 23 is the radar fitted to the Lightning. To fit something similar to the TSR.2 you need to put a bigger radome onto it which involves a heck of a lot of work and almost a whole new front end for it to fit onto.

Gondor

Gondor · January 22, 2024, 05:17:25 AM

Dose not change anything about it's size.

Gondor

Devilfish · January 22, 2024, 10:02:32 PM

Quote from: Gondor on January 22, 2024, 05:17:25 AMDose not change anything about it's size.

Gondor

No, I'm just saying, it was old, and pretty terrible technology. It had valves and needed time to warm up, and induced a lot of noise, so the picture and range weren't that great. I've heard Lightning pilots say that the mk1 eyeball was often better, lol
By the time they got around to developing an interceptor version of the TSR2, it would have been the 70's, so it's more likely they would have chosen something else.

Gondor · January 23, 2024, 12:02:55 AM

Oh yeah, transistors

. Nothing to do with the size of the radar dish needed to do the same job at that time, and not much in that respect has changed to date. Sure you now have stearable radar beams, an ability to track multiple targets at the same time and more powerful in terms of output power. Still doesn't change the size much of the actual radar antenna.

Gondor