German Landing Craft

[tigercat]

Having just read C S Foresters Alt History short story about Hitler invading England  Iwas wondering if Operation Sea Lion had occured did the Nazis have enough landing craft or were they too reliant on comandeered barges and what would that have meant for unloading vehicles and equipment nd what would it have meant for Germany's economy if a significant number were wiped out in the attempt.

[jcf]

Short answer: in 1940 they had no purpose built landing craft and yes, they would have had to use barges etc.

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/landingcrafts/index.html

[rickshaw]

By 1941 however they did have the very capable "F-Lighters" which were usually adapted to be a sort of gun boat and/or FlaK barge for use in shallow waters.   Many a Coastal Command pilot would recount with a shudder their encounters with them in a coastal convoy.   





They also built the Siebel Ferries, used on the crossing to North Africa from Italy.  These often boasted multiple FlaK towers, armed extensively with assorted light FlaK guns or heavier guns up to 8.8cm in calibre:







This page - unfortunately in German - details the Siebel Ferries:

http://historisches-marinearchiv.de/siebelfaehre/beschreibung.php

And this pag, again in German, the other infantry landing craft that the Kreigsmarine utilised:

http://historisches-marinearchiv.de/infanterietransporter/beschreibung.php

[raafif]

Hitler never wanted to fight Britain so never planned to cross the Channel -- but whatif he planned England to be next after France/Belguim with Denmark/Norway later & disregarded Russia (Molotov Pact) ?
Surely then he would have adequate landing-craft ready, presuming that Goring kept bombing the radar & fighter stations instead of slacking off, thus winning the Battle of Britain.....

Germany started design of the LWS in 1936 & continued testing until 1941.  The LWS was used in some Nth African landings (from landing-craft) so in our whif-world they could have been mass-produced earlier for SeaLion ?
They also designed 2 types of amphibious trailer, 10-tonne (to carry Pz-II & halftracks) & 20-tonne (to carry Pz-IV).  At least one 10-tonne plus an armoured version of it were built (see below).

Germany built two 8x8 trucks in 1940 & in 1941 gave them boat-bodies making them into a DUKW-type vehicle -- 2 more were later built -- again, earlier Whiff mass-production ? ....
We must presume very good weather for the use of all these vehicles tho as the Channel can get very rough.

America used 1-ton & 2½-ton amphibious trailers in the Pacific, photos show them beside DUKWs.

[rickshaw]

The real determinant of the success of Sea Lowe was the number of minesweepers versus the number of layers.  The RN always had more sweepers than the Germans had layers.  Which meant they could open paths in minefields faster than the layers could close them.  Without sufficient mines to impede the RN's ships, it didn't matter whether they had real landing craft or converted barges.  They'd all have ended up sunk anyway, once the Home Fleet and the destroyers got in amongst them.

[tigercat]

with a huge knockon effect on the German economy as tuhose barges wouldn't be shipping grain or coal etc

[dy031101]

I've got an awful sense of scale, so bear it with me......

Does anyone know: of all the landing craft and/or barges available to Germany, which one is the smallest that can carry a 251/1 halftrack to the shore?

Thanks in advance.

[Old Wombat]

The real determinant of the success of Sea Lowe was the number of minesweepers versus the number of layers.  The RN always had more sweepers than the Germans had layers.  Which meant they could open paths in minefields faster than the layers could close them.  Without sufficient mines to impede the RN's ships, it didn't matter whether they had real landing craft or converted barges.  They'd all have ended up sunk anyway, once the Home Fleet and the destroyers got in amongst them.

Although, given the RN's early-war history when it encountered aircraft & the total lack of unified response to sudden events (as demonstrated by the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau debacle), it may well have led to the destruction of the Home Fleet.

[rickshaw]

The real determinant of the success of Sea Lowe was the number of minesweepers versus the number of layers.  The RN always had more sweepers than the Germans had layers.  Which meant they could open paths in minefields faster than the layers could close them.  Without sufficient mines to impede the RN's ships, it didn't matter whether they had real landing craft or converted barges.  They'd all have ended up sunk anyway, once the Home Fleet and the destroyers got in amongst them.

Although, given the RN's early-war history when it encountered aircraft & the total lack of unified response to sudden events (as demonstrated by the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau debacle), it may well have led to the destruction of the Home Fleet.

Possibly true but as this was to be the decisive battle one would hope that the RN would be both better prepared and respond better than they did on those occasions.  They would also have had considerably more warning.  SIGINT and Aerial Reconnaissance of the harbours would tell them that it was about to happen.  ULTRA might have been able to warn them as to the actual date.   There is no way the Germans could have kept it secret and they had no plans and made no effort at deception.

The problem for the Germans is to stop the RN from interfering.  The problem for the RN is to interfere sufficiently to make the Germans lose.  I don't doubt that the RN would suffer some dreadful losses.  One only has to see Crete to see that but at the same time I don't doubt the RN would live up to both expectations and tradition.  "England Expects" would be the order of the day and the Lords of the Admiralty would do their damnedest to deliver.  As would the commanders and crews of the ships involved.  The Germans OTOH were rather half-hearted and never really understood the requirements of the operation and were very unprepared for what was needed to pull it off successfully.

The result would have been a bloody melee but like Crete, the ad hoc nature of the German effort would have told against them while the determination of the RN to prevent it from working would have made damn sure it didn't work.