HMS Queen Elizabeth CVA-01

[Freightdog862]

Help ! Having seen a recent post giving a link to a site on HMS Queen Elizabeth CVN-01 that never was, I'm trying to sneak another decal option on the Freightdog P177N sheet, 807 sqn onboard CVN-01 early 70's (a what-if aircraft on a what-if aircraft carrier!!). Now I need help from a knowledgable navy type, according to http://navy-matters.beedall.com/cva01.htm, CVA01's 'pennant number' could have been 'R', is this same as a ship code and would CVN-01 have replaced Ark Royal and then used the same code? Thorvic or anyone else who knows please help!!  
Colin - Freightdog Models

   

[Geoff_B]

Hi Colin

The R is for the Pennat number, All aircraft carrier begin with R Hermes was R12 with H as the ID letter, Eagle was R05 and her ID letter was E. Ark Royal IV was R09 and her ID was R

Its quite possible that the Pennent number for CVA01 would have been R01 and her Sister Ship R02. As for ID letters i would guess that Q would have been used to avoid the conflict with Eagle who was expected to be still in Service with maybe D for the Duke of Edinburgh.

Cheers

Geoff

[GeorgeC]

The R? on the site refers to the ship's pennant number, eg R05 or R12, which can be seen painted on the side of the island.  All fleet carriers after the 1938 Illustrious have had R numbers, although wartime escort carriers used D numbers, and now all 'aviation' ships in the RN use this code.  A good list is at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Airc..._United_Kingdom
The pennant numbers have taken on a bit of a life of their own, with numbers being reused by later ships.

The deck numbers - painted in large, friendly letters aft on the flight deck, became a logical series in 1958, with O for Ocean, A for Albion, B for Bulwark, V for Victorious, H for Hermes, E for Eagle and R for aRk Royal (oops 2 ships beginning with A!).  Later aviation ships have carried this on - N for iNvincible, L for iLlustrious (2 x I), R for aRk Royal (because the last one was an R), and O for Ocean.

The CVA01 would not have used the same pennants or flight deck nos as an existing ship.  After all the time as CVA01, and as the first carrier laid down of over 20 years, perhaps R01 would have been a good no.  Q might be more likely than Eagles 'E' given that the QE would have probably Victorious if the RN maintained a 4-carrier fleet, but might replaced Eagle if cost reductions forced a 3-carrier fleet and the early retirement of Victorious.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't have thought 807 was a likely number for a NAS, by the mid 60's the FAA FJ fleet was 800, 801, 803 & 809 Sqns using Buccaneers and 890, 892, 893 and 899 using Sea Vixen. On the other hand, if you are producing a 1/72nd SR177 you can put it in VF-1 colours and it will be fine by me          

[GeorgeC]

Geoff types faster than me...

[Zen]

Hmmm there was a 700 number Squaderon using the Scimitar was'nt there? Motto "Swift to Kill" with a Tiger's face as their emblem, but I foget the number proper.

[gengriz]

The pennant numbers for CVA 01 would have been agreed at the Ships Names & Badges Committee (chaired by the Commodore Naval Ship Acceptance on behalf of the Controller of the Navy) at the same time as the names and would have to fit within standard NATO Pennant allocations.  

However, I am not 100% certain that the names were firm - for example another ARK (Tailcode R or O) would be a strong possibility (e.g. current ARK was originally an IN (INDOMITABLE I think), but renamed once the previous ARK payed off).  Bear in mind too that the previous ARK was planned to pay off long before EAGLE, but was extended because of a fire & grounding in EAGLE that forced her early retirement.

To be absolutely certain, you could make a simple FOI enquiry of the MOD via their website and get a definitive answer - once you ask, they have 20 days to answer under UK law, alternatively you could ask the FAA Museum to investigate.  That said, Beedall's site is very good (and spookily correct on current issues)

As for 807 and an SR 177 - too early for the CVA in my opinion; a late (converted/updated) Gibraltar or Malta Class carrier is a much more exciting SR177 Whiff prospect, but remember to include the (permanently attached) RFA to supply sufficient fuel to fly them.  

If you want to do a CVA air wing, then Beedall is a good source, but Jaguar Ms (my next project) Sea Lightnings (last Xmas' project) and P1154s (I have a Project X one, but hate vacuforms) are a good bet, although pragmatism suggests that Phantoms (yeeuch), A-7K Corsairs, F-8K Crusaders or A-6K Intruders are more realistic (affordable) candidates - this was the 1970s after all and we were distinctly broke.

[GeorgeC]

I don't think FOI would work for this as I believe the documents have been released to the National Archive and so you would be invited to research it yourself.

[Zen]

SR.177 was expected to enter service in 1962. So it would certainly be expected to serve on CVA-01.

CVA-01's Whiff airwing optins obviously inlclude the OR346 machines, leading contenders being the BAC Type 590 and the HSA DH.127.

The 'far out machines' would be the Hypersonic successor to the Lightning EE expected to develope from the P.42 research work.

Navalised AFVG and UKVG are also options along with a navalised Tornado.

P150 supersonic Buccaneer development is another contender.

[P1127]

Deck Numbers were not always logical! Ark Royal had 'O' for much of here early service.

Pennant nUmbers were allocated within a band from NATO (Note both Spanish and Italian carriers carry 'R' numbers) - I suspect that the RN had R01 to R20, but can't confirm that.

Ark Royal IV was R09, but Ark V became R07 (I beleive she was briefly painted as 'R09') - former Navy Minister Keith Speed regarded  having 'R' numbers rather than 'C' numbersallocated to the CVS fleet a personal triumph, as it confirmed the ships to be the previously politically unacceptable aircraft carriers rather than cruisers

[Freightdog862]

Thanks for the info, I'm learning more with every post! The decal sheet will include a selection of markings (803, 807, 894 NAS) and shipcodes Q, R and C, so people can mix and match as required and use the spares on any further projects of the weird and wonderful.....
Colin - Freightdog Models